Spiral Knights - Energy is not bad

Energy is not bad

17 replies [Last post]

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 15:54

chibikalak

Legacy Username

So, I decided to do an experiment for naysayers. These were my assets going into a Tier 2 run
341 energy
794 crowns

And this is what I had coming out.
265 energy
7508 crowns

I used 76 energy, and now I have more than enough to buy 100 new energy.

So, yes, you don't make this much in Tier 1 (for noobs), but as Tier 1 I remember being willing to not play it as much. This notion that the economy is suppressing isn't quite true. The more I played, the more it picked up and I became self-sufficient. So please, no more whining.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 15:57

zangets00

Legacy Username

Revealing this only increases

Revealing this only increases the prices by the way, just keep it on the down low slow down price increase and leave the whiners alone and let them whine.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 16:07

Datareaper

Did you generate some crowns

Did you generate some crowns from selling some materials?
Because I have an incredibly hard time selling stuff for lower prices then theyre generally worth. It just feels like people dont need anything.
I think yesterday I sold one iron gear? Despite multiple 10-15 minute breaks between dives to try and sell stuff.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 16:53

chibikalak

Legacy Username

No, this is right before

No, this is right before going into T2, and right after coming out. I didn't even sell any minerals.
I would also like to point out that the money I made is 1.5x the amount needed for energy. So do this twice and you'll have a little extra for crafting/more money.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 16:57

TriviaKnight

Legacy Username

And you don't think CE

And you don't think CE sellers realize this, and are going to raise the price to compensate, leaving newbies even deeper in the pit? You seriously don't even get what the problem is.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 16:59

Silino

Legacy Username

HAX

Chib probably got 2 treasure vaults and the jellyboss.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 17:38

chibikalak

Legacy Username

No jellyboss, 1 treasure

No jellyboss, 1 treasure vault.
Also, as I said before, I was okay playing just an hour or so a day towards the beginning, and I was hooked enough. That only lasted for about 2 or 3 days before I was in self-sustaining mode. All this garbage about hurting newbies just is such a small time frame that I hardly think people will quit over it. In the absolute most horrible scenario, if they are a kid and can't charge a paypal account, they can tape three quarters to a piece of paper and mail it in. OOO will accept that.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 17:55

TriviaKnight

Legacy Username

Do you not understand that we

Do you not understand that we are not just talking about the game as it is now, but about its future?

Do the math. As more and more players do what you did, more and more crowns will keep coming onto the market, raising the price of energy to match the average amount of disposable crowns in the coffers of the majority of the players. More people at the top means higher prices for everyone. It will become tougher for you to continue to be self-sustainable, but that's not even close to how tough it will be for new players to reach that plateau. It's already tougher now than it was a couple of days ago, and as the game progresses that "2 or 3 days" it took you is going to keep widening.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 19:01

Khaim

Legacy Username

TriviaKnight : "And you don't

TriviaKnight : "And you don't think CE sellers realize this, and are going to raise the price to compensate, leaving newbies even deeper in the pit? You seriously don't even get what the problem is."

So the CE price stabilizes higher up. So what? Newbies are going to play out of their mist energy anyways. If they want to get to T2 faster, they'll buy CE with cash. That is a good thing.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 19:43

chibikalak

Legacy Username

http://forums.spiralknights.c

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/4787

I just found this as supporting evidence.

@Trivia Knight: Games are set up in a way where money generally disappears. We spend big chunks of money at a time buying recipes (or I do, anyway) from Basil or the girl in the Bazaar. Money doesn't just come into the game and then stay there. Now, granted, that's not a ton of money at once, but it does disappear.

Edit: I was about to make another post about energy, but I can't bring myself to say "stabilize." I'm done with this argument.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 20:02

#10

Hassohappa

Legacy Username

Silino, treasure vaults and

Silino, treasure vaults and the jelly boss are not good floors to get crowns on anyway. Perhaps if you paid more attention to where you money was coming from you'd have an easier time getting it.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 20:09

#11

Shani

Legacy Username

Specifically, arenas and

Specifically, arenas and graveyards. Or clockwork tunnels if you do the challenge room.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 20:24

#12

Raul

So the CE price stabilizes

So the CE price stabilizes higher up. So what? Newbies are going to play out of their mist energy anyways. If they want to get to T2 faster, they'll buy CE with cash. That is a good thing.

Actually, no that's not a good thing. If players feel they have to pay on a game that is marketed as a free to play game, they won't stand for it and will leave. Some will pay, most will leave.

Forcing your consumer to pay for something is completely different then enticing them to do such.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 20:29

#13

dreampod

Legacy Username

Khaim "So the CE price

Khaim "So the CE price stabilizes higher up. So what? Newbies are going to play out of their mist energy anyways. If they want to get to T2 faster, they'll buy CE with cash. That is a good thing."

Newbies have minimal attachment to the game because they haven't made friends or had a real chance to experience its fun yet. Rather than pay money they are much more likely to move on to a different game that isn't (as I was told today) 'a stupid korean scam'. It is much better to monetize the longer term and higher level players rather than the new players. The fact that you can more or less sustain (until prices continue to rise) at Tier 2 and 3 but not at Tier 1 is a fundamental flaw in this game because it makes it reliant on a constantly growing playerbase to fund it while simultaneously driving those new players away.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 20:43

#14

Leviathan

Legacy Username

"If players feel they have to

"If players feel they have to pay on a game that is marketed as a free to play game, they won't stand for it and will leave."

That's right.

Some of those people will leave this game.

But, and this is the important bit: The game will not normally be harmed by their absence. They aren't actual customers. If they all departed (which they won't), and the paying players stayed on, Three Rings could replace the present contribution to the economy made by the free players with a few lines of code that say "always give at least 2k crowns for 100 CE."

They might, potentially, be helpful, awesome people, assets to the community, bringing in their friends and talking up how good the game is, willing to help out others with good advice, with useful, well-formatted and concise feedback for Three Rings. And in such cases, Three Rings might actually lose a little something by their departure.

But, as the most visible example of someone threatening to depart, do you think that you are seen as any of those things? Are you a helpful, awesome, asset to the community? Do you believe that your behavior here is making the Three Rings staffers that occasionally wander past these boards go "Man, we gotta make sure we hang on to people like him"?

You've taken on, for yourself, the job of representing people whose ongoing free play is getting squeezed. How do you think you're doing?

(EDIT: After rereading that, I felt I should note: Those are actual questions, not mean as snide quips. I have no clue how well you think you're doing at this thing you've decided to do.)

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 21:26

#15

dreampod

Legacy Username

The general idea behind

The general idea behind having a free to play game is that it lowers the barriers to entry and you convert those free players to paying players once they are hooked and want to play more or have all the extras. Additionally large playerbases are an appealing draw for others to join (nothing says successful and fun like popularity) and generate additional social cohesion which makes player retention easier (you don't have players dropping the game because they don't have much time this month and don't want to pay a subscription they aren't using but can still hang out with their guild).

Currently the game is very hard to get into if you aren't paying from the beginning which negates the low barrier to entry and thus prevents players from getting hooked. Worse yet is the fact that early adopters/high Tier players are always going to be able to outbid for CE (because they earn so much more and have no money sinks) so you can't conceivably advance at a reasonable pace without paying. This makes Spiral Knights a pay-to-play game that is masquerading as free-to-play but without the benefits of a pay-to-play game and all the drawbacks of a free-to-play. Simply, it is a fundamentally flawed business plan. Without long term sinks for crowns with higher Tier players, newer players will never be able to afford to compete to buy CE for crowns and thus must pay from day 1.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 21:30

#16

spookas

Legacy Username

whoa

Leviathan = best post.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 23:02

#17

Hassohappa

Legacy Username

Just as a quick update I just

Just as a quick update I just ran the new dungeon's first tier and got 4287 crowns for 64 energy. That's more than enough to still turn a profit before even factoring things like converting primal tokens into trinkets for 240 crowns a token or selling your materials. It also ignores that you can hit tier 2 in about 2 and a half days if you are of a mind to.

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Energy is not bad