So the devs know that we do not want Shadowsun to stay piercing. We want it to be shadow defense.
If toothpicks are overpowered, tell them to nerf toothpicks. Not nerf our armor's usefulness in PvE just so you can partially cope with toothpicks.
This is a PvE oriented game.
I must say, i feel like the victim of a bait-and-switch.
After spending months looking for a Max Poison UV Gunslinger and Hat , i was finally able to craft a Shadowsun Set that wasn't completely hampered by it's deficiencies.
It took me a while, but i finally had a set with pierce defense that i was very fond of. Now that's all out the window.
And i'm left without a pierce armor and forced to buy a different set.
Bait Advertising as defined by the Federal Trade Commision.
"Sec. 238.2 Initial offer.
(a) No statement or illustration should be used in any advertisement which creates a false impression of the grade, quality, make, value, currency of model, size, color, usability, or origin of the product offered, or which may otherwise misrepresent the product in such a manner that later, on disclosure of the true facts, the purchaser may be switched from the advertised product to another."
I paid upwards of 6000-7000 CE to find the Max UV's, buy the recipes, and craft the items to make and fix the item that they inititally advertised as part of the game and now OOO's decides to change the item and force me to spend more CE :(
I can sympathise with poetry to an extent as I waited for and bought a matching set of sash & hat with med pierce UV's looking to complement shadowsun's existing defences as I wanted a piercing set for both guns and a hybrid load out. And now the armour i made for its piercing defence / dmg bonus / look is not as nearly as useful too me due to already owning 3 separate shadow sets (+ mismatched pierce UV's too add salt to the wound).
I have no problem with the set being brought in line and balanced and applaud this, however i find changing the basic defence stat of any item (no matter if that is more in tune with its name) a pretty big deal for those who bought it and crafted it for what it was. I like poetry felt like I’ve been left out in the cold as our investments have suddenly changed.
Well at least we have an arguement other than "Lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown toothpicks r op!"
I am considering it both bad and good now.
@Aquillion, the pierce def. UVs can come in handy in concrete jungles (toxigels), and in FSC (Oilers) to be useful still.
@Rawrcake, Thanks for the measured reply im trying to see the positive, since poetry's max poison UV's are an even bigger blow. However i just have that sinking feeling that i own yet another shadow armor which if i wanted i would have chosen deadshot.
I see shadowsun being used for max gun damage performance etc. and not just as a shadow damage armor.
Being med damage to everything, you can pair it with 2 damage trinkets, then throw on an ASI med piece. Which is max damage, and med ASI without a swiftstrike and without an ASI UV.
What does this mean? Don't entirely fret Poetry :3
You might just be slappin in one piece of shadowsun given my above scenario. Having a poison max UV on a poison resistance giving piece when you are wearing only one is not an entire waste.
I'm mostly concerned with the loss of the Pierce defense; as much as i hate having spent all of that CE on the Max UVs, i think it's an even bigger loss to have my only pierce set taken away.
I'm not even a gunner, which is the reason i haven't commented on the bonus changes.
I'm a swordsman and a dancer and i tend to go without blocking for long stretches at a time, so when i'm going up against T3+ pierce damage, it's nice to know that i don't have to change my fighting style, and i can go without blocking if i don't want to.
Get skolver. No, really. It has a sword damage bonus for you.
From a gunner point of view, you can now finally get vh damage and vh asi, with just one armour set and 2 trinkets. You can also default back to justifier and 2 trueshots.
I would venture that poetry's main problem and mine (the one you missed) is this all costs CE and by having to make a new set or trinkets becasue the one we made no longer works in the same way is extremly frustrating. Especially when your working with the kind of lvl's of CE Poetry is.
The dmg bonus and resistance amendments could have all been made (and should be made) without necessarily changing the core defence of the armour is my point.
That was already possible, I was thinking more of Swiftstrike + Seerus mask + Shadowsun + two damage modules.
You get VH asi, vh ctr, and max damage.
Imo, that's better then vh damage and vh asi.
How about the gunner who want a shadow set with real gun bonus? They want a shadow set they can use against devilites, without relying on uv for bonuses. I see more good than bad in this change, and the reasons Poetry gave out was not good enough. A swordsmen using gunslinger armour for a defence that can be provided by a wolver set, with more bonus to his arsenal.
Ranger, you're right. That gives more bonuses than the sets I mentioned. But seerus is p2p content, or at least steam required for f2p. So those sets are completely viable for people with no access to seerus.
This is me not thinking about buying a P M of S.
No rlly.
"Get skolver. No, really. It has a sword damage bonus for you."
I don't want a Skolver set :(
I only wear Grey Feather sets (and my Shadowsun set for Pierce damage).
"I see more good than bad in this change, and the reasons Poetry gave out was not good enough. A swordsmen using gunslinger armour for a defence that can be provided by a wolver set, with more bonus to his arsenal."
Haters gonna Hate :(
Well, I have absolutely no sympathy for you. Gunner gear is for gunners.
I'm not hating. What about the gunslingers who want a shadow armour? But take it as you will.
Get Skolver, use Grey Feather or Shadowsun as costume, you can wear your preferred set and get a nice bonus as much as it pains me to suggest a Wolver line set for someone. Although I wouldn't mind seeing one more gunner out there. (Polaris + Nitronome + Corner = Winnar!). To me, you sound like a hipster
@ demonicsothe, deadshot already exists and its getting buff'd too (actually has a gun buff) so now instead of 2 gunner piercing sets its 2 shadow.
swings and roundabouts.
will always seem an unwarranted change to me
@Poetry, you feel exactly the same as I do. I've beefed up my shadowsun for pvp, and now it'll be less capable. I would like to have a buff (damage med) but not a whole property change.
and thanks for knowing the law, it'll be easier to file a lawsuit against OOO if they really go ahead with this.
"and thanks for knowing the law, it'll be easier to file a lawsuit against OOO if they really go ahead with this."
I don't point it out to pursue any legal matters, i'm simply commenting on how even the Federal Trade Commission considers it shady when a company does that.
It's just a shame that we spent time, effort and currency to get something we wanted, only to have it exchanged for something we don't want. That's all i'm pointing out.
But in the end, we all lose out, so i guess it doesn't really matter:
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@ Demonicsothe
"I'm not hating."
I know, i'm just being facetious :P
oh wow, gotta start reading every line of the TOS starting from now on... guess since we want to play this game, we have no choice but to get suckered by their fancies.
"Just cuz i clicked on agree, doesnt mean i hafta agree. gimme my rights OOO and lemme run this game"
@Demonicsothe: lol, the world doesn't work that way. if it does, piracy and hacking would be legal.
What you said before is literally what you do when you click agree to terms.
"guess since we want to play this game, we have no choice but to get suckered by their fancies."
Terribly worded, and conveys a negative tone, but true. They made this game, they can change it however they want. But you agree to their terms of using their product.
I read the first 3 posts of this thread earlier, took a nap, and dreamt that:
1) In addition to the changes, Shadowsun's Normal defense was converted to Piercing defense.
2) Every piece of armory in the game that did not have it received a 2nd sub-defense of Piercing defense.
I felt myself laugh heartily at the latter.
Reiyu, the reason they have to include that "checking this or scrolling down or logging in means you agree to the blah blah blah" is because they cannot force you to read the entire ToS, even though you should.
They are not going to be responsible for something you do just because you didn't read the ToS, so to ensure that, they make it so you agree by logging in / making an account / something that you have to do. This way, it is our faults wether or not we read the ToS....
As it should be.
I just realized: with the incoming buff to your armor, the lack of a Shadow Lair gunner armor has become a blessing. You guys now have viable armors for piercing, elemental, and shadow defense. You might say that swordsmen have all three damage types covered as well, but they have to pay up for two Shadow Keys (900 CE in total if they split the cost between a party of 4) and complete the SL Gloaming Wildwoods twice just to get their Snarbolax set.
I don't play Spiral Knights for Lockdown. This game was designed and initially balanced for PvE and being a co-operative dungeon-crawler first and foremost. While I'm not against balancing gear for PvP and Lockdown, I don't think that should be the primary reason to retool gear. From what I gather, the piercing defense doesn't even make a significant enough of a difference against toothpicks, and it frees up a module slot with the damage buff it gets so a heart pendant can compensate. And the change to Shadow defense for me at least means it's going to a hell of a lot more useful in FSC and SL FSC, which is nice since we didn't really have gunner-oriented shadow armor (lol Deadshot set not being useful for guns before then). Piercing gear is basically useless for gunners in the Clockworks anyway since lol beasts and Polyps. With all the long-range shadow attacks like Kats, Howlitzers and Devilites combined with a lot of the endgame involving FSC, Shadow resistance is a lot more important in PvE at least. Instead being damn near useless in PvE and questionable to bad in Lockdown, we now have the Shadowsun set being a serious endgame gunner set for PvE at the expense of it being invalidated in PvP, but it's a net-gain overall for what you can use it for.
Honestly, playing Spiral Knights for Lockdown would be like playing Diablo 3 for PvP. An entertaining diversion, but not the focus, and it certainly shouldn't be the ONLY reason to rebalance or retool gear.
"I just realized: with the incoming buff to your armor, the lack of a Shadow Lair gunner armor has become a blessing."
I totally agree with Metagenic from even before we had armor buffs.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GUNNERS DO NOT NEED A FREAKING SHADOW LAIR SET please count the numbers of how many sets bombs, guns, and swords have currently, thank you :)
+1