Forums › English Language Forums › General › General Discussion

Search

Cost of a free to play game?

6 replies [Last post]
Wed, 11/17/2010 - 18:23
BehindCurtai
Legacy Username

(trying to avoid derailing another thread)

How much do you think you should pay for an hour of good entertainment from a "free to play, pay for advanced stuff" game?

That's not a silly, or inflammatory, question. That's as serious as it gets.

Most games want around $10-$15 per month for full access.
Most "free to play" games are so limited in what free players can do that you really do spend money.
And there's one cat and dog game with (or at least, had) a $400 dog house. That's not a misprint -- four hundred dollars.

Whether you're talking $5 for a ship until it sinks, $2 for a sword for three play months (possibly 6 calendar months), $2 to sail for a play month, $25 for a biggie war ship to help take an island, or whatever -- YPP has a pay for advanced features system. And, lo-and-behold, the exchange -- suddenly, free players really can do everything.

So what does it cost to get stuff in YPP? Last time I checked it was about one doubloon per blockade round on green. Pay game time to support people, get the ability to play the high-end content. That was wonderful.

What could be added to SK to mimic that? Is there a way to make raid content such that you want to add more people, giving them payouts in the process, said payouts worth the energy to play more?

Wed, 11/17/2010 - 18:48
#1
Kaybol
Legacy Username
So far I've been playing SK

So far I've been playing SK for free. As soon as I could I started playing below Emberlight (quite unsuccesfully at first too :P). I have yet to reach the core.

By now I've accumulated 300 Crystal Energy -- I have yet to find the ingredients to complete the recipes I intend to sink my CE in. In other words I received more crowns to convert into CE than free ingredients.

So far it feels like I can perfectly keep playing SK for free indefinitely, especially when playing the deepest levels consistently. It just costs more of my playtime, to accumulate the crowns to convert into CE. But I think that's reasonable, considering that I'm freeloading. I'm getting something with money value, only by investing my time in a fun game.

I guess that's why I really don't get all the discussions/complaints about people's energy being "worth it" to be spent on things. Sure, getting only 100 free energy per day is a tease... but you can even reach the core with it! If you're good. And as a freeloader, that's supposed to take you more time/effort than a paying customer. And as such freeloaders will always be picky about what to invest their energy in... I don't see anything wrong with it.

Or am I totally missing your point? (I heavily suspect I am :P)

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 18:59
#2
BehindCurtai
Legacy Username
So what's the cost of a "free

So what's the cost of a "free to play" game?

It's a loaded question. Most free to play games really aren't. Most are really pay as you go, with some free content.

For a normal game, typically you get 50-200 hours of play from a good $50 game. That's .25 to $1 per hour. Some, like Starcraft or Warcraft 2, give you 100-500; that's really cheap. Others, like Portal, are really good even if shorter.

Online games, like WoW, you might get (4.333 weeks per month, 6-10 hours per week), 25 to 45 hours for your $15; that's about .75 to .33 per hour. If you spend another $50 per year for program upgrades, that's another $4 per month, or $19 per month total, making your per-hour even higher.

Some let you trade time for play. EvE, for example, lets you trade time spent earning credits for a PLEX; that's almost the same as the doubloon exchange, which lets you trade time for pay-as-you-go access to a game.

So what's the cost of a free to play game? It's measured in time spent to achieve stuff. The cost of a pay as you go game? It's measured in some games as cost per time, and in other games as "ohh, look at this crazy expensive shiny".

Games like YPP and SK, with the exchange, let you trade playtime for play, just like a PLEX; unlike a PLEX or subscription, it's not all or nothing.

So, looking at YPP or SK as a free game, what's the cost to play in terms of playtime spent to play certain things?

YPP had a cost to sail of 8 doubloons per 30 days, or 1 doubloon per 3.5 days.
The cost of a good sword was about 3 per 30, or 1 per 10 days.

So that's 4 doubloons per 10 days of play. You could earn those 4 doubloons by spending one day working for others (blockades, for example.). Or pay cash -- 4 doubloons for 10 days is about $1 for 10 days, or 10 cents a day.

(Now, you could pay more for other things -- parlor games, labor puzzles, dress-up. This is the basic level of play.)

So that's a cost of 1 day for 9 days of fun. For basic officer level play -- sword, sailing someone else's ship, a "free" bludgeon. Pay by working for others, earn enough to buy your badges and sword. Free play costs 10% of what you earn.

In SK? In one day of play, and putting the money earned into the exchange? Well, a Haven to Moorcroft run is 60 energy, reasonable to do without dying, and about 1250 crowns (variance not yet established). Three runs at the current prices will buy 100 energy, so one run buys 33. Two runs costs 120 energy (mist + 20). So once you've gotten your first energy purchase, you make a small profit per day, if you only make two runs per day -- you earn 66.7 in two runs, and spend 20, so you're spending about 1/3rd of what you earn to buy energy. But that's at the current, depressed prices -- they're expected to go up. If it goes up to double, then one run will buy 16, two runs will buy 32 and cost you 20 -- you're spending about 2/3rds of your income on energy.

So the price of SK? Cash isn't that far from the YPP cost, if you are only talking about 2 Haven to Moorcroft runs. A lot of people will want more than that. Free play has a much higher cost in terms of the time spent to earn play time. Spending more than about 3 hours in game (2 and a half in the dungeon, plus some time in PvP) gets very expensive.

I was hoping that other people would comment on this. This is just one viewpoint, and it may be way off. But it really looks like this game will be "time expensive".

===

SK has to bring in money. That's a given. People have to want to send in money. If the game only has free players it dies. So how much do you want to, or plan on, playing when you play?

Right now a party with good equipment and high frame rate computers seem to take about 10 minutes per level -- when I "tag along", that's about the time of a level. So one minute per energy still seems to be a reasonable estimate for energy consumption. A run is a little over an hour. The "free energy" is about an hour and a half, maybe a little more for the socializing, and about one and a half runs from Haven. A three hour player will consume around 140-160 energy, allowing some socializing time, some down time, etc. So we're talking two days using 300 energy, or 100 crystal energy every two play days. At about 33 cents per 100, that's 16 cents per day -- so a first estimate is that this free game costs the paying players 16 cents per day. A second estimate is that weekday play will be less -- probably just mist -- and weekend play will be more. A heavy player might spend 6-8 hours on the weekend, or 360 to 400 total energy. That's 150 to 200 crystal in two days, or about 50 cents a day.

Per hour, that's still a really cheap game.
Even if it's $1 per weekend, and you play 4 days a week, that's still only 25 cents a day.

===

So what other choices are there?

Is there a way to make "buying other player's time" viable, like YPP blockades? Do we want guilds to want to buy the time of non-guild members?

Right now the income earned from deeper play vastly outnumbers the income from shallower play. That's a silly relic from D&D of the 1970's, copied without much thought by virtually every game since then. Do we want that to continue? Should crown income be more or less constant over depth? To what extent do we expect to see energy prices dominated by high-end income rates (it was before the "tons of stuff in Haven" release)?

Can we have truly "Free play" without limit? Does it make sense, for example, to make Firefly (the initial 4 level easy dungeon) a zero-energy dungeon? Maybe zero is too low -- what if the firefly gate only cost 3 energy per level? 5 per level? 1 per level? 8 per level? How much lower should firefly be? Should it be less? It pays less, it has less variety, and you cannot get to the other towns. If the goal is simply to make sure that people can play for free, then letting people play more in a more basic environment makes sense; is the goal to make sure that people can play for free? Should the goal be to make people want to pay, or to play the not-so-free content?

===

The bottom line: Right now it looks like cash play is really cheap (low cash cost per play day, or per hour of play, for an additional hour of play over mist), but free play is really expensive (many minutes to earn another hour over mist). Right now it looks like the energy exchange will be dominated by the income from higher level play, and even if that's tier-2 play it's still means low end players won't be able to play much. Right now it looks like free players will not be able to play much, and their whole hour-and-a-half will buy much less than another hour-and-a-half.

EDIT: 1250 crowns earned, not 1250 energy earned :-).

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 03:12
#3
Evolution
Legacy Username
You're right that the energy

You're right that the energy market will most-likely be dominated by the income of the higher-end players. But then again, do low-end players have the same need for that extra energy as the higher-end players? As for how I see it, low-end players don't have that pressing energy cost for alchemy, guilds, trinket/weapon slots and long runs towards the core. So they won't really feel the need to buy that much CE until later on in the game?

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 09:54
#4
Pauling's picture
Pauling
In your cost analysis,

In your cost analysis, remember that you left out weapon and trinket slots, as well as crafting. If you want a unique variant of 5* item, you may have to craft a dozen variants of the same item, each costing at least 300-400 energy (~$1 each). I think that there should be some happy medium where people might craft more if the price were lowered slightly, to increase the "play value" of crafting without decreasing OOO's revenue from the feature.

Ditto for the cost of weapon slots: bombs are simply not useful enough right now for me to justify buying a third weapon slot, and as a result, I rarely craft bombs except for wiki purposes, and elected not to renew my purchase of a weapon slot. In particular, swords and guns are far too useful for the mix of enemies I face for me to give one up, which especially limits leveling of bombs to make the upgraded items. While I don't want to complain about cost, the truth is that with bombs, I pay four times: once to get the ingredients, once to make the item, once to level it to the point where it does a usable amount of damage compared to the alternatives, and once monthly for the right to use it.

I know the ringers are tracking these numbers, so hopefully we'll see some fine-tuning later on to encourage weapon slots to be a larger part of the game. Right now there are obvious costs associated with each feature, plus hidden costs to consider that prevent me from exploring more of the cool options (like unique variants) that have been added to the game.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 16:03
#5
Pupu
Legacy Username
Personally

Personally, I like the League of Legends model, despite it not being an MMO.
A game you can play freely, you pay to get content quicker, but if you don't you can still get it.
Then, there are some useless but cool things you can only buy with money (skins,etc)

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 19:03
#6
BehindCurtai
Legacy Username
> do low-end players have the

> do low-end players have the same need for that extra energy as the higher-end players?

Low end players spend the same amount per floor as high end players.

Up til three star recipes, you can craft instead of playing that day. Two star recipes can craft two items in one day.

Low ends spend fewer crowns on revivals, and that's the only place that the cost is less. (Well, ok, an extra 20 for two more floors below Moorcroft.).

So basically, energy cost does not increase by much as you get to higher end play. Or, energy cost does not decrease by much at the lower end of play.

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system