Spiral Knights - Slag Guards - what's your preferred way to deal with them?

Slag Guards - what's your preferred way to deal with them?

22 replies [Last post]

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:12

Evilnut

They charge from off screen, turns around very quickly and charge again. The window to attack them is small.

I tried shooting with Strike Needle, but they often get out of range so fast, the spread bullets do minimal damage. I tried charging swords (DTB, DA or Combuster), but it's hard to get right behind their backs to unleash it, since they start charging again so soon. And they have good HP in 4-men parties, meaning you need several attacks to kill them only for Vana to summon new ones.

I tried a 2-men party earlier today - a first for me - things were good until the Slag Guards appeared. I was on Shiver duty, but I couldn't keep them all trapped. My partner were supposed to kill the Slags, but he didn't - or couldn't, so he turned to shoot Strike Needle at Vana. Among the charging, shadwo fire and mace, we couldn't deal damaged without taking hits ourselves. We gave up after 1 energy revive from each.

I can handle it in full parties - 4 people means you get to shiver, blitz, and have two people left to water and keep the Slag Guards busy, even when you can't kill them fast enough.

But it seems very hard in a 2-men party. What's your strategy?

- Two shiver to keep everything immobile, heal up with hearts that eventually appear and blitz when you have free time?
- Is there some secret to dodging Slag Guards?
- Is there some secret to killing them fast?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:42

Nubskills

Nyan nyan nyan nyan....

As a slag baiter, I usually stick to the left or right wall, guessing the time when they'll charge, and moving in a semi circle around to dodge and hit their back with a DA. Works best if there's another player to the other side doing the same, or if you have a FoV to launch charge attacks with. Sometimes I keep a slag at the bottom or top, but the bottom area is where teammates head towards to get a better view, so yeah. Shivering slags requires a lot of moving around and estimating charges, from what I've seen. Killing them fast? For me, I use FoV/well-timed DA charges. Dodging them? I estimating the time of their attacks from experience. Dodging early instead of blocking helps a lot, too, if you have lag.
Edit: For a two-man party, you could try moving to the lower part of the screen to see their charges and dropping shivers to freeze them in place. Bonus if you can get Vana to charge into the mist. You might also want to keep one frozen and go after the other, and return to take out the remining one, while keeping Vana frozen, and returning your efforts to taking out Vana after.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 05:35

Athresh

I use blitz needle's

I use blitz needle's charge.Trojans wait for you to stand still,then,they charge.Unlike trojans,slag guards charge at you straight away.You need to use that to your advantage.It's all about timing,and you will get it right with experience.IMO what you use to kill them isn't all that important(sure,FoV owns) because if you get the technique right,then you will kill them sooner or later.
You can shiver lock them too,but i think you need some good ctr to do so(from what I have seen it is not possible to do it with ctr med.....correct me if I'm wrong).
Best way to deal with them?Learn their spawn spots,charge FoV and one shot kill them!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 06:08

Metagenic

…

How the hell would the OP have a Fang of Vog…if he's having trouble with Slag Guards that means he shouldn't have beaten Vanaduke enough times to get one (if you get a Blackened Crest before Fang of Vog, then that means you need 24 Vanaduke kills overall to get the sword).

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 07:38

Evilnut

I used to have trouble

I used to have trouble finding parties to do Vana; back then I joined whenever I could, using DA, Polaris and Strike Needle.

Then I got myself Vog Cub Coat, to mitigate the problem with fire in case I got lagged or bumped into fire. And with that I started soloing the Citadel. On my first attempt I made it to end of d27 without getting hit much... and then the last pair of trojans killed me twice.

With that I went and made Shivermist Buster, a counter I want to use for trojans. I found the charge time too long to be useful though, so I stopped doing FSC past d26. Then the game dropped me a Heavy Demo Helm... which I took as a mandate of the Random Number God and made a Mad Bomber Mask, and then a Volcanic Demo Suit. I still do not know if I can solo last room in d27 - never got the chance to try, but party members enjoy my max CTR shivering, and I did many runs to d27 successfully.

Now I have 24 seals... 2 more Vana kills to get Blackened Crest, my first target. I want to be more capable dealing with slags, so I can stop relying on others so much in phase 5.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 09:56

Demonicsothe

Like Nubskill said. Up and

Like Nubskill said. Up and down a wall. Learn their dash range, shield walk back and forth. While you won't be getting many hits in, this keeps you safe. Once you get used to it, you can charge your da/brandish.

One thing you should take note is that da charge does a silly amount of damage, because it passes right through their shield. So you can let loose at their face, and still hit a crazy amount.

But you basically play slags like bulls. They charge, you sidestep and hit. Keeping a controlled back and forth movement is key. If you are shielding, you get bounced off the side because they can't hit you straight on. Stay near the end of their dash, so you don't have to run and waste time to hit.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 11:41

Batabii

ye olde matador stab. Works

ye olde matador stab. Works wonders.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 13:31

Traevelliath

Cheat!

I use a Glacius actually. Throw a Glacius Charge shot right in the face of a Slag Guard and you have about a 70% chance of freezing him. Then, walk around said Slag, throw another Charge Shot into his back that will, not only do a lot of damage, but also refreeze him (sometimes). Repeat as needed.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 13:47

Demonicsothe

About the brandish charge

If you are standing right up against its shield, it won't fire. But if the step-in from the charge carries you close, the explosions will spawn into and behind the slag.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 18:10

Dark-Flare

Last week our party did the

Last week our party did the thing where you keep one skelly alive to prevent the guards from spawning. Today (during another FSC run) I was told that that was an old method which no longer worked... (We attempted it, slags spawned, most likely since we killed the skelly by accident XP)

So: Does keeping one skelly alive still prevent the slags from spawning?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 18:53

#10

Juances

Vana will always attempt to summon enemies after a set time. If a skelly happens to be alive at that time, it will magically suicide.
So it doesnt work-it was patched looooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.

On topic, this is easier than it looks.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/spiral20120325222711.png/

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 19:24

#11

Dark-Flare

@ Juances

Ah. Hm. Then i have no idea why no slags spawned last time :p

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 19:58

#12

Juances

It's part a glitch and part luck.
Sometimes he just skips taht part,or someone atatcked him at the right time,interrupting the animation. There are even times where he attempts to summon twice, klling the fist wave thus giving free hearths.

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 03:39

#13

Athresh

@Metagenic

The OP does not necessarily have to deal with the slag guards....someone else in the party can do it while he/she is dropping shiver or shooting vana,right?

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 04:50

#14

Aquajag

First Off: i hate you for

First Off: i hate you for getting a free Heavy Demo Helm. Really, I do! All I have ever found are crappy 2* items.

Ahem. If you are doing bombs, here's how to deal with the end of Lvl 27: Shiver, then RSS. What I tend to do is RSS my life away, and a couple times this has meant I've ended up with 3 trojans at the end. But honestly it's sometimes easier for me to deal with 3 trojans than to deal with 1 and 7 zombies breathing fire and leaping on me when I'm trying to dance around the Trojan. So, RSS first. Then, once zombies aren't a problem any more, Ice the trojan, get behind it, and RSS.

With three in the room and fire and spikes, this can be hard as well. So make yourself a Dark Briar Barrage. Get the trojans all together, facing you. Then you plant a bomb and quickly run around t otheir other side, while charging your next. Drop it, and your first should be going off, and they take damage. Rinse, repeat.

As for slag guards, i don't deal with them. I try to stay out of the way and keep my shiver going. And if my teammates can't deal with them, then it's pretty much over. They move too fast for me to get bombs to work on them.

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 16:44

#15

Dukeplatypus

I like to sidestep them and

I like to sidestep them and blitz charge. It can get a bit annoying because in larger parties they don't die in one charge.

Edit: I kinda feel like bragging a bit and listing my item drops now that you guys brought it up.
Thwack Hammer
Wolver Cap
Wolver Coat
Scary Skelly Shield
Sinister Skelly Mask
Heavy Plate Helm
last two I found on consecutive days on the same depth on the same gate in a graveyard and treasure vault respectively. [/gloat]

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 07:15

#16

Nordlead

go to any corner and walk

go to any corner and walk from one wall to the other. This keeps their run length short and you can see the slag guard at all times. Stand where they are going to end up and sidestep as soon as they start their charge animation.

I typically use a brandish charge + swings or FoV. Either works fine, FoV is faster.

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 08:58

#17

Evilnut

@ Aquajag

First Off: i hate you for getting a free Heavy Demo Helm. Really, I do! All I have ever found are crappy 2* items.

Here's a list of item drops I got.

Rock Jelly Armor (4*)
Emberbreak Helm (I like helmets with pony tails)
Heavy Demo Helm (4*)
Skelly suit (2*)

I crafted Volcanic Demo Suit and a bunch of bombs (RSS, Twisted Spine Cone, Super Blast Bomb, Fiery Vaporizer Mk II, Static Capacitor) since the helm dropped. If not for the helm I might have stopped at Freezing Atomizer and stayed as a pure swordie. So it turns out just fine for OOO...

In my first solo run I got killed twice because of the trojans bumping me into fire and spikes. In my party runs I learned how to kite among the slags - they breath fire only when they think they can't get a swipe at you, i.e. frozen at a medium range. I found out I can sneak past them, baiting them to try a swipe, and leave the area before they actually attacked.

With my max CTR on bombs, I can bomb both sides of trojans to keep them forever frozen, unless they were attacked and thus broken free. I think I'll do this - freeze the two trojans, sneak around, and plant another, close to slags. I will keep shivering and use the bomb damage to thin out the slags (they don't have much HP in solo so this is very doable). Once only a few is left, I can pull out my DTB to finish the trojans with a charge or two.

I'm still getting the hang of RSS'ing trojans. I found out I only need 3 shots to kill one in solo, but I don't have the timing and movement pattern down precisely yet.

Did Vana again tonight with a full party. Some energy revives used, but not overly so to cut into our crown income too much. It is indeed easier with someone else to handle the guards and watering. I'll convey the tips in this thread to my party.

One run left for the Crest!

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 09:52

#18

Demonicsothe

For trojans, play like a

For trojans, play like a swordy with rss. Bait a smash and drop, run back to the front.

Or, you could get real close and try to play like a dbb. Drop and turn him as fast as you can. One shard will hit his side.

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 21:12

#19

Kickthebucket

most of the time i'm

most of the time i'm shivering :D so i let other people handle them

but sometimes when i do the run with 1 other knight i try to freeze them the moment they spawn (they won't turn around if you keep them in shivermist range (and the other guy doesn't let vanaduke hit you)

and if i'm slagmeat, just let them charge past me (allways try to keep them on screen) and shoot them with the silversix (or AP in most cases) it's more about distracting then actualy killing them (except when you need health haha)

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 21:37

#20

Qwao

I'll jump in for the sake of it

Brandishes are just darn awesome on guards. Their charge explosions go RIGHT behind their shields, and if you have Glacius just freeze them in place, run behind the guard then unleash another charge. Voltedge is situational, the shock sometimes interrupt their charges mid way or even cancel it entirely.

Here's the trick to brandish charges: You stand in front of them RIGHT after the turn to face you (but NOT when they begin charging) , then unleash your charge, holding defend key IMMEDIATELY after releasing your attack key, so you shield cancel. It is ALMOST always guaranteed that the explosions will go behind them and hit them 1-2 times, but not the status, so just repeat till dead. Remember how to kite them, move side to side from one end of the room so they don't charge into your teammates.

Also try to learn the distance they charge, charge up your brandish as the guards dash. When they end and thrust their lance take that opportunity to unleash your charged brandish on their back.

With blitz it's the same, charge it and wait till they trust their lance, then fire it in their back. This requires skill at timing, and knowing where the guards will stop. It's best you shield immediately to avoid getting hit by their charge upon end of blitz charge.

With DAs it's almost the same as brandish charge; wait till they trust their lance and take opportunity of it to unleash a charge, then bait them into charging again and repeat.

For the hammerers: This is gonna be a joke. Basically you wait till they finish charging, then unleash the combo. With luck (and asi) you can pull off a full combo, but with autotarget you can get all 3hits of the dash to connect and voila, already 900+ damage. I tried it myself in a 4man party, it was a relative breeze.

And don't forget your FoVs, CIVs and Levis, their charges deal a nice amount of damage. Coupled with a shiver holding the guards in place, they can also breeze through killing them. A funny fact is that FoV charge can sometimes set fire to the guard and kill the guard as he turns round to dash (why they can be set on fire is a mystery to me)

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 00:46

#21

Enshadu

Key thing to remember about

Key thing to remember about Slag Guards:

They attack based on a timer.

IIRC, that cooldown is about six seconds, which begins counting down as soon as they start charging. As soon as you see the purple flash (and once you've fought them for long enough, you won't even need to see it - you'll be unconsciously counting it off in your head, and when you get to that point, knowing they'll come from offscreen, it's no longer a problem), you sidestep it and FOLLOW it to strike at its back. Following it is key; since their attack animation and turn speeds are relatively fast, you will not be able to hit it if you wait too long. Best things you can use for that are either elemental brandish charges, Fang charges, Levi charges, or hammer combos; anything else is too slow. And the best way to bait them is to lead them into the southern wall and then back and forth along it.
And don't shoot them. I don't recommend it. Deals too little damage and you're standing still for just a tad too long.

As for two-manning Vana...
Key thing to remember about the Vanaduke boss fight:

There can only be so much lava on the floor at once.

Only get rid of lava that you're absolutely sure will become major impediments later on, e.g. against the walls or near the fountains. This will enable you to continually bait Vana's mace without having lava fall on your head unexpectedly. Ideally, you would want to have one person draw Vana's aggro and have the other draw the Slag Guards' aggro. That doesn't always happen though, so when both of the above are chasing a singular person, the best thing to do is to lap the room and take attacks of opportunity, BUT DO NOT MOVE SO FAST THAT THEY CANNOT KEEP UP WITH YOU - It is imperative that you know where all of the enemies are at any given moment. If you move too quickly, Vana and his guards may stagger their attacks and end up in entirely different and confusing locations.

And as a side note, Shivermist has never been necessary to defeat Vanaduke.

If you're really having trouble with this, I would suggest having someone shiver Vanaduke in the corner for phase five while you just practice manuevering around the Slag Guards. Get used to their timing and how fast they recover.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 16:48

#22

Poopsie

...

can't read all of them, sorry if I am repeating.
The "cheat" fast way to kill it is to remember where they spawned and release charge immediately after they are summoned. 2-man party could kill both slag guard at instant. You could see some of youtube videos for the exact location.
If they are still alive, make sure you know when they attack and where they landed. You should be close on the area where they end up (most likely near wall they dashed onto), dodge with little circle movement (should be easy as long as you can see their direction/body), then release charge when they lunge (you will be late when they finished the lunge animation). Or you could sneak up slag guard that target your friend, release charge/hit fast then avoid his attack immediately.
If you need time to get well, you could at least throw freeze vials to vanaduke (when you play without shiver), and make sure you don't fool around in front of vana's face and take attention that sometimes slag dash can break the ice.

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Slag Guards - what's your preferred way to deal with them?