Spiral Knights - Skills *UPDATED* Now.. Concept Art!

Skills UPDATED Now.. Concept Art!

17 replies [Last post]

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 06:17

Nixk

I'm pretty sure something similar to this has been regarded to on this forum before. But I've put a lot of thought to it so it won't change game play in a major way that it will be hard to implement. Yet, I think something like this should be added to spice up uniqueness to character's and player style. Simple way to call it is "skills." Though I don't think it's as simple as "skills" in other games, so it fits. Here are my ideas, these are open to opinions of course! Just please, serious criticism.

Point 1- Skills as an item/equipment.

As far as I see it, it would be almost silly to add a new "skills" menu since that would change to much of the simplicity to spiral knights character development. This would require new points to increase skills, ect. So my idea to this was to have skills as an equip-able items like trinkets. There would be four slots, above health or even extended to the item belt at the top in some manner. This is a useful way of introducing these skill items because then they could be upgraded just like the trinkets you can get from Krogmo. Yet, instead of no recipes, there should be no required items. And the recipes could be skill scrolls, or books, obtainable in some manner. To upgrade, you just need the required amount of CE and CR. Either the normal 1-5* or even just even have the skills leveled as "SKILL -TIER 1" to "SKILL - TIER 2" to "SKILL - TIER 3" These will be leveled through heat just like items. First upgrade, level 5, them second level 10.

Point-2 Variety in Skills

Obviously specific skills cannot be used on every weapon, and also every weapon cannot have their own skills. To create variety and find away around this problem, I suggest, weapon types can have their own skills. For example, there are types of swords, they all basic in these categories in similar ways. So the skills can be designed to work with those categories.
Example. You can tell the item type by its logo.
In the sword there are:
-Heavy 2-hit sword,, ex. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Heavy_Hatchet.
-3-hit sword, ex. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Static_Edge.
-5-hit sword, ex. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Cutter.
-Thrusting sword and ranged sword (Spur), ex. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Flourish
I will later explain skill ideas for these types and more in the "skill specifics"

Point-3 Functions

To not overpower these skills was a major part of my thought process. It was hard to come up with a way these skills would be useful with out being overpowered and also not making charge of each sword useless. Obviously, they're abilities are much more for specific use then the charges were designed, making character choice, development and uniques in styles up to the player, so they could be powerful in their uses. But how can we make it so they are not used like charges? In some sort of limit. I have a few ideas here for this. One; costs. Mist or heat. Small amounts. Two; amount of use per depth or per tier. Three; Even though each I think should require time limits between uses, instead of having costs or limits for uses, there should just be a large time limit between each use. I think costs would make the economy a little stranger, so I think the time limits would be the best choice.
(I will clean this section up, sorry for its confusion XD)

*Edit* Each skill, when used, will be the same for any of the weapon used wtih, as in the smash or colors of the attack and style/animations, unless the skill says otherwise. Example, the heal gun, working on the art, will shoot heart aurared bullets.

Point-4 (my favorite part of the ideas) Skill Specifics :D (these are all rough drafted ideas, excuse messiness, will be edited after comments)

This is where I will tell you my ideas for skills and how they work :D

I'll list some skills I've thought of that fit my system.

Support Skills

*Heal, two versions*

Bomber heal (name pending, works for chemical (status effect area) bombs, ex. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Haze_Bomb [bombs with this logo])
-Bomber Heal Tier 1- Charge is slow, with a small radius. Once placed a cloud similar to vaporizer series and the other series like it. Any player in it will receive back 2% of their full health bar ever couple seconds (same as it would cause status alignment with like freezing vaporizer). Bombs cloud has same radius as 2* chemical bombs and last just as long.
-Bomber Heal Tier 2- Charge is medium, medium radius, and time is medium, between that of the 4 and 5* of cloud bombs. Heals 5% every couple seconds.
-Bomber Heal Tier 3- Charge is fast, large radius, and time is long. 5* equivalent of chemical bombs. Heals 7% per amount of time.

Gunner Heal (works for pulsar or catalyzer and possibly alchemer series) This skill will shoot a ball similar to pulsar that pops at set distance. Heals any living thing it hits, teammate or enemy. Charges, time and size of bullet pop is the same as how bomber heal worked. Tier 1 matches 2*, Tier 2, between 4-5* and Tier 3 matches 5*. This skill can shoot three bullets before it requires wait time. (if only one is shot with in 3 seconds, it will require wait time)
-Gunner Heal Tier 1- 2% of full health is healed per hit
-Gunner Heal Tier 2- 5% of full health is healed per hit
-Gunner Heal Tier 3- 7% of full health is healed per hit and sure status OF the gun its used from (Example, pulsar series will cure shock, and firetech alchemer with cure fire, shadow will shadow curse *idea under review still XD*)
(Haven't decided wait time. 30 seconds to 2 minuets)

Thrusting swords skill,

*Justifying precision*
This skill when used is a single attack from the sword. Player places a foot back and stabs forward with single, processioned attack through an enemy in direction the player attacks. Damage increases for higher level (tier 1, tier 2, tier 3) Possibly range. Wait time between uses follows:
Tier 1- 30 seconds
Tier 2- 30 seconds
Tier 3- 40 seconds (larger amount of damage)
(piercing damage of course)

Heavy 2 hit Sword Skill

*QUAKE (anyone that smashes forward with a charge, like trokia)*
This is a forward smashes that quakes the ground and knocks enemies down in a radius or knocks them back, quaking the ground.
Tier 1- Small splash area.
Tier 2- Medium splash area.
Tier 3- Larger splash area with the status of the sword (shock, fire, stun) arising form the quake.
Damage increases with upgrade of course :D
Wait time would be 30 seconds. 40 for tier 3.
http://beastly-nikk.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4u7bt8
Did this on in photoshop, its tier 1, being used with trokia. All tier one quakes would have this same style effect, no matter the sword used. Skills negate status effects and style of the weapon its used with unless the skill states otherwise. As tier 3 this skill would have status effect of the weapon and appearance to match.

5-Hit Sword Skills

*Ghastly Quick Strike*
Fast moving strike that goes through amount of enemies in direction player attacks at a certain distance, player appears on other side followed by a streak of the sword.
Tier 1- Weak, small distance and a slow draw (as in the play pulling the sword from charge postion) 20 second wait time
Tier 2- Moderately stronger, slightly larger distance, medium speed draw. 20 second wait time
Tier 3- Strongest, a lot larger distance and a fast draw. 30 second wait time, but can use attack chain once down with the strike.
http://beastly-nikk.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4u6k2h
Art shows the start and end of the attack, since the in between would be an animated slide, mostly blurred.

Unique sword skill for Gran Faust ONLY acts like the charge of the DA.
Tier 1 has a high chance for curse ,Tier 2 as a medium chance for curse on user, Tier 3 is reduced.
Rest of the charge is similar to the DA

Special skills, player skills or armor skills. * WAIT TIMES FOR ALL ITEMS ARE UNDER CONSIDERATIONS STILL*

Cloak, with upgrade increase time cloaked. Enemies will not target or notice player. Cloak ends if action is taken.

Blast, like energy blast. I thought this would be good for bombs so this would be a bomber only skill. With upgrade it blasts back enemies farther and at tier 3 it would stun. (good if dual wielding was added)

Speed increase, movement. This one would be good for maybe just striker series swords, but I think all should be able to use it. With upgrade time speed is increased is also increased XD

I haven't come up with names for all of them so if you have suggestions I'd like to hear :D

I have more skill Ideas that I will add over time if people would like to hear. Please don't be afraid to ask questions if I've been confusing.
*idea in progress*
dual wield skill

*edits*
1.1 Changed heal values. Added a wait time suggestion.
1.2 Fixed names, thanks to, and credit to, Merethif
1.21 Added new skill idea

p.s. Suit would be awesome

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 07:23

Juances

I stopped reading when I saw the word 'Heal'

Thats a no-no here.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 07:52

Nixk

It was just a suggestion

It was just a suggestion haha. Like I said feel free to suggest. You may not be fond of healing, but I know a lot of people who are. Its pretty naive and stubborn to stop reading an idea just because you don't like a suggestion in it.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 07:59

Merethif

OK, that was pretty long, but

OK, that was pretty long, but I've read it all.

Generally I think that Trinkets are Skills in SK and there's no need for new system. It's just a matter of naming really - you can name a skill "Ranger Marksmanship" or "Assassin's Lightning Strike" and make it stick to the character forever thus locking such character in single play-style path OR you can name it "Trueshot Module" or "Quick Strike Module" and make it unequippable allowing a player to change his/her play-style every level he/she wish. I value second system more and that's why I like SK.
The SK system is very innovative - you can tell that by the numbers of players who create new characters only to experience new play-style. It shows how much new generation of gamers become conservative and are unable to think outside-the-box.

I've read your point 1 ;-) so I know that your idea is somewhat based on trinket system and it's not design-breaking idea and that's why I'm not raging here, just sharing my opinion and constructive criticism ;-D

Now about point 2. It's bit of a side note but basing on icon names in game files, the swords are named: 2-hit sword, sword, 5-hit-sword, thrusting sword and ranged sword (Spur). Guns are named: handgun, auto handgun, heavy handgun, elemental handgun, pulse handgun and revolver. And bombs are named: bomb, chemical bomb and relic bomb.

Point 3.
It's strictly hypothetical because I'm not supporting this idea but generally I think that time limit isn't best idea for such skills. I'm one of those players who actually wait for a gate to rotate to avoid unwanted levels/get into wanted levels. Meanwhile I make a phone call to my parents, hang washing, unpack dishwasher, read a book or whatever, but yes don't join me without asking because you risk joining player who is sitting AFK just before the elevator ;-D
Now waiting for the skill to recharge would add additional waiting time, which although good for my house chores, would be painful for gaming experience. Unless recharge time would be very short but then what's the point of it? Energy cost or times per Tier limit sounds better.

Point 4.
Healing 10% doesn't sound like a valid idea in environment where you are frequently knocked out by 2 or 4 hits. If I'm 30% health or less I'm dead with single smash.
Damage increase comes with Trinket.
Knocking down or back enemies are weapons abilities. What's the point of them if you can "add" it to any weapon.
Speed increase is ability of certain armours and helms.

TL;DR: Generally I think that Trinkets are Skills in SK and there's no need for new system.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 08:02

Cor-Tana

Nice suggestion

I like your idea Nixk! The healing bomb thing would be really cool!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 08:28

Nixk

@ Merethif thanks for the

@ Merethif thanks for the response. Yeah i dropped the healing values. But about the trinket thing. It may seem similar, but all trinkets do is add value or increase speed, and doesn't change the style of attack. The idea here is to add more attack options to give players more possibilities in character development. If you have a "quake" skill, a player could run into a mass of mobs and use this skill knocking them down, stunning them or pushing them away form a dangered ally, with out the use of another weapon. This is hard to show as of now since i haven't posted the pictures. I will finishing drawing them if i get enough people. Also If i add more skill ideas you'll see what I mean about different styles where people will have to be creative in picking them.

The idea of quake is like if your in arena and surrounded by mobs, a player can use quake to create a chance for your teammates to run and escape, or even just hit a lot of enemies with a large attack in a good hit, and you can't add it to any weapon, only 2 hit heavy swords, just makes a better attack for emergencies and stuff.

With the healing, it is useful if you can have a good bomber raise you from 2 to 4 or even 6 blips of health, same with the gunner, at a 21% increase but at the risk of healing enemies too.

Its just adding more style to the way people interact in depths and play.

Thanks for clarifying the names :D I will edit. by chance, do you know a name for the cloudy bombs? That sounds so lame XD.

*edit* OH and also, wait times are not long enough to step away. they are like in game waits. So if you used the skill, there would be a timer ring around the icon with it grayed out for like 30 seconds or 40 seconds. Maybe that clarifies more?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 08:49

Nixk

Oh is it chemical bomb?

*UPDATED*

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 19:33

Rommil

Read and noted

**Saving this spot to be hyper-critical** hhehehe. not really. But i just wanted to say that i read it and found it interesting.

Such a hard balance tho, as there are a million good ideas that make the game different, perhaps better perhaps not, but just fundamentally different. This could potentially fall into that category, not sure yet, still mulling it over.

Basically, like any suggestion of letting players level up, gaining stats, experience, standard RPG or MMO stuff. While this stuff would make the game different (and more fun, for a few minutes, since it'd be new and novel) ultimately, in the grand scope of things, it wouldn't be making spiral knights better, but be making a new and different game out of spiral knights altogether!! (the experience and leveling and skill tree idea.....not yours nixk).

So yeah. long story short, there are a million fun things that would be super cool because they were new! but would they be better? or would they simply be a different experience and a different game? Not sure if this idea of yours, nixk, is an amendment to spiral knights, or would just be a different game based on spiral knights.

The latter is not all bad :)
I could envision a game where we had dual weapons, 2 handed heavy weapons, 2 handed cannons (for heavy guns), lances all in addition to what spiral knights currently has. We could have pets (whoa, they'd be a weapon, and inhabit a weapon slot---so they'd basically be a reskinned gun that ran around and attacked as you clicked on stuff. yep, for all tense and purposes, just a gun with a really distracting falcon, wolf, whatever animating around to trick you :)

And on first blush, do that and let us accrue levels, etc..... and this MIGHT be a more fun experience......but only for a short time because it would be brand new. It wouldn't be more fun at first than was our current spiral knights at first, but i'm bored of our current spiral knights, so drastically changing up some things (gameplay and content wise, not economy, AH, and cosmetics) would add some more playtime for a bit.

I'm rambling. Because i'm bored and watching NBA coast 2 coast and drinking coffee.

*****
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*****

tl;dr
Interesting. Nothing of value to add yet. Still considering this thoughts and Ideas.
Its a tough balance between "tweaking this game" and "fundamentally changing the game."

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 21:41

Nixk

@ Rommil I see what you're

@ Rommil I see what you're saying and I agree partially. I think if OOO added this it could just be fun because its new if they don't make it as good as they could. I think if done right, this could add a quite a bit more game play because it will require players to come up with combinations of skills equipped with their equipped weapons, which will make so many combinations. Plus it adds a lot more for players to work on. Theres many new "skills" OOO could add and having 4 new items to work on for a player will be interesting, especially while trying to explore what combination and skills work best for the player. If done wrong, it will just be like new items with different attack styles. I figured posting on here will get lots of people to post their ideas of skills so OOO has some good ideas if they ever decided to do this. I took your advice, I'm working on some concept images :D Thanks Boss ;)

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 07:42

Nixk

*UPDATE*

Added another piece of concept art, this time for quake.

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 11:02

#10

Diamondshreddie

hmmmmmm

ive read through the suggesion fully, and i get what you are saying. i like the general idea you are trying to portray, but in all honesty, i think it would be easier and better just to add more weapons, to fill more kinds of uses.

i know you tried to keep it simple, to keep the beautiful simplicity that spiral knights has, but it would just be kind of complicated, especially considering PVP.

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 18:19

#11

Nixk

Yeah I was thinking too it'd

Yeah I was thinking too it'd be easier to add just weapons, but I think the problem with just adding weapons is that it doesn't give enough posibilities to players to develop unique styles since weapons fit into categories. It'll be a little complicated too add it, but it should keep the simplicity. I'll draw a chart to show you what i mean about possibilities. Thanks for the response :D Gives me something to work on :D

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 19:29

#12

Nixk

Also for pvp, it may be that

Also for pvp, it may be that just dont allow it in pvp, this is more of a tier thing.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 05:15

#13

Merethif

"Cloud" bombs' icon is indeed

"Cloud" bombs' icon is indeed called chemical bomb. That's why they deal elemental, thus not physical, damage.
Also remember that these are just icon file names - not official weapon type names.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 05:39

#14

Nixk

Lol merethif i know.. I just

Lol merethif i know.. I just didnt know the name. But if you pay attention, so far most of the weapons with the same icon follow the same base properties or stream from the same 2* I cleared most of that up. But thanks..

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 14:30

#15

Diamondshreddie

snahfwnhvboeq

right right! i forgot about that point you made about specializing more in what you use than just "owning a set of weapon specialized armor" because of course, anyone can own every set, and can alternate in specializing with different types of weapons..

it would be nice to have something sort of like this in that regard, thus i could further make clear the fact that i specialize in using bombs. this would also lead to more incentive to make alternate characters who specialize differently, and ALSO allow people who use non-weapon specific gear, to betterspecialize in the weapon type they use.

but then that also may be a problem at the same time. it kind of restricts your ability to actively change your primary weapon type

but meh ... what do i know

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 17:11

#16

Nixk

I agree it could make that

I agree it could make that harder.. But I think it would be like trinkets, you'd specialize in which ever ones you get first but after a while you'll be able to have a lot, especially with only two upgrades. but this way it makes people to actually have to practice using them, unlike trinkets in ld where a lot of people but them with out having to have a change in play so know new practice majorly and be much much more powerful =O

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:01

#17

Nixk

What about dual wielding?

What about dual wielding? Anyone wanna help me add skills for that so if its added to the game it will be equal?

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Skills *UPDATED* Now.. Concept Art!

Skills UPDATED Now.. Concept Art!