Spiral Knights - Curse and Sleep (Weapon ideas)

Curse and Sleep (Weapon ideas)

10 replies [Last post]

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 14:37

Roflcakesinternet

as we all know theres only 1 curse sword and no sleep weapons so here are a few of my ideas

Simple Version
A bomb that has a chance to deal curse
A gun that can induce sleep

More Detailed
Hextech bomb that will explode like the nitronome would with a small/average chance to deal curse
the explosion would deal shadow damage and have a special image/effect to it like the big angry bomb resembling a spookat
the 5star version could resemble a grimalkin
No Knockback

Tribal Dart would have 2 shots before reloading would have a average/good chance to induce sleep
effect but would stun for 1 second before the sleep (the woozy effect before you go to sleep :P)
the stun effect cause of the loud noise it makes knowing you got the effect on them now switch to sleep someone else
it could deal piercing(or normal damage?? too many elemental guns)

the gun could be useful in support situations like easily incapacitating the slags at vanaduke
and the bomb would most likely replace the shadow bombs that are at our selection already

Feedback anyone ?

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 15:45

Schattentag

Nope.

Curse is too powerful of a status to be applied so easily as with a bomb. The idea has been brought up several times before, and I believe this is the consensus.

I also feel like sleep would be too cheap, especially in a party. Specifically in regards to Slag Guards, the ability to cause sleep so easily and frequently would allow party members to dispatch them too quickly, resulting in a mass of hearts all over the ground, a really easy Vana fight, or both.

EDIT:
Also, wouldn't Hextech run into copyright issues with Riot Games?

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 16:00

Severage

LD.

Nobody ever thinks about LD when they suggest weapons.

Sleep weapons would be STUPID in LD. Just saying.

~Sev

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 20:26

Derpules

The Curse "consensus" is BS.

Ask a Faust charge user if it's imba. Answer: no. Is it useful? Sure, but not gamebreaking.

In any case, numbers can always be tweaked. Would Curse be imba if it dealt 5000 dmg per tick? Sure. How about 5 damage per tick? Uhhh, not so much. Somewhere in between these numbers is a point at which Curse would be perfectly balanced. Not rocket science. . . .

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 22:55

Schattentag

@Derpules

Did I ever say curse was imbalanced? Answer: no.

Is it useful? Sure, but not gamebreaking.

Why is curse not gamebreaking or imbalanced? Answer: because it's so uncommon. There's two ways people can curse enemies: curse vials and the Faust line. Curse, as far as I know, is widely regarded as the strongest status in the game. From what I can tell it is for this reason that people are restricted to having only two ways of inflicting it and that not very many enemies can inflict curse upon players.

If players were given the ability to use the suggested bomb, what would happen? Answer: curse would become gamebreaking.

Why would curse become gamebreaking with this bomb? Answers:
1) The bomb has no drawbacks. Faust does - the ability to curse oneself.
2) The bomb doesn't even deal knockback. You could spam it infinitely until all your enemies were cursed. By that time, if they weren't already dead from the pure shadow damage you were dealing, they would be dead quite soon due to the curse you've given them.

If you're going to disagree with my post, please at least read what I'm saying first. If you find that the community agrees that a curse-inflicting bomb would actually be a good addition to the game, let me know. I will gladly admit that I was mistaken when I wrote, "I believe this is the consensus."

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 00:10

Derpules

Still illogical.

Curse that dealt the victim 5 dmg each time it attacked would not be imba. We can agree on this, I hope?

How about 10 dmg?

20?

40?

80?

etc.

Keep increasing those values and you'll eventually reach a point at which it will be balanced. This is self-evident. Conjectures as to the *inherent* power of Curse based on its *current, specific damage and duration values* are just absurd.

I'm not saying your claim that there is a consensus is BS, BTW. You're probably right on that. I'm saying that that consensus is silly.

P.S. I run with a CTR H Faust and Max+ Curse. I can Curse whoever whenever. I don't find that that makes Clockworks trivial--in fact, it's usually not even worth it.

LD? Oh, who cares. PvE is the game. PvP is a mini-game. It's high time it got balanced separately from PvE.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 01:07

Severage

@Derpules:

Curse currently is programmed to work a certain way...

The fact that it does loads of damage when you attack while cursed is static. I've never seen an exception to the damage you take from any status effect, it's all calculations which don't change.

To make an exception so that one bomb that potentially curse mobs of enemies, seems a little silly.

At the moment, the only weapon that causes curse is the Faust Line. All fausts dish out Strong Curse, I believe. So, we have no demonstration of how powerful a "Weak" curse would be on an enemy.

If the OP had specified it was anything aside from the only kind of curse in the game, maybe I wouldn't be so quick to disagree. I just assumed it's the same as every other kind of curse. 43 Seconds and does lots of damage when you attack.

There is no weaker form of curse in the game, so the assumption is it was the same as every other curse. If you were to make curse more mainstream like the other statuses, and just as powerful (more or less), then that's a different story.

~Sev

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 01:19

Derpules

Given that there are different levels of fire, etc.

I see no reason to believe that the devs couldn't introduce different levels of Curse.

The assumption that any Curse effect added (to bombs or whatever) would be exactly the same as the current Curse effects is groundless. The devs can set whatever values they like.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 02:05

Severage

@Derpules:

It may be groundless, but as far as player perception, we have no idea how potent a "Weak Curse" would be. I'm sure that they have their own calculations, probably percent-based, on how much damage/time of effect Weak does as opposed to Medium or Strong.

So it seems a bit abstract to suggest an item with Weak Curse...unless you happen to know exactly how much damage/ToE weak curse does as opposed to Strong Curse. You could guess, but you can't really know how powerful it'd be...

Anyway, the OP never mentioned a difference between its curse abilities and anything else's, it just says "to deal curse".

~Sev

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 03:05

Derpules

True, the OP left that unstated.

Given that s/he could have meant a Curse exactly like the current, or a Curse that's appropriately balanced, wouldn't it make for a more productive discussion to assume the second? :P

I don't see why we need to "know exactly how much damage/ToE weak curse does as opposed to Strong Curse" to discuss the idea. If we could pull damage and duration and proc chance numbers out of our hats and have them actually be balanced, video game playtesters (and some devs) would be out of jobs. I think it is safe to assume that OOO would be able to find an appropriate power level for "weak curse"--eventually.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 11:45

#10

Schattentag

@Derpules

I can't quite say I know what you meant when you said, "Still illogical," but my logic went something like this:

Assumption: curse is the most powerful status.
Fact: the suggested bomb would provide an easy way to inflict curse.
Therefore we can make this assumption: the suggested bomb would provide an easy way to inflict the most powerful status.

Assumption: the game is as balanced as the devs want it to be.
Fact: there are currently only two ways to inflict the most powerful status.
Therefore we can make this assumption: the devs want there to be only two ways of inflicting the most powerful status for the game to be balanced.

Assumption: the suggested bomb would provide an easy way to inflict the most powerful status.
Assumption: the devs want there to be only two ways of inflicting the most powerful status for the game to be balanced.
Therefore we can make this assumption: the suggested bomb would imbalance the game by adding another way to inflict the most powerful status.

Logically, I hope this makes sense. This is probably the same logic that led to the aforementioned consensus from the community.

I think we're disagreeing not on the logic of the consensus, but rather the ideas behind its fundamental assumption: curse is the most powerful status. In its current form, curse seems to be the most powerful status. However, as you've said, that form may be changed with the addition of this bomb to keep it balanced, as we assume the devs want it to be.

In any case, I still don't like the idea of a knockback-free shadow bomb with a chance to deal curse (strong or weak). From the sound of it, the OP intends this bomb to be like the shadow version of DBB, but with the chance to inflict curse. Unless the bomb itself is relatively weak or slow, I'm not liking the idea of a DPS bomb that has the ability to inflict any kind of damage status.

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Curse and Sleep (Weapon ideas)