Guns need to be king of single target damage, not just used for a single boss.
Tue, 06/21/2011 - 01:44
#52
A little pushing it
This is a lot less important and not entirely relevant, but they got real lazy with the gunslinger hats. 2 of the 5* hats are exactly like the 3*, and the only ones that are different look the same as each other with a color swap and removing the badge. It's bad enough that it's nearly impossible to get decent UVs on gunslinger gear since it starts off 3*, but even if you do get a great UV on gunslinger armor, it's pretty much wasted since IAS on guns is demolished by reloading times and small clip sizes (with an acception to antiguas which are bad on their own level) meaning if you aren't using a deadshot the UV would be way more useful on another line of armor. And on top of that you don't get much variation with costume design.
The community is screaming for a change, it's a definite that guns need to be more useful, at least useful enough that gunslingers aren't shunned out of almost every party.
Tue, 06/21/2011 - 03:46
#53
People keep bringing up the
People keep bringing up the "guns have range, so they have to deal less damage" argument, but this is ignoring all the other drawbacks guns face. Many guns force you to stand still when firing, and those that don't slow you down considerably. All guns force you to reload, during which time you can't block. All guns slow you down significantly when you charge them, as opposed to swords which allow you to charge and run at full speed. Many enemies specifically avoid your gun fire. Guns with slower projectiles have the tendency to miss if you don't lead, and miss even when you hit thanks to the ping monster. A lot of guns are slower than a lot of swords. It's hardly just an issue of range and damage. As far as I'm concerned, there's room for improvement in the stats of guns across the board without introducing any breakage.
Let me put in a bit of an anecdote - I've run quite a few teams so far, and I have NEVER seen a person use just guns and never swords. I've barely seen people use guns at all. They mostly pull their guns out when I pull mine out and remind them they have another weapon besides their sword. I don't discount that there are "gunslingers" in the game who favour guns above all else. What I AM saying is that if you're worried of everyone using guns and almost no-one using swords, then why aren't you worried about everyone using swords and almost no-one using guns? Because right now, the vast majority of players (in my experience) favour a sword. Shouldn't that be seen as a problem?
Tue, 06/21/2011 - 03:49
#54
How about
a gun that shoots like tier 2 gun puppies? and maybe flamethrower type gun?
Tue, 06/21/2011 - 05:30
#55
Personally, I think most guns
Personally, I think most guns are fine. In fact, I think a lot of the guns are unbalanced in the status that they inflict; but then again, so are some swords.
For example, take any Alchemer gun. If you think you need to reload, you obviously haven't explored the game mechanics. You can avoid reloading by firing one shot, waiting until your knight "resets"; this allow you to fire again without reloading. Not sure if this increases your DPS (I think it does) but it definitely allows you to stay mobile. This is also true for any gun with N shots, you just shoot N - 1 shots to avoid reloading. There is no exception to this game mechanic unless there's a one-shot gun that I'm unaware of.
Furthermore, consider Storm Driver. It can split up into four additional projectiles, making a total of five projectiles that can inflict moderate shock. Against constructs and undead, this is devastating, and against wolvers and fiends, it gives you a chance to stop them in their tracks. Not every gun is like this, but typically I see gunslingers pack at least two types of guns for different enemy types.
P.S. I didn't bother reading most of the thread because there's too many personal attacks and handwavery. If you have a point, please make it concise and avoid insulting others needlessly.
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 16:20
#56
bump
bump because guns do need balanced.
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 16:38
#57
If you're not into soloing,
If you're not into soloing, and the party has both a bomber, gunner and a swordman ... that'd make a perfect combination. I use swords, and I gladly take all the support I can from other players using either bombs or guns. You're supposed to work together, and if you solo, try to get different kinds of weapons. It's an online game, you're SUPPOSED to work together, DEAL WITH IT.
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 20:36
#58
I like Dasparian's idea
Saying that "almost nobody" uses guns is a bit of an overstatement, however you could probably say that not many people use guns exclusively. I currently run one of each weapon type (Dread Venom Striker + either Master Blaster or Silversix + Fiery Atomizer) and I can definitively say that my guns will always have a place in my arsenal. Sniping constructs and silkwings is absolutely invaluable, whether in a party or solo, and the dodge and shield mechanics are actually tactically useful: for instance, when gremlins are dodging, they can't attack until their animation completes, which can buy others in your party a chance to charge an attack (or buy you the chance to escape if you're soloing). However, as a method of dealing damage they are utter crap, and you need a sword or bomb to finish things quickly.
So gun damage needs a solid buff. That could be implemented in several ways: I particularly like Dasparian's idea about all bullets inflicting a short duration def-down debuff. Aside from helping your party deal more damage, it rewards the gunslinger for consistent, focused shooting (and, added plus, the code is mostly already there). I think guns should be able to deal damage nearly on par with swords, but only with skilled, accurate, focused shooting (thus making guns not play exactly like swords with a longer reach and less damage).
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 20:39
#59
What I want to know is why
What I want to know is why gun damages are so much more for enemys? For you, you barely scratch your enemy(about 9 hits with a master blaster to kill on about depth 14) while if you get hit by a gunpuppie(which shoots mutible bolts) it is like getting a limb blown off.
Pretty much, a gun is almost always one teir below a sword. A master blaster is 4 stars and even though it lets you go to t3 it's only pretty much useful for t2.
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 21:23
#60
I always thought the game was
I always thought the game was meant to be played by using different types of weapons to complement each other rather than just a single type. Though most players would focus on one type of weapon it never hurts to carry different ones. I find an alchemer to be a good complement for my sword because the elemental damage is great versus constructs which hit hard and are harder to interrupt with the last hit of your sword. Plus I find the constant need to shield and maneuver around enemies to kill my DPS. Guns may be more situational than swords but if you have the right gun for the situation they can be deadly. I don't really think they need a buff or nerf.
There really is no reason to compare guns to swords because they are two different weapon types with different uses. Guns will probably always fulfill more of a support role than the straight damage of swords but I don't think that is a bad thing.
Fri, 06/24/2011 - 21:28
#61
Are you kidding me. I prefer
Are you kidding me. I prefer to use my sword but I would die twice a level without my gun.
Guns do not need a buff.
Sat, 06/25/2011 - 01:47
#62
No.
Guns deal less damage because guns are safer. If guns dealt as much damage then swords then there would be no point in taking swords in the first place. After all, why get up close and risk taking damage when you can deal the same damage from a mile away? (By the way, if you are a gunner and can't handle T2+ Mecha Knights, Wolvers, and Devilites, then you should shoot less and move more. Either that or you should stop using that autogun.)
You can make a case for buffing autoguns, since an autogun disables you for a whole 2 seconds when you fire it. (This is for a single attack. Spam the attack and it disables you for a lot longer.) Other than this gun damage is fine and does not need a buff.
Sat, 06/25/2011 - 07:59
#63
There really is no reason to
There really is no reason to compare guns to swords because they are two different weapon types with different uses. Guns will probably always fulfill more of a support role than the straight damage of swords but I don't think that is a bad thing.
There is every reason to compare guns to swords (or to bombs for that matter), because players have a limited number of weapon slots available and if there's a clear advantage one weapon type has over the other, players simply won't use the other.
As for myself, there are only a select few circumstances where I'd even consider using a gun. Like dealing with gun puppies protected by a bed of spikes, for instance. But these circumstances are few and far between, insufficient to justify carrying it around all the time. Every other circumstance is one I'd rather use a sword or bomb for because I can deal greater damage without necessarily increasing the risk to a level I can't handle.
Sat, 06/25/2011 - 08:07
#64
By end game you will have 4
By end game you will have 4 weapon slots to play around with, more than enough space to justify a more situational weapon. Other than that I find your assumption that a sword has a clear advantage over guns to be false as quite a few people have said on this board that guns have enough advantages to justify carrying one. Do players want a gun buff? Sure, more damage is always welcome. Do guns need a buff? Not really.
As a gunner myself, I do enjoy the fact that I can kite mobs if conditions are right. However, there are certain particular drawbacks which does stand out as needing some adjustments. note that I am saying adjustments, as I do not believe guns need huge buffs. Both of these of course have been touched on in various forms by others, but wanted to just place my input in as well.
Guns do need a small damage buff, as while they do work out great solo, being a gunner in a party does tend to make me feel as if I am not holding up my weight with the speed in which mobs are mowed down by swordsmen while I kite a few mobs around not really killing any for a good amount of time. A swordsman will kill 2-3+ mobs in the timeframe that it takes me to kill a single mob. I think the scale should be closer to 1.5-2 depending on the gun. Guns like the Magnus and Autogun lines which make the player stand still to fire should be around 70-75% of the power of an equal level sword, as these guns do tend to leave you open to far more counter attacks and closers. Guns that allow you to kite, given the right conditions, should do ~65-70% of an equal level sword. Of course the guns like the Alchy lines would be on the lower end due to their status effects, while the Blaster line would be near the top end of that spectrum. I do not believe guns should be on the same power level as swords, since you do have the extra range to factor in at the minimum.
A second issue I would like to see addressed (and one that arguably stands out the most for me especially trying to solo) is mobs with the dodge/shield abilities dodge/shield less often (potentially limit it down to 1/3-1/2 chance to dodge depending on the mob), and under more circumstances then just when fired at. It doesn't make much sense to me that a mob will leap out of the way of a bullet, but will stand there and let someone with a blade bash their brains in. Simply changing this would also help out a lot of the first problem, as a good number of mobs eventually start dodging, which means every shot at them that misses is another wasted shot, on top of any shots you naturally miss with due to the nature of the targeting system. Lower the chances of the mobs to autoblock/dodge, and give those same mobs also the ability to dodge/block melee/bomb attacks. This would make the mobs feel more 'alive', as well as give more equal footing to all weapon types.