Spiral Knights - Alchemer damage: Storm / Magma / Hail vs. Nova.

Alchemer damage: Storm / Magma / Hail vs. Nova.

27 replies [Last post]

Fri, 03/30/2012 - 16:33

The-Rawrcake

So my Hail did, at max damage, 229 damage to a depth 28 zombie.

My Nova did 273, at max damage, to a depth 28 zombie.

So I punched in calculator math and, in the "hardest depth" (which you should account your gear for mostly. In other words, depth with most health etc), the raw damage from the bullets from the Hail did 16% less damage than the Nova's bullets.

So... without statuses accounted for, the raw damage is roughly 15% less damage in comparison to a Nova when using a Storm / Magma / Hail.

So are we safe to never say "30%" and "25%" less again?

Fri, 03/30/2012 - 21:27

Nova-Royal

hmm, yeah but try to test it in other depths to confirm it.

plus i didn't know the community said it was around 25% ~ 30%.

Fri, 03/30/2012 - 22:16

Metagenic

Hmm

It now seems like Magma Driver is a better dps gun than Nova, except for fire levels where I can just use Storm Driver instead. Thanks for the info!

Fri, 03/30/2012 - 22:21

Demonicsothe

+1 for hard numbers Makes me

+1 for hard numbers

Makes me feel less bad about having a volt driver instead of prisma.

Fri, 03/30/2012 - 23:28

Misten

More than enough reason for me

(273-229)/229

equal

19.21% more damage

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 15:23

The-Rawrcake

@MetagenicI never said

@Metagenic

You have to take into account AoE situations as well for Magma vs. Nova, all this test is would be single target. I am sure it is a lot harder to cause fire to an entire group of monsters, but who knows, that'd take too much work to find out which imo lol

@Misten

You divide that by 273, not by 229.

So no, it is not 19% it is still 16%.

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 15:53

Bopp

to clarify

To clarify, so that we don't enter into the dumbest argument ever:

229 is 16% less than 273, because (229 - 273) / 273 = -0.16. So Magma does 16% less than Nova.

273 is 19% more than 229, because (273 - 229) / 229 = 0.19. So Nova does 19% more than Magma.

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 16:35

The-Rawrcake

So magma not only is 16% less

So magma not only is 16% less than Nova, but Nova is 19% more than it?

Eh, whatever, as you said there is no need to argue. Let's just say... 17% ish

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 16:37

Rangerwillx

17.5%.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 03:34

Milkman

It's not 17.5%.. it's two

It's not 17.5%.. it's two different numbers depending on which gun's damage you define as 100%.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 10:17

#10

Pepperonius

Oh god the math hurts my brain

Easiest way to say this... sheer damage is nova. Other drivers are still quite viable as the difference in damage is minimal (less than 40 damage at D28) and can be made up for by status damage, and status effects.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 10:21

#11

Demonicsothe

What's the difference in

What's the difference in charge damage?

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 10:23

#12

Rangerwillx

What damage bonuses did you have for guns when you did these tests? I'm going to make this new character a gunner, and with damage bonuses I assume nova beats out the other alchemers if you're using max damage.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 11:19

#13

Nordlead

derp. 8th grade math comes

derp. 8th grade math comes back to bite people.

I had the same question as Rangerwillx, but not because I want to craft these, but because I wanted to determine if your results were accurate. According to the totally inaccurate wiki with no real information, the nova driver should only be doing 205 at D28 against zombies.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 12:19

#14

Bluescreenofdeath

@ Norblead the OP said with

@ Norblead the OP said with Max Damage in the OP.

273 is 33% more than 205, because (273 - 205) / 205 = 0.33. So Nova does 33% more with DMG Max.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 13:34

#15

Nordlead

I was interpreting that

I was interpreting that sentence as max damage since he was at d28, where as all previous floors will give lower damage output. If that is the case, then ok.

According to the wiki (which I don't really trust for gun damage), the status drivers do (205 - 169) / 205 = 17.5% less damage than the nova driver at base levels. (or the nova driver does 21.3% more than status drivers). That falls inline with the OP.

I've heard people say that damage bonuses aren't a flat 7% and some weapons get more or less. If we assume the Wiki is correct, the gap between damage output slightly decreases with gun damage bonus. This post doesn't really change my opinion on the drivers since I already though that the tradeoff between status and damage was roughly equal.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 15:34

#16

Bluescreenofdeath

I have never seen any

I have never seen any evidence that different weapons get different % bonus for a given DMG+ level. However, the 7% per level figure I have seen tossed about is a very rough estimate & not terribly accurate. It is a touch closer to 6.5% (also rough estimate) and I suspect that it is not a flat rate per level at all, but that it tappers off a bit toward level 6 (I think they are using a more complicated equation that results in diminished returns).

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 17:12

#17

Culture

Hmm

Don't have anything to add to the alchemer discussion, but the damage increase varies quite a bit. Even in the same weapon... When using Medium Damage Bonus from one piece of Mad Bomber, Ash of Agni's elemental blast increases by 11% for Const/Undead, 16% for Slime/Fiend and 10% for Beast/Gremlin.

6.5% is a decent average, for swords across all depths and against all enemy types. It is more noticeably wacky with bombs and guns because they do small amounts of damage. (We have to contend with rounding to whole damage values, after all.) Couple that with not-completely-linear damage equations and you get some unexpected results.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 17:39

#18

Demonicsothe

And then there's the half

And then there's the half normal sword mechanics. Theoretically, the bonus would apply more on the special damage type when used against monsters weak to them.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 06:27

#19

Scottish-Archer

all this talk of numbers but,

all this talk of numbers but, which one is the besy?

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:17

#20

Bluescreenofdeath

Your answer Mr. Archer is

Your answer Mr. Archer is both situational and subject to opinion (assuming that "besy" is in fact baby-speak for best).

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:23

#21

Ndognine-Forums

I think he just missed the

I think he just missed the "T" and hit the "Y" :P

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 08:42

#22

Juances

In theory, with full gunner bonuses, could Nova be better?
It has an higer base damage, wich means a better damage increase, while the fire/shock satus damage from the others doesnt change right?

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 09:47

#23

Demonicsothe

Yep. There are situations

Yep. There are situations where a magma/storm can outdps, but not much. For magma, its when you proc fire on every single enemy. For storm, when you proc all enemies ad have them clumped up.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 13:56

#24

Theirillusion

i see there are a couple of

i see there are a couple of tards when it comes to math here... OMG!! XDXDXD

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 14:54

#25

Fallconn

FALCON PUNCH!

Umbra driver, or Magma, most useful out of the Status drivers i would say is the Storm driver

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 16:47

#26

Juances

We already said Nova has a 15% more damage. If we keep increasing the numbers, there WILL be a point where that 15% ends up beating the extra fire/shock damage, since status doesnt scale up, thus making Nova toally superior without discussion, at least on smaller groups.

All i want to know if that's possible within the max damage bonus cap of the game.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 18:05

#27

The-Rawrcake

around 15% is all we need to

around 15% is all we need to know. Heck, 20% is around 15%. My goal was to do basic math to find out what it is for normal shots (charged shots are important as well, but I'd have to find out about that one later), that is, status alchemer vs. nova.

The test is more for gunners that achieve damage bonus.

Also I am a bit confused on your question, Juances. Maybe I should strip off all my damage bonuses and try this on a higher depth to see what happens?

Edit: OH Nordlead did the math for no damage bonus on the wiki. Thank you. So yeah, damage bonus or not around 15%

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Alchemer damage: Storm / Magma / Hail vs. Nova.