Spiral Knights - The Improvements that NEED to be implemented. To finish fixing the Troika Line... Su8Da51!!!!

The Improvements that NEED to be implemented. To finish fixing the Troika Line... Su8Da51!!!!

47 replies [Last post]

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 14:18

Tsubasa-No-Me

I'm gonna post some complaints that I can see...

The charge now is Useful... Not as damaging as a DA's, Brandish's, or Final Flourish's; But REALLY useful... Currently, the Sudaruska is THE sword to get a large group of monsters where you want them. While the Triglav is good for pinning down a large group, and just Bashing them, Over and over and over and over!

But the combos? Still suck. And My prized Suda (Now with a CTR high UV! ;) gets the brunt of it. The Triggy gets to have Strong Freeze on its second swing, the same Freeze that a Brandish gets, which makes it good to swing=>swing and then forget, for a while... leaving you to safety. BUT, in order for it to be useful, it needs to reliably knock down whatever it hits.

The Sudaruska USED to have moderate stun on its second swing, but it was removed because it is very buggy, when you stun them mid-swing. So the Suda suffers from dealing damage that a STRONG status dealing sword does, low damage. (Seen in DVS and Triggy) Is there any upside to it? Not really.

On the subject of Interruption
Interruption SEEMS to be based on Damage, but its a little more complicated then that. Pre-patch, the Suda's charge did a little less then 500 damage, but barely ever interrupted anything. But now, the first hit of the stun, which does ~100 LESS DAMAGE, almost always interrupts everything. Trojans, Lumbars, all machines.... Everything. This leads me to believe that there is something else making the Weapons Interrupt.

On the subject of Speed
In another thread, an awesome dude frapps'd the Sealed sword line, and a Troika line. He found that, unboosted, the Sealed takes 0.8 secs for the first swing and I Think it was... 1.4 secs for the second. And, surprise surprise, The Troika line took 0.9 secs on first, and around 2 whole seconds on the Second swing. I really don't think that Speed in general should be changed, We don't need a Claymore being swung at the same speed at a Great Sword. (DA) -.- But something needs to compensate for it.

On the subject o-FIX THE DARNED THING!
Sudaruska, Please choose one of the following (Numbered from best, to least in my opinion):

Fix Stun, put back the stun on last swing. I REALLY want to just keep combo-stunning a whole group, which The Suda should be able to... its a friggan Claymore after all. ^-^
NEEDED:Cause the swings not to be interrupted while swinging. It Is the slowest sword in the game, and if you get hit, all that swing means nothing. Do you think being poked by a wolver would stop all the momentum of an obviously heavy weapon? No, not really. It would also be wise to increase the interruption ability of the swords.
Give the first swing more knockback, then, make the second swing launch you forward even more. (slowly of course) Make the hitbox a "rolling" one, following in front and to the sides of the knight as it moves. This will make them more Knockback oriented.
Increase the damage of the second swing by a lot. Yes, I know, its a Normal damage weapon, but it currently is dealing the same amount of damage that it would if it DEALT A STATUS. So... How much damage is Moderate Stun worth, OOO? >:3
Increase the charge dash, Increase stun chance, change stun to STRONG (Not moderate :P) and make the reduce the charge time. (well, if the combo sucks, I wonder if we could ONLY use the charge... {trollface})

Triglav,
Actually, just increase the interruption ability and It'll be good. MAYBE increase the chance of freeze on swing...

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 14:23

Demonicsothe

/reads title +1 Ok, seriously

/reads title
+1

Ok, seriously now.
+1

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 16:01

Vanillateddy

TTTRRIIIIIIGGGGGGGLLLLAAAAAAVV!

Okay I like this it needs implimenting realy some nice ideas

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 16:40

Damienfoxy

Will you nutcases stop

Will you nutcases stop screaming?

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 18:40

Batabii

SUDA51?

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 19:46

Tsubasa-No-Me

Batabii...

Thank you for counting EVERY A in Sudaaa... ...aaaa. :3

~Tsu

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 19:55

The-Rawrcake

Su8Da51 Octasu 51Daide This

Su8Da51

Octasu 51Daide

This thread is a sign for scientific discovery!

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 20:09

Tsubasa-No-Me

Oh Shoot!

Does this mean you can find Sudanolium? The element Sudaruskas are made of?

You know, It's made when you combine a bunch of wood and some Iron found in a volcano... -.-;
Not to mention that we cant chop trees, an there is no volcano...

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 20:21

The-Rawrcake

Octasudanolium 51(Da)ide. We

Octasudanolium 51(Da)ide.

We MUST find out what the "Da" element is, otherwise we will not know the compound that is used to make a SUUUUUUUUDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ruska)

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 20:26

Tsubasa-No-Me

Gosh darn!

Where'd they put that "like" button! >:o

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 20:38

#10

Damienfoxy

DA, diphenhydroclorhic acid?

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 21:08

#11

Skold-The-Drac

TRIGGGYYYYYYY

Currently I scream grinnie half the time. But thoroughly +1 this beauty.

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 21:59

#12

Twiddle

Nerf the sealed sword lines

The sealed sword line is OP. I suggest fixing the problem by nerfing the damage output on the Divine Avenger and Gran Faust.

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 22:14

#13

Tsubasa-No-Me

lulz

to the above.

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 00:51

#14

Tsubasa-No-Me

This is a bump.

Why? Because some asphyxiating madman who likes fisticuffs just happened to put oh, 5-6 threads above EVERY ONE ELSE.... =.=;

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 02:02

#15

Schattentag

Sorry

After seeing so much crap for the past few days, I did indeed become a very mad man, and (needless to say) I snapped. I was left with absolutely no will to post anything constructive on any threads, but a nice shower has sort of cleared that up.

While I am glad that my Khorovod got a nice buff, I do feel that more could be done to balance the Troika line. As you said (and this has been mentioned at least once before), the combo isn't quite up to par. It should reliably interrupt or knock down enemies to make up for the time (and potential damage) you risk by making the second swing. Granted, a skilled user currently should be able to judge whether or not to take that risk, but a reliable interruption would put these guys on the same level as DA/GF.

Regarding interruption, though, I think the reason the charge attack is able to interrupt so well is because it deals X damage within a short period of time. That's why the regular combo can interrupt things.

Contrary to your account, I feel like there have been times where I've hit Jelly Cubes with the first hit, only to have them jump in my face and attack at so close a distance that they dodge the second hit. The same goes for lumbers - I have to get that second hit in before they hit me. Maybe it's just because I'm using a Khorovod, not a Sudaruska.

Personally I don't mind the lack of solid reliability as long as I know that I can adapt myself to make it reliable, but I don't dislike the idea of a slight buff. So +1 from me.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 02:21

#16

Tsubasa-No-Me

What happens when you asphyxiate? You turn Blue.........

You reminded me of something I was gonna put up there, but got distracted by my shiny Suda... Tsu drools a bit

Anywho... gonna update that in a sec... basically, a- well you'll see in a sec...

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

BAM update! Added another lil bullet point up there... :D

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 04:09

#17

Ewbte

"Fix Stun, put back the stun

"Fix Stun, put back the stun on last swing. I REALLY want to just keep combo-stunning a whole group, which The Suda should be able to... its a friggan Claymore after all. ^-^"
+1 for it. I'm happy with other stats of this sword.

I also think they should add stun to Iron Slug.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 06:15

#18

Twiddle

Yes, the DA is OP

Yes, the Sudaruska does not match the power of the Divine Avenger. But, when you look at the DA, you realize that it has incredible range, incredible knockback, incredible damage, fast attack speeds (for a two striker), and an interrupt feature. Of course the Sudaruska is not going to match that because the DA is overpowered. The Sudaruska does not need a buff. The DA needs a nerf.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 09:40

#19

Tsubasa-No-Me

BUT!

The DA is a Longsword, which is faster by nature...
No, it shoulden't be more powerful but... the Suda and Triggy are Claymores, which are hard to swing with one hand, there fore, it makes sense that they trade raw damage for KNOCKBACK and STUN(Freeze).

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:30

#20

Tsubasa-No-Me

Bump.

Because I personally only look at the first page...

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 03:36

#21

Skold-The-Drac

horribad

Tsu... you really were the one who inspired me to go triggy up in here... jus' sayin'

Da's a longsword... speed and damage are the focus

Triglav and Suda are bludgeoning tools with an edge... knocking the opponent off balance and overall manhandling are the focus (you're still slamming em good, but they're gonna be moved a bit more)

Adjusting the freeze back to being capable of happening on the second swing would actually make me pretty ok with triglav... maybe bump the knockback(and knockdown)/ apply more to the first swing..

Just looking for that little bit extra in there.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 04:16

#22

Tsubasa-No-Me

Well the thing is....

Currently, I believe the knockback are the same... :/

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 10:28

#23

Diamondshreddie

+1337

SUDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

yes the Troika lines need more interrupt, that should be their real niche~
because im pretty sure being hit by a giant fuggen sword doesnt leave one in a very optimal position to make a counter attack

and as far as determining knockdown is concerned... try this:

-swing 3 hit combo sword 2 times near an enemy (dont hit)
-connect the final swing with the enemy (prefferably while its attacking)
-demand more interrupt on the troika line swords

im a Suda fan :3
i have both the Suda AND Triggy (but i like to use my Med ASI Triggy)

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 12:36

#24

Tsubasa-No-Me

/weep

I mean really? A single swing from a dinky little blade interrupts attacks more then be hit with a massive Claymore, or a Mountain? (Triglav)

Perhaps they should make the first hit interrupt as well as the second.

I mean LOOK AT THIS THING! >:O!

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 04:11

#25

Tsubasa-No-Me

...

Derp.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 08:17

#26

Zxze

Group stunning is OP

Face it. If they are gonna put stun back on suda, then they need to make it slight chance of causing meager, or low or whatever stun. Cuz if its strong then, thats just Overpowered. imagine lockdown. 4 strikers rush at a guard. Guard takes out sudaruska, BAM, 4 strikers stunned. Guard takes out sentenza, or btb, you pick. Starts pwning.

Every striker thinks this: OVERPOWERED!!!

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 09:24

#27

Tsubasa-No-Me

Get over it.

Strikers are OP anyways, so I think this is a good balance.

Besides, if they are all stunned, its a perfect time to go in AGAIN and hit all of them AGAIN and stun them all AGAIN. In three words: Screw skolver strikers.

If you are giong to be hit by a sword that is literally bigger then you are, I think its more then fair to be a great deal shocked and STUNNED about it. ⌐.⌐

You wanna know why I hate skolver/FF? Because that gear is good. {Thats not a good response, you must be a jelly whiner!} No, good to the point of making the skill of other players meaningless. Then its all about who has the "better" gear, which is skolver anyway. -.-

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 10:27

#28

Diamondshreddie

Adds on to Tsu's Post*

Or FREEZES you with fear ;D?

heh?

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 10:34

#29

Tsubasa-No-Me

YUSH.

That^

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 14:36

#30

Toastnaut

I like these ideas

As a suda and trig user these are some really good ideas to balance the sword without overdoing it.

There are times that I've wished that it inflicted stun on the second swing, but until some of the buggy stun mechanics are fixed, I hope that it doesn't do that.

One of the nicest things about the suda is that when it does interrupt enemy attacks, you can often use it to cancel attacks that are in progress. Inflicting stun would cause them to finish instead and the sword would be even harder to use safely.

If you want to add more ideas to the list, I would suggest a small buff to the attack range of it, given how big it is. The sword actually hits a far shorter area than it fills in terms of animation.

Either (or both) giving it a wider swing (like the rocket hammer gets) which will hit squares off to the side and behind the user on the first swing as opposed to only 180 degrees in front of the user (YES, the rocket hammer hits closer to 270 degrees on a swing) and/or increasing the reach of the sword by 1/3 to 1/2 of a square (maybe only on the second swing?) would be a useful but probably not overpowered buff that would make it more useful and unique. This would also fit well with the sword's niche being knockback, large sweeping attacks, and controlling enemy positions rather than straight up damage.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 15:27

#31

Tsubasa-No-Me

I'll agree with that!

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 19:09

#32

Dukeplatypus

That title just ingrained an

That title just ingrained an image into my mind of Brian Blessed running around in plate mail and a Sudaruska :P

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 19:18

#33

Tsubasa-No-Me

LOL

That is a very fitting picture... ;)

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 14:22

#34

Tsubasa-No-Me

Sigh...

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 10:48

#35

Tsubasa-No-Me

Updated the Suggestions list.

Hopefully made it easier to read as well...

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 15:56

#36

Hijadestone

i dont have

i dont have a slow sword but if it gets all the stuff sugested i might get me one and sealed sword lines are way to strong and fast i cant doge them like a normal slow sword

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 07:11

#37

Tsubasa-No-Me

idkwat?^

Bump.

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 14:08

#38

Serell

@Suda suggestion 1 :

@Suda suggestion 1 : Yessss!!! I want to stun them! Inflict what i hate most on my enemies!!!

@Suda suggestion 2 : Yes! It would help me in LD so much!

@Suda suggestion 3 : Sounds cool.

@Suda suggestion 4 : maybe.

@Suda suggestion 5 : Strong stun would be nice :3

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 19:16

#39

Twiddle

Don't buff the Sudaruska

The Divine avenger is a longsword so it attacks faster. Oh, and a gun (long range charge attack.) Oh, and a bomb (knockback and insane damage from the charge attack.) Oh, and it doesn't give enemies a chance to attack (interrupt feature.)

The DA is overpowered and needs a nerf. The Sudaruska is not as powerful as a DA because it should not it be as powerful as the DA currently is. the DA needs a nerf, not the Sudaruska a buff.

Fri, 04/06/2012 - 21:14

#40

Serell

Suda needs buff

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 01:45

#41

Megatrondf

Suda needs a buff

Suda needs a buff, and the DA is a broad sword not a long sword.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 20:31

#42

Tsubasa-No-Me

/agree

Moar buffs! ...no really... its supposed to be used with plate armor right? Make it be useful when you USEFUL it with plate armor!

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 20:58

#43

Corrionos

Certainly! These changes need to be implemented!

Would you say that Stun needs to be fixed, also?

Three Rings should certainly fix the current issues with equipment before they release new content (DLC, I'm looking at you).

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:18

#44

Gunnerific

Its me demotastic. icurrretly have a toika. the only itneeds is improve the recovery speed. cause the mommen i land teh second hit i get overwhelmed and it takes days to recover from it thus death is more likely to happe

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 01:45

#45

Tsubasa-No-Me

Mmmmmm....

It is a slow sword... it s MEANT to be slow... what it needs is interruption AND knockback... not to mention the slowness is caused by having a status (I think) Having these will make the Troika line much more safe- for the full combo...

Tsu looks up into Skold's eye... and waves. Hai! :3

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 09:49

#46

Bisento

I love my Triglav. Speed isn't much of an issue because I'm most likely wearing Vog armor when wielding it. But for god sakes that sword needs interrupt/knockback.

Every time you hit something with Triglav and Sudaruska it feels like you're hitting your enemy with a mountain. They should react in kind. The second swing should knock nearly everything you hit on its ass just like when you hit a mech with a DA or a wolver or devilite with a Flourish.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 21:16

#47

Skold-The-Drac

Problem...

Look at the above post... does that make sense?

The HEAVY sword can't knock it on it's butt.... but the TOOTHPICK can? For. The. FAIL! FTF!

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The Improvements that NEED to be implemented. To finish fixing the Troika Line... Su8Da51!!!!