Spiral Knights - Dread Venom Striker or Final Flourish?

Dread Venom Striker or Final Flourish?

10 replies [Last post]

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 21:21

Corrionos

First of all, let me state something clear: I LIKE moving swords. Cutter, Spur, swords that really throw you through things.
Regardless, I'm a Winmillion user. I know, I know, it's terrible/whatever. Let me finish.
As there is currently no 5* version (and I don't particularly like taking 15 hits to kill a slag), I'm looking for a replacement.
I'm quite familiar with the Spur line's attack patter, and I'm pretty good with the Cutter series.
I tend to farm FSC a lot, and I'd like to keep a moving sword, as I'm moving towards bombing, and having a sword as my 4th weapon.

*edit - I suppose I'll state my arguments for each weapon*

Dread Venom Striker -
+ Moves you around!
+ Shield at any point in attack
+ Slices through obstacles, even monster clumps
+ Easy redirection while in mid-attack
- Charge sucks with no ASI
- Low Damage per Swing
- Poison isn't particularly useful in FSC

Final Flourish -
+ Charge Attack is decent!
+ Higher Damage per Swing
+ Shield Cancel 1st swing effectively and quickly
- Hard to redirect in mid-attack

So - FF or DVS for FSC?
Post your cases here.

TL;DR- DVS or FF for FSC?

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 21:33

Metagenic

Final Flourish

You can shield cancel the first swing of FF very quickly and reliably. Dread Venom Striker is arguably more fun to use, but it comes at a great risk.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 21:52

Demonicsothe

Both works fine in fsc. But

Both works fine in fsc. But what most people want as a first weapon, is something safe. In this case, FF will work better. Neutral damage on zombies, effective on trojans. Your second weapon will have to cover the rovers, but one can handle most of them in relative ease, even with a toothpick.

About your pros and cons:
FF will move you around too, and arguably further and faster than dvs. The full combo carries you fairly far. One trick you can do is, shield cancel the first hit, then complete the combo. What happens is that you swing the first hit twice, then the last hit in the combo carries you from your standstill point to somewhere 2-3 squares away. Yes, this does require some premeditation, but either you pay more attention to the surroundings while solo, or trust your teammates to back you up.

The charge attack of both swords require getting used to, neither are as safe as other weapons. A mis-aimed ff charge will throw you into the midst of many enemies, and at best, miss and nothing happens. A missed dvs means you are swinging away while enemies poke your sides. It does have a longer charge than ff, right? If so, that makes dvs even harder to manage.

Another thing to note is that dvs has little to no interrupting ability. So while you are certainly hacking through a crowd, zombies are free to retaliate. Granted, ff requires a full combo to interrupt, and is harder to aim into a crowd.

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 22:04

Espeonage

FF's first swing will let you

FF's first swing will let you get a lot of space during the levels.
DVS is excellent for Duke himself (if you're going to cover bomb control, it's a great damage source for his mask phases)

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 05:30

Corrionos

Certainly

I suppose I'll have to play around with a Flourish and see how I like it, get used to attack patterns, etc.
On that note, I suppose something to be brought into consideration is whether BTB or FF would be better, if I do in fact go for a Flourish-line weapon?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 06:09

Bopp

FF and BTB equal, but maybe go with FF

DVS was my first 5-star sword, so it holds a certain place in my heart, but I agree with the other posters that FF/BTB is better, even for FSC.

"I suppose I'll have to play around with a Flourish and see how I like it, get used to attack patterns, etc.
On that note, I suppose something to be brought into consideration is whether BTB or FF would be better, if I do in fact go for a Flourish-line weapon?"

The two are extremely similar. My comparison is here. If you insist that I pick one over the other, I'll pick FF. The charge attack can do colossal damage to a small group, and you said that you like swords that move you.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 06:11

Fradow

Flourish line is considered

Flourish line is considered by some people as the most powerful weapon for a reason. Meanwhile, DVS is a "fun" weapon (and by that I mean underpowered).

For your first choice, I would go for FF. The only exception is Vanaduke Mask, where DVS is one of the best weapon due to normal damage. But you carry it for that only if you already have other weapons to deal with the rest, which is not your case.

As for BTS vs FF : both are exactly the same save the charge and the look. Both charge have their use, but chances are you are mostly going to use the normal swings, because they are OP. The FF is a bit dangerous, because the animation is long and you can land in the middle of a pack if you are not careful, making you vulnerable, while the BTS is safer but harder to use to it's full capacity (you have to be very close to land all the spikes).

But hey, between having a toothpick and having a classy black rapière firing a Snarby hologram, the choice is easy : get a BTS :p

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 06:39

Bigfootm

HRMMMMMMM.

@Fradow

DVS isn't really UP at all. I use it in FSC with my loadouts 99% of the time, and it seems it out damages my FF against Duke.

Against Duke:

DVS
•Can "kite" around easily in P1, with the bonus of poisoning him for the benefit of the team.
•Destroys the Mask in P2/4 like no other, I wouldn't use a different sword.

I think I en up doing 1.1k+ a combo, will have to check again.

FF
•Decent bit of damage, can't "kite" around him.
•Not much damage to the Mask.

Also, are you sure you don't have Toothpicks OP in Lockdown, instead of FSC?

I'm not saying this as of FSC is hard (for me atleast), but from what it WAS like for me.

@OP

I'd go with the DVS, personally.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 07:22

Fradow

Well, DVS is a niche weapon,

Well, DVS is a niche weapon, and in my vocabulary, niche = underpowered. Because if it was equal to other weapons, it wouldn't be niche.

I agree with your points against Duke (and in fact, DVS is in my fourth slot just for that in FSC), but I still find the weapon lackluster otherwise.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's unusable : it is, and I do sometime use it for the fun.

No, I didn't talk about toothpick being OP in FSC (I should have been more specific I guess), but in general. They are clearly OP in Lockdown, but I was already considering as one of the best weapon before LD was out. They clearly exceel against their intended target, and are also good against non-intended.

Also, in my opinion, Flourish lines are way easier to use than DVS.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 05:57

Nubskills

Nyan nyan nyan nyan....

As a personal preference, for FSC, I would go Flourish for the speed and damage, plus I used to substitute it with a Spur sidearm in my early SK days, since I found the mechanics to be similar. For vana, I would prefer DVS over FF for reasons already stated. For general clockworks, I'd say DVS is better as a bomber sidearm, but seeing how you'll be farming FSC alot, I'd recommend FF. Certainly helps in lockdown, too.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 08:17

#10

Sentinel-Zx

The flourish is prefered

The flourish is prefered mostly because of it's shield cancle, fast attacks, and a decent wide frontal attack. I prefer the flourish over the cutter line. A flourish is very handy against wolver packs and with the shield cancle you can easily pick out those pesky fiends so they all don't throw something at you while still attacking whilst the cutter would leave you open for a small amount of time.

Although I don't have a DV or its beast counterpart, but I've seen enough from other players. I like my FF more and it's proven to be handy.

Oh yea the FF does have a decent far hit range.

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Dread Venom Striker or Final Flourish?