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Pilebunkers

14 replies [Last post]
Fri, 04/13/2012 - 22:28
Fireflywater's picture
Fireflywater

Classification: Sword. Even though it's not technically a sword, well, neither is a jet hammer.
Description: A powerful, gunpowder driven nail used for breaking rocks and punching holes in the ground. But has recently taken up a handheld version for combat use.

General traits: The extreme end of "slow swords." if it hits, it'll send the target in a far knockback and generally do heavy damage.
Attacks: A bomb of swords.
>Regular combo: 2 physical whacks, does weak damage but pushes the enemy away in order to obtain breathing room to charge or change weapons. Doesn't push the player around.
>Charge attack: The nail explodes forward at glorious inertia. The main attack. Does heavy damage and heavy push, moves the player forward a small bit (maybe half of a striker swing) and leaves them about 0.25 seconds vulnerable after the attack has been executed.

Alchemy Tree:
3 Star - Normal - Small Pilebunker
No real additional gimmicks.
>4 Star - Normal - Standard Pilebunker
No real additional gimmicks.
>>5 Star - Normal - Ruthless Pilebunker
No real additional gimmicks.
>4 Star - Normal - Hydraulic Piston
Natural CTR:Low, decreased knockback, decreased damage.
>>5 Star - Normal - Pneumatic Piston
Natural CTR:Low, decreased knockback, decreased damage.
>4 Star - Pierce - Sharp Jackhammer
No real additional gimmicks.
>>5 Star - Pierce - Outstretched Jackhammer
Increased range, decreased damage.
>4 Star - Elemental - Burning Nail
Good chance of weak fire, decreased damage.
>>5 Star - Elemental - Inflamed Nail
Good chance of moderate fire, decreased damage.

Why?: The slowest of swords isn't slow enough and isn't powerful enough. The Pilebunker would add an interesting game play style for those who don't want to press M1 and then shield cancel as their main attack for slow swords.

Fri, 04/13/2012 - 23:27
#1
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Hold your hemorrhoids

This may get messy.

1- Controversial

General traits: The extreme end of "slow swords." if it hits, it'll send the target in a far knockback and generally do heavy damage.
Attacks: A bomb of swords.

We already have slow, hard hitting swords; see Troika and Sealed Sword lines. The bomb relation lacks explanation. By the way, this is an image of a "pilebunker"; a horizontal jackhammer. I would address how giving a sword the area of effect of a bomb would be ridiculously overpowered, but that would discourage me from criticizing the rest of this selfish fodder.

>Regular combo: 2 physical whacks, does weak damage but pushes the enemy away in order to obtain breathing room to charge or change weapons.

The sentence above this said heavy damage but it now does weak damage. Also, why would a jackhammer "whack" enemies away? What do you do with it, swing the whole thing? We already have swords for that.

>Charge attack: The nail explodes forward at glorious inertia. The main attack. Does heavy damage and heavy push, moves the player forward a small bit (maybe half of a striker swing) and leaves them about 0.25 seconds vulnerable after the attack has been executed.

This is a jackhammer, not a rocket launcher. Stay focused on the subject. "The main attack" is not relevant in this context as all weapons only have two attacks, basic and charge; no further titles exist. Again, heavy damage for a weapon which is supposed to be based on pushing enemies away, even though shield bumping already does this. A fourth of a second is not long enough to be immobilized after a charge attack of these mechanics.

2- Awkward upgrading changes

Upgrading it makes you do less damage and kncokback in exchange for a charge bonus or probability of fire. Making a charge reduction on the weapon itself is entirely selfish and will never exist, same to attack increase as a natural part of the item. I assume this means you want to have more powerful UVs on your own equipment but are too cheap to use Punch or craft. I am not even going to address the damage and knockback reduction as its very existence insults the whole thread.

3- Make up your mind

Heavy swords have a wide hit range and slow swing speed. Bombs have decent area of effect damage or various other effects, such as statuses. A jackhammer with both of these abilities is as mechanically possible as digging to China by tying balloons to your wrists and pretending to be a chicken in the middle of a busy street.

"The slowest of swords isn't slow enough and isn't powerful enough. The Pilebunker would add an interesting game play style for those who don't want to press M1 and then shield cancel as their main attack for slow swords."

By these sentences I can identify you as someone unable to shield cancel. Either use another type of sword or use a gun. No self respecting demolitionist would make a thread as selfish as this. No, it would not be interesting to have an overpowered area of effect weapon taking the role of everything except guns.

If this thread was for a weapon which takes the place of shield bumping I would have automatically hated it, but it took me a total of two seconds to hate this one. It single-handedly insulted two weapon types and itself while dropping a honker in its own pants and jumping on it. I hope you are proud of yourself.

Effort: 3/10
Creativity: 0/10
Detail: 5/10
Mechanical applicability: -10/10*
Profits Three Rings: 0/10

* This is an entirely selfish concept which attempts to implement an overpowered and abusable item. This is also an insult to demolitionists.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 03:32
#2
Kentard's picture
Kentard
TL;DR,

Badly thought out, recycled mechanics with very skewed statistics, and absolutely out of context given that you want to implement a jackhammer without a jackhammer's mechanics (which would be even more out of place).

-1 from the largest equipment contributor on the Suggestions Board.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 04:30
#3
Tsubasa-No-Me's picture
Tsubasa-No-Me
Yeah, but I started before you! :P

...I think... :/

Anyways.... if you wanted to make this work, youd need a Heckofalot of work on it -.-

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 09:59
#4
Fireflywater's picture
Fireflywater
Seriously?

The wonders of video games is that one can make anything whilst still being balanced. It'll take much testing, research, and ideas. But it is possible.
I already know what a pilebunker is.
"The bomb of swords" is implying that the pilebunker's greatest trait is it's charge attack. Much like how bombs are useless without charging, so is this thing. No where I ever said that it had a built in explosion. The non-charged attack is there for those who screwed up with the charge or had no time to and must pull out another weapon. The non-charged attack acts like a rifle butt, per say, "They're too close to shoot."
The attack, uh, hitbox is long and narrow. Because, well, it's a pilebunker.
The rest of that post is merely noncontributing insults, incorrect assumptions, and just trying to find something to get mad about. Like how the Prismatech Alchemiser gets more damage but no status effect to it's cousins. That's the firey one.
When suggesting an item, I must be wary that it can be implemented within the game's engine. Now, I don't know what the game engine can take and how. Like, I would suggest an automatic weapon that loses it's charge for, well, automatic fire. But I don't know how that would work out.

If there's anything I can make clear, please. I don't want to get yelled at and flamed. "Worst contribution" isn't helping.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 10:13
#5
Juances's picture
Juances
~

In this game you need to take the offensive. No one will buy that low damage but knocback crap. Besides such knocback would break combos or bother your nearby allies. Really, you make it sound like it functions exactly as a shield bump, but also takes up an extra weapon slot.... And there already exists a weak sword with huge knocback, its called Leviathan Blade--> plus its free if you do missions

i cant see why would i want to craft such useless not-new thing, when there are better alternatives that do the same already for free.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 10:40
#6
Kentard's picture
Kentard
I resent that.

The rest of that post is merely noncontributing insults, incorrect assumptions, and just trying to find something to get mad about.
This is basically a Troika with less damage and more knockback.

As much as I would like to credit the OP for his idea, the whole thing is uncreative at best.
As for the 'testing'; we already have similar weapon in-game. If necessary, extrapolate from those weapons - say, do 25% less damage than a Levi but deal 33% more knockback.
And in any case, there's no point testing something that already exists (just with different statistics).

I vote no on the grounds of creativity, and if you want to question my credulity, I humbly invite you to read some of my posts.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 15:47
#7
Fireflywater's picture
Fireflywater
Remind me that these forums are terrible.

Want me to reword everything I said up there in a more simple wording? Fine. You guys won't listen anyway.

It's a pilebunker.
Normal attack whacks people with he weapon itself. Weak but pushes enemies away. If you don't know how this animation would work, go play an old WWII FPS. You know, the good ones nobody hears about.
Charge attack is whatever pilebunkers do. The jackhammer function. Very high damage, much higher than Troika's 2nd hit. Also pushes.
Hitbox is thin but long. You can easily hit 2 enemies if one's behind the other.

The knockback [i]only[/i] gives the thing enough time to charge before the enemy comes back. It's entirely for a desperation and a versatility feature. If it doesn't have this, it'll be extremely weak and nobody would use it. Shield can't push constantly, nor can they damage.
Pilebunker isn't a main weapon. It's too slow. If used appropriately, it can 1-hit enemies in their respective stratum.

See? That wasn't too hard to understand now was it? Now you'll re-read this post over and over again to find how many things you can blatantly make up.

I still don't see what I'm doing wrong. It's a suggestion, if it's not perfect, then [i]how[/i] is it not perfect? Is it not a Divine Avenger? Is it more powerful than Divine Avenger? Is it never going to work because it's not what you would use? Is it because I'm new? Or maybe we should just remove everything from this game except for Vog gear and Sealed Sword variants? Everything is but a variant upon itself. Why pick the Fireburst Brandish when it's just a clone of the Iceburst Brandish, but slightly different?

I doubt this will get added anyway. I have yet to see any case in any game whereist a suggestion is actually seen and implemented in the game. Now watch someone post a link to a TF2 post or something that got added. I frankly don't care.

Nevermind, I'm going to suggest a sword. It's a combination of the Dread Vile Striker, the Divine Avenger's charge attack, and the Blitz Needle's burst. It'll cost 3000 CE. Rapid Sword Shooter. Surely this community will love it.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 16:02
#8
The-Ark's picture
The-Ark
You are receiving criticism

You are receiving criticism because your idea is simply not one that would be good for the game. Your saying the Pilebunkers charge is why it's worth having, though it's not much better than the Leviathen Blade or Warmaster rocket hammers charge attack. And they both have useful normal attacks.

Also: Apparently the Snarbolax armour from shadow lairs was suggested in the forums (I'm not sure about it but that's what i heard), and it's in the game now.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 16:29
#9
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
I will listen to text

The main issue with this thread is how a horizontal jackhammer does everything you claim; do you swing it like a blunt weapon or pound the internal organs out of something in front of you? I found this page which is essentially your post but the two make no sense together. Yours makes it sound like something you swing like a two handed club, the other an illogical melee weapon designed to break through armor. What is it best at, knockback or damage? Is it supposed to be used like this, a two handed weapon? I can understand a thin and long hit box; we already have that for the second and third swings for rapier swords.

The basic attack knocks the enemies away, yet we already have shield bumping. This is not a first person shooter. Shield bumping does not damage for a reason.

It is not intended to be a main weapon yet can one-shot most enemies; this alone makes it too overpowered to exist. I can understand if it can one-shot some of the weaker T1 enemies in the first few floors, but nothing after that should be able to kill in one hit except some charge attacks of weapons of the next tier star ranks.

It may seem like it at times, but most threads I am able to read; the "I hate the energy system" and "I want pets/dual wielding/free CE/other stupid selfish whining" threads tend to melt onto each other sometimes, but this thread is not one of them. I understand you want the mechanics of this weapon but keep in mind the golden rule of all equipment: it must not be overpowered. Everything overpowered is instantly shot down and picked apart by vultures who necro the thread to spite others. I can understand a jackhammer, but Autogun essentially already does the effect this weapon appears to do but as a melee weapon. Assume when using content from other games as reference no one knows how it works; no one knows what you mean. The basic attack as an elbow bump makes sense but will not be implemented due to the existence of shield bumping. The charge attack seems to activate the piston battering, destroying enemy armor; does this break monster shields (Gremlin, battlepod, et cetera) or just damage in rapid succession? The first would be overpowered, the second is already done through Autogun.

Suggestions not being implemented in the game? Have you seen Polyps and Howlitzers, or the +2 charge on the Volcanic Demo Suit? Almost all of the content, including Lockdown, came from suggestions. The threads may be buried under all the "I want free elevator use", "I want lower prices", et cetera fodder threads but they existed and were taken to the front lines. Suggestions matter. I believe Shadow Lairs came from here from bored veterans. I remember the Howlitzer thread.

Is this what you meant for the weapon? If so, this is the most overpowered thing ever. You can run up to anything and one-shot everything and Spiral Knights has no ammo restriction, only clip sizes. Nothing in the game will ever work like this. Never.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 16:40
#10
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl
Lolhttp://cdn.memegenerator.

Lol

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18584018.jpg

Edit: in response to fly's irrational rage of decent criticism

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 01:06
#11
Kentard's picture
Kentard
Take it easy, boy.

@OP:
First things first,
Allow me to ASSUME that your weapon's normal attack is mainly for KB, whereas the charge attack is specialized to take out immobile enemies with ease.

If you don't know how this animation would work, go play an old WWII FPS. You know, the good ones nobody hears about.
Irrelevant.

Charge attack is whatever pilebunkers do. The jackhammer function. Very high damage, much higher than Troika's 2nd hit. Also pushes.
Remind me how you are going to hold the weapon with your hands, given that it is relatively large?
Also, doing 'very high damage' and 'pushing' contradicts each other, unless the knockback is extremely minimal or the damage is dealt in a single hit, which goes against the 'jackhammer function'.
Welcome to weapon mechanics 101.

The knockback only gives the thing enough time to charge before the enemy comes back.
If it doesn't have this, it'll be extremely weak and nobody would use it. Shield can't push constantly, nor can they damage.

As with most swords' normal attacks; this is not my main concern.
And it won't be "extremely weak" if you scale the damage up a little.

The Pilebunker would add an interesting game play style for those who don't want to press M1 and then shield cancel as their main attack for slow swords.
You will need to depend on your shield eventually. That's why they were implemented in the first place.
And if you are using slow swords, you are at risk of being more vulnerable to attacks. Consider that into the design of the weapon if possible.

Everything is but a variant upon itself.
The examples you use are in the same line. Not the point; you're suggesting a new line of weapons altogether.

Unfortunately, you're making a Troika clone with a new charge attack mechanic - it essentially has the same function as a Troika; i.e. KB and high damage to a single target upon a charge attack.
Granted, one of the lines can inflict fire, but this is a marginal concern.

Want me to reword everything I said up there in a more simple wording? Fine. You guys won't listen anyway.
See? That wasn't too hard to understand now was it?
You're invited to attack our arguments, not to commit argumentum ad hominem on us by implying that we are stupid.
Similarly, I dismiss your idea as uncreative, but I have no right to call you 'stupid' because one idea was bad.

And don't rage like that. You're only making yourself seem very immature.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 02:04
#12
Shue-Donnym's picture
Shue-Donnym
sandwich

lolragequit

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 08:24
#13
Bluebrawler's picture
Bluebrawler
Whoa

TL;DR

Not at kentard the topic

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 08:30
#14
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
At least you are getting better at this

I can summarize it in one phrase:

"I want a weapon that one-shots everything."

The end.

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