Spiral Knights - Tank Armor! Normal Damage! Interruption! Knockback!

Tank Armor! Normal Damage! Interruption! Knockback!

29 replies [Last post]

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 09:35

Tsubasa-No-Me

So, we all know that Normal damage Is not very good at the moment, and that The plate lines not have much to say about them. So! I have a fix for that...

For all armor:

Normal defense increases resistance to knockback
Normal defense increases the amount of damage required to interrupt you

For all weapons:

Normal damage increases the knockback the weapon gives
Normal damage has more ability to interrupt

What this will do:

Allow Normal damage to have that less damage while still being useful.
Make Plate lines more useful as tanking armor.
Some weapons will be more "flavorful" e.g. Iron Slug and Troika line.
Balance LD weapons e.g. Troika and Ancient will be a viable set due to being able to attack without being interrupted by a piddly toothpick.
Guardian Class will be able to keep hoards back with heavy sword without fear of being interrupted.

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 09:38

Sirenblue

Most monsters still do some split normal damage in T3

Learned it the hard way: My shadow defence setup has 0 normal defence. Never seen so much red bars on the floor.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 09:39

Luguiru

Plate & Troika

I have another idea. Give the Plate lines resistance to knockback and leave everything else alone.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 09:42

Metagenic

umm

Everything has normal damage, bar shot projectiles (turret bullets/rockets, Gremlin flamethrower projectiles, Kat bullets, Retrode beams, Greaver bullets, Mecha bullets, etc.)

And normal damage weapons aren't really that bad in the first place, I can roll through most of T3 with a Leviathan and Nitronome (except for fiend levels).

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 09:46

Alpha-Stevo

I think pure normal armor

I think pure normal armor lines should have the hidden advantage of being able to take a reduced amount of damage from special damage types. Not too grand of a reduction, but something of one.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 10:21

Tsubasa-No-Me

@Luguiru

-1

Its really not enough.

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 10:49

Mk-Vl

@TSUUUDA-No-Me

I'm with Luguiru on this one. What you're suggesting is a little OP but it is good

Edit: and by that I mean do everything you suggested but only with plate lines and troika lines

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 10:35

Extribble

+1 to everything except this:

+1 to everything except this: "Normal defense increases the amount of damage required to interrupt you"

Right now, any damage will interrupt. Allowing normal defense to prevent this (to a degree of course) would alter the game's mechanics more than I think is fair.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:18

Tsubasa-No-Me

Hrmm...

The reason I say this is the plate lines currently have no real bonus. All offensive gear outclasses it. If you make it tank like then you can be defensive and shove the foes off with ah heavy sword... and actually GET them off.

How else would you boost a defensive piece of gear... Give it an offensive boost? Then its not really defensive at all now is it? -.-

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 16:38

Luguiru

We may be missing something

It is possible the normal defense for Plate lines is actually over the visually notable limit. It is also possible I have a button on my back which makes me transform into a unicycle.

I would be for giving Plate a defensive buff. You lose attack speed, it should give something worthwhile.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 18:15

#10

Tsubasa-No-Me

Yes.

And that's what I'm suggesting... If you don't think that my suggestion fits, lets come up with a new one, kay? ^-^

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 18:34

#11

Crimson-Cataphract

This seems to be another request for Suda support...

...since the slow swords would benefit more from knockback/interrupt resistance than any other weapon type without becoming broken and of those the Troika line is the only one (I can think of) that doesn't have a long ranged charge to offset the lack of speed. However, the same boost would make some faster weapons too powerful, so I feel a simple defense increase would have more chance of being implemented.

I use a Kamarin on my main Knight so I would love some interrupt resistance on any gear, but that would lead to replacement of Wolver++ clones with Plate++ clones (and mass quitting of the former, I imagine).

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 18:34

#12

Marona

Good in some areas...some in not

I think that some armors like the Ironmight plate series could use some knockback resistance. Slow sword weapons could have chance of knockback.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 19:30

#13

Tsubasa-No-Me

Mmmmm...

Well, Wolvers to Plates? I dont think so... I mean, the Plate is Defensive only, It gives Negatives to any sort of offence...

And I feel that this would not be too OP to implement, Also, wolvers are not going anywhere... -.-

But it would give more of a boost to weapons that would be flavored similarly... Heavies would get a bit of a boost, and brandishes less so... But pure normal would have not only a purpose, but be useful without having to have crude damage boosts. (Crude because its the first thing people think of when they want to buff something)

The only possible downside I foresee is the first hit knocking foes too far away on the first hit, and being unable to hit on the following ones.

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Edit: I'm sure that the plate lines have more then the "max" shown amount.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 03:44

#14

Psychodestroyer

Idk really about the main idea, seeing as I don't use the Plate line, but...

I SEE THRU YOUR EBIL PLANZ.

ANOTHER HIDDEN APPEAL 4 T3H HEAVY BLADES BUFF? ICWUTUDIDTHAR!

http://the-tech-guy.net/wp-content/uploads/im-watching-you-meme.gif

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 04:42

#15

Infidelslayer

I support this cause!

It is time to punch them Wolver puppies back to their mommas!

And I like being a Tank :).

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 05:38

#16

Crimson-Cataphract

To cull Wolver numbers

Just give all other 'Swordsman' sets Sword Damage and ASI bonuses to replace what they currently have. Either that or make DPS less crucial somehow. The most effective option will always be the most overused and the only way to prevent that is to have multiple options at the top of the effectiveness scale.

I'm saying this as a Wolver user. I prefer the look of other armor sets but the damage bonus is just too tempting.

EDIT: Went back to the wiki immediately after posting because I got a sudden bad feeling. Sure enough, I was wrong about Skolver.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 06:34

#17

Tsubasa-No-Me

Ummm...

But then... We are ALL Wolvers in sheep's clothi- err, other armor sets... And that's just as bad. Besides... Plate armor is supposed to make you slow and heavy, not speed you up, or increase damage.... Lizards don't increase damage except to slimes... It just doesn't fit...

Fact is, making everything have the same kind of boosts will not help anyone... It'll more hinder everyone else...

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 07:31

#18

Arctifice

How about...

Greater normal defense increases shield strength, but only after a certain amount.
You can hand wave it as additional beef on your shield arm or something.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 07:46

#19

Bluebrawler

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 09:36

#20

Neodasus

guardians in lockdown cannot

guardians in lockdown cannot be knocked back

this type of armor already exists they just haven't implemented it for pve

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 12:19

#21

Canine-Vladmir

/applauds

xD +1

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 13:26

#22

Grittle

+0.5

wait if there is more knock back for normal weapons, what happens to pepperbox, valiance, and other normal damage guns(besides iron slug)

im for the plate line buff and normal defence buff, but some guns don't need that much knockback, so a +0.5

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 14:24

#23

Tsubasa-No-Me

Clarification:

The knockback increase would only be applied when there would be knockback. E.G. supernova yes, Iron slug, no.

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 14:43

#24

Alran

Wait...

Now wait a minute.

I was always under the assumption that Normal defense added 20% of itself to the other defenses which was why armor with a ton of normal defense did OK against other damage types, but not as much as armor that was specifically made to defend against it, and which is why most armors with secondary defense types had a little bit less that it would normal (except for certain armor types, like Jelly). Although now that I think about it, I don't recall where I heard it from, it was just shortly after the game's launch, so this could very well be a load of nonsense.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 16:41

#25

Iapnez

Normal defense only protects

Normal defense only protects against normal damage.

In reply to another comment, in Tier 3, a very very large portion of attacks are purely special type damage. Retrode beams in Tier 3 are 100% elemental. Gun puppy bullets are 100% elemental. Howlitzer bullets are 100% shadow. Kat bullets are 100% shadow. Polyp and lichen colony spikes are 100% piercing. Kat BITES are part shadow and part normal. There's why normal defense needs a buff more or less. Plate mail and helms are about near useless in Tier 3.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 21:42

#26

Hexzyle

As a rule of thumb, energy

As a rule of thumb, energy attacks deal elemental, dark attacks deal shadow, and piercing is obvious. Impact damage causes normal damage, so every melee attack will at least be partially normal damage.

So yes, normal armour can already kinda tank melee damage, (while suffering a penalty from ranged attacks) it just needs a buff to be better at it.

I intend to test how good VPM is at fighting vana and taking his mace hits. It seems like the perfect armour for it.

Tue, 04/17/2012 - 22:31

#27

Fehzor

You gave me an idea with

You gave me an idea with this. I posted it.

"Air sword"

PS:
Normal damage increases the knockback the weapon gives
Normal damage has more ability to interrupt

Big angry bomb and SUDARUSKA will win the heavy weight knockback championship before running off together. Nitronome and DA/GF will still be used. But don't tell Big angry bomb because she is embarrassed by her knockback, although she knows that SUDARUSKA understands her.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 02:01

#28

Crimson-Cataphract

Just for laughs

I'd like to see all the Suda's knockbacks vastly increased with no other changed to its abilities - i.e. the regular attack would knockback almost as far as the charge currently does and the charge would knock enemies halfway across the level. Peoples' reactions would be priceless.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 03:06

#29

Bolgron

I had the same thoughts, just not as coherently. Much love.

With the thoughts on gun knockback, just stick the sword symbol next to the buff. Boom. Or, actually, bang.

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Tank Armor! Normal Damage! Interruption! Knockback!