Spiral Knights - Demons and Undead gripes

Demons and Undead gripes

15 replies [Last post]

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 07:00

Datareaper

I dont think I qualify as a new player after just having completed my Valkyrie set and have a Cold Iron Vanquisher, but despite those items I have the hardest time vs tier 3 devlites and undead.
I cant begin to count the number of times my entire team has gone down to a salvo of office chairs all at different times, shielding and trying to close with the devlites only results in them dashing ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE MAP to get away, and by then anyones shield is down. Whats even worse is the attacks that come from off screen when I think I've finally gotten one cornered.

And tier 3 spookats drive me insane, between their dash backwards to do a triple shot attack and their lunge I can barely find an opening to attack. The Spookat can begin its "Melee" attack at distance, and quickly lunge in to hit you with it, and if you shield as soon as they move in to attack, you will shield bump them right back out of range. Where they will continue to kite you around basically. Combine this with 3-5 other Spookats and you have the same recipe for failure I experience all the time.

I have awesome darkness resistance, Increased damage vs Undead and Demons, and yet I take THE MOST damage from undead and demon tiers.

Can there please be more variety for those types? Can a zombie PLEASE spawn with spookats sometimes? Can Demons PLEASE get a melee monster, so demon levels arent 100% composed of office chair sniping assassins?
It feels like theres no strategy I can use, I'm just under constant fire from both types of enemies. The only way I can hope to kill some is use the invincibilty frames I get from being hit and try to hit as many as I can.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 07:08

Xombie

I have awesome darkness resistance - Datareaper.

Har!

I hate to say it, but CIV is a lie. Get a DA/AP for zombies. DA/AP works really well for spookcats as well, but really you just need to study their movement patterns.

For the devilites, you need a pokey sward. Step with shield, poke, shield, poke, rinse and repeat.

Zombies do spawn with spookats at times.

Keep playing and have fun.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 07:19

Datareaper

I dont need armor to fight

I dont need armor to fight even 20 zombies if I move around correctly and time attacks. But Spookats are just outrageously mobile.
And I dont think I've seen more than 2 zombies in the last few days doing missions related to undead and the undead stratum a few times.

It's kind of upsetting the CIV is a lie, I thought it looked awesome and was roughly like the leviathan blade in damage.
Why is it so hard for developers to just put numbers on things? And let players come to correct conclusions?

Darkness, Shadow, Spookyjuice, whatever.
PURPLE DAMAGE. bleh.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 07:18

Juances

Ok, I'd understand your hate towards devilites a bit, they can be pretty annoying.
But KATS?!?!?! sigh..... l2play.

Meow

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 07:22

Datareaper

I detailed exactly why I have

I detailed exactly why I have a problem with Kats. And I'm not talking about tier 1 or 2 kats.
Basically once theyre aggro'd on me theyll either stay at range spitting at me, which is fine. I can use that to approach them by dodging the shots.
But when the entire group of them decide to start melee attacking me and my group, a bunch of us die. Because they can start their melee attack at range and dive towards you. And when I go to shield in time to prevent that, the shield will bump them back to range. Where its right back to melee attacking or spitting.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 07:35

Orbwanter

Nah, Kats are definitely one of the nastier T3 enemies, and are a huge jump up in difficulty from their T2 counterparts. Shivermist Buster is good both for wrecking Kats' mobility, and keeping Devilites stuck with their backs turned. Voltaic Tempest is good on Kats as well, tends to interrupt them while they're dashing. If you don't want to get a bomb, you could try picking up Glacius or Voltedge and spamming the charge attacks on them. I've come to like the Warmaster Rocket Hammer for Kats as well, the dash hits them reliably due to their being less affected by knockback.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 07:53

Bluescreenofdeath

^ Yeah the Hammer is the best

^ Yeah the Hammer is the best for splatting kitties

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 08:10

Bopp

CIV weak, but decent if used correctly, if that's possible

Yes, when kats are spewing projectiles everywhere, things can get nasty quickly. A key tactic is to entice them into using their melee attack, instead of their ranged attack. That is, try to stay close to them. As long as you aren't the only person fighting a crowd of kats, you can shield a bite and kill the attacking kat. (If you are the only person fighting them, then you have to be more subtle. For example, try to aggro only one at a time.)

Levi/CIV are pretty weak swords, except in their charge attacks, which are great. And CIV's charge attack is arguably better than Levi's, because the decreased knockback means a higher chance of landing multiple hits. If you are not charging your CIV a lot, then you're not using it to its full potential. However, in a field of kats you often don't have time to charge. In that case, CIV is simply a weak sword.

As the other posters have noted, you really want an elemental sword to fight undead, not a CIV. And you want a piercing sword, to fight fiends. Indeed, a piercing sword will completely change your view of fiends (although they still require skill). For more detail, try my sword guide.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 13:32

Datareaper

Thanks for the advice, I'm

Thanks for the advice, I'm not complaining to get things changed really, I just wanted some help. And frustration eventually boils over.

Spookats ive noticed seem to dash in to melee you, but start tracking you, so if you move behind them, they will slowly glide near you and face you. So you either shield and get hit (sometimes by like 4) or chance it and run, which can result in taking anywhere from 0-4 full hits.

Back when I got this CIV people were talking about Levi and CIV being top tier swords, and CIV in their eyes was better because of the extra damage to undead. I guess things changed. Maybe the sword should be changed or buffed? I dunno. Still, mine has the UV for minor charge time reduction, so thats cool. And I do charge it a lot, and try to get enemies near walls for the full 3 hits.

I still think there needs to be more enemy variety though. Too many Kats and Devilites.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 13:36

Kraanx

u should also know that

u should also know that combo-ing a kat will stupify it for like 5 seconds, so u could use those for a killer hit, right?
as for devilites... buy a jetpack. if you by accident enter a fiend stratum, activate it through the /nothingtodohere emote

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 13:55

#10

Kitty-Softpaws

I dont need armor to fight

Let's see you talk that big talk on small rooms with traps & objects in the way. Or maybe you do like the gun puppy massacre when you have piercing/shadow defense as armor & shield. Mmmmm < 3

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 14:06

#11

Datareaper

Can shield bump a mob of

Can shield bump a mob of zombies away to buy time at least, A Kat swarm will just dive right back in mob me. And Gun puppies are like bullet hell games, I do ok at those.
Im not trying to appear like a pro or anything, just saying what I dont have impossibly hard trouble with. I'm just a doofus who uses Valkyrie Mail and a CIV because I thought it looked cool, getting obliterated by demons and undead.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 14:43

#12

Bopp

they haven't changed

"Back when I got this CIV people were talking about Levi and CIV being top tier swords, and CIV in their eyes was better because of the extra damage to undead. I guess things changed."

The situation has not changed, at least in the past year. Perhaps you were talking to the wrong people. Sorry. Normal swords were always general-purpose, not specialized; it's baked into the rules of the game.

Yes, CIV does more damage against undead than Leviathan, but if you're actually a top-tier player, then you have big damage bonus anyway, and that CIV advantage vanishes. I mean, I'm pretty sure that a Leviathan with Max! damage bonus outdamages a CIV with Max! damage bonus, even against undead, just because the CIV's special bonus is going to waste.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 14:45

#13

Datareaper

Cant imagine why this useless

Cant imagine why this useless sword even exists then.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 14:50

#14

Orbwanter

Reasons to get Cold Iron Vanquisher over Leviathan:

* You want a weapon with less knockback than Levi.
* It matches your armor and you wanna look GOOD.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 16:43

#15

Alchemystic

You don't want to chase T3

You don't want to chase T3 Kats if you can avoid it. You are better off waiting for them to come towards you. Around Kats, I don't drop my shield unless I'm attacking or need more running speed to retreat. These tactics have served me well at Candlestick Keep.

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Demons and Undead gripes