1) How much damage bonus would you need to one shot a slag guard in a 4 man party with the charge attack?
2) Overall, is it worth getting?
About the Fang of Vog
For 1), I have a friend with FoV, Glacius and Barbarous Thorn Shield. According to him, one Glacius charge to hold a Slag Guard still, then a FoV charge to kill it, in a 3-men party.
I say it's better than combuster. The self-fire isn't really a big issue because, like GF, it can still cause the status without charge, and if you have good fire resistance it only does a pip or 2 of burn damage regardless.
Except the the only reason to use FoV is the charge and there's no reason whatsoever to use its normal combo over any other sword.
Currently I use Blitz charge attacks while running the slags up and down the side walls in order to kill them, and it takes a few charges to finish them off. Would the quicker kills be worth getting the FoV for?
Are you kidding me? it sets enemies on fire whether you charge it or not. And it's about as powerful as divine avenger.
So does Combuster. It's about as slow as DA and does ~60 less than DA's first swing on the first 2 hits and its last hit does 100 damage less than DA's 2nd hit, without knockback. Combuster, also inflicts fire, is faster, does 30+ more damage with every respective hit, and has a generally more useful and less suicidal charge attack.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Divine_Avenger#Damage
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Fang_of_vog#Damage
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Combuster#Damage
Literally, the only reason to use it over Combuster, or any other elemental sword, outside of aesthetics is the charge attack (and it has a damn good charge attack).
I agree with Dukeplatypus on this one. Leviathan Blade, Cold Iron Vanquisher, and Fang of Vog exist for their charge attacks. Their regular attacks are mediocre.
Flists, if you have an extra weapon slot, then FoV really is great for slags. It's my fourth favorite weapon for FSC, after elemental sword, Blitz Needle, and Shivermist Buster.
It's a crying shame that the 360-degree slash charge isn't on higher-utility weapons because (imho) it's just about the best attack pattern in SK.
What are you talking about? None of the brandish line cause stat effects on attack, you have to charge them.
And FoV is only marginally weaker/slower BECAUSE of that on-hit fire.
As for "less suicidal", that's only a technicality. The FoV charge doesn't always set you on fire, and if you have high fire resistance (for example, volcanic salamander + divine veil) you'll only suffer a pip or two of fire damage, even in tier 3.
For the record, my current FSC loadout is Blitz Needle, Gigawatt Pulsar, and Dark Briar Barrage. I don't even bring a sword half the time because it's not only unnecessary for slags but fairly useless against most of Vana's stages
Whoops, my bad. My lack of swordy-ness is showing. Still, if we're talking FSC, which we are, that fire is irrelevant and combuster out damages it every time.
For the record, my current FSC loadout goes something along the lines of Polaris, AP, Blitz, and the hammer. AP is pretty much interchangeable with shiver/a driver/a hipster gun/whatever I'm heating, it depends on the circumstances. I like to bring the hammer because I *really* like the playstyle and I've gotten quite good with it. The hammer is also my only sword above 2*, so there's that.
Every time? I doubt it. Try using the charge attack against slags, trojans, or even vana himself when you can.
That said, you're still better off just skipping fire weapons in fsc entirely.
Dukeplatypus: "Whoops, my bad. My lack of swordy-ness is showing. Still, if we're talking FSC, which we are, that fire is irrelevant and combuster out damages it every time."
Batabii: "Every time? I doubt it. Try using the charge attack against slags, trojans, or even vana himself when you can."
Batabii, that's exactly our point. The charge attack on FoV is awesome. The regular attacks are mediocre. Apparently you agree?
Leave it. Batabii is hopeless. Arguing with him is a total waste of time. I agree totally with Duke, Bopp, Crimson, & most anybody else who has used the bloody thing (FoV).
FoV's regular combo is garbage even with DMG & ASI both Max and the Fire from regular swings is worthless, as a better sword would have just killed the silly monster outright long before it had time take enough fire damage to matter...
fov is a nuke, and that's its main use, to realize its full potential you need something that nullifies knockback on the enemies. I pair it with Shivermist for that. But you can synergize with other weapons or your teammates too.
Being a nuke its main use is to remove danger quickly. As such its great for big guys and masses of enemies. Again it synergizes with Shivermist which primary target is the same type of enemies although more defensively oriented. You don't care about losing hp because you are saving hp for the team by removing these threats as soon as possible. But you still look for fire protection on tier 3 because the fire hurts badly otherwise.
fov is less appealing when you aren't facing these type of situations (eg fighting weak monsters, one at a time, fov will not be as good as other swords).
vs slag guards if your team doesnt need you back soon then blitz should be enough, but if you are in a team where you must defeat the guard and also help your teammates on whatever else then you'll enjoy having fov so you can do that earlier. Also the deed feels extremely natural with fov, you can't possibly screw it up, and need very little room (you only need the water corner). Blitz is easy but still has bigger chance for error.
FoV is a fun little weapon, and is definitely worth the 40K crown opportunity cost to attain it.
Sure, if by "mediocre" you mean "average". Its combo is only marginally weaker than combuster on enemies you can't ignite.
Fehzor what do you mean 40k crowns? Why would you pay crowns for it when you can just just beat vanaduke a dozen times and reap the rewards of the FSC?
And yes, I own FoV. It's my favorite Elemental sword.
She means that you have the opportunity to sell a piece of ancient plate for 30k instead, effectively valuing seals at 1k ea., hence valuing FoV at 40k.
I'm not even going to bother continuing debating with you why FoV is only decent for its charge because clearly you are unable to accept that anyone might have an opinion separate from your own.
Clearly you are unable to accept that FoV's normal attack is almost as good as combuster's, even without the Strong Fire.
Batabii, look at the Lancer Knightz DPS data. Comboing a Brandish does 547 DPS, while comboing a FoV does 409 DPS. Yes, this is comboing at full speed, so it's a theoretical max that may not be realistic in many situations. And there are other ways to measure damage. But the point is that a Brandish is faster, and does more damage per hit, so that its damage can be significantly higher than FoV's without the fire status.
In short, 409 vs. 547 is not "marginally weaker"; it's significantly weaker.
Bopp is right with the regular attacks and Batabii is wrong. I always carry FoV in FSC and from experience I know that the regular attack is so slow it is painful. If it was the same speed as a brandish I'd actually use the regular attacks for more than finishing off a trojan/slag guard. It isn't even the DPS that Bopp points out that is the real problem. It is that monsters can hit you before you finish your combo. With a brandish I can finish my 3-swing combo and push the monster away or interrupt him so I don't get hit. So I can land 6 consecutive hits on a zombie and finish him off no problem with a brandish, but I can't do that with a FoV. Also, the fire doesn't make up for the lack of DPS because fire doesn't do 140 DPS. (note, I use ASI Med, DMG Max most of the time) So, if you have a FoV it must be a 2nd weapon, not a primary weapon because it poor for regular attacks.
With that said, I LOVE it for the charge attack. People are amazed at how fast I can clear a room with FoV. Group a bunch of zombies together, then watch them explode while you run around on fire!! In the room with the wolvers I can clear the entire first wave with a single FoV charge in a party of 4. I drop a VT, a teammate drops a electron vortex, and then I unleash 1 FoV charge. As noted earlier, the charge works best with something to hold the monsters in place or group them together. VT, Shiv, and vortexes work well (in order from worst to best).
batabii also doesn't know what he is talking about with FoV and self damage. You do much more than 1-2 pips of damage with 2x max fire protection in T3 (maybe only 1-2 pips of damage at D19). But considering you'll have a 12 vita, you'll have plenty of health to use FoV multiple times without having to worry. To further counter all of batabii's posts, I commonly FoV vana to death while other teamates blitz. Not hard to pull off if you know what you are doing. You only need 2 inside fire orbs removed and just rotate with the other 2 on the opposite side of vana. I've done other sword runs with people using Dread Venom Striker on vana for every phase and using no shiv at all. Swords are extremely effective against vana, but not for people in-experienced with vana.
For your original 2 questions... 1) with max damage you should be able to charge + combo them and then they will be dead. With max damage, you can 1-shot trojans up to D25 in a 3-man party but you have to let the fire finish off the trojan. However, that doesn't stop you from killing trojans before they do anything at all. It is fairly easy to unleash a charge then one 3-swing combo and finish them off before they can move.
2) absolutely. I use Vog cap + snarbolax coat UV Fire High and that is more than enough fire protection all the way to the core.
Are you joking? Have you EVER used faust, divine avenger, or troika? FoV is nowhere near the slowest sword in the game. And you're forgetting FoV has STRONG fire. I can't find any concrete numbers on the wiki how much the various levels of burn do, but strong fire definitely tacks on a ton of damage. Why worry about finishing a combo when you can shield-cancel? And not everyone can afford the best possible UVs, I'm only talking default here.
You're forgetting to shield. Shielding, believe it or not, reduces fire damage. When I'm on fire from FoV and I shield in tier 3, then it only does a few pips. And I don't see how you can get more than max. That's like saying infinity + infinity. In the status menu, no bonus ever exceeds Maximum!
Using FoV against vana is possible, but first you have to get rid of a ton of fireballs in the last phase, which is risky, slow, and painstaking, so it's not very efficient. I don't see how you can "rotate with them", yet still not get hit by ANYTHING and have time to charge attack.
Resistances aren't like weapon bonuses. A max UV just fills the bar as far as Vog's innate fire resist. AFAIK, useful status resistance caps at Max + Max + High.
I used to periodically run FSC with Nordlead (not now because I have way too much homework and too little time to do anything other than RJP/IMF/Rise or Fall). He uses a Combuster as his main weapon, and I'm pretty sure I've seen him bring his Fang of Vog along a few times. Therefore I can say (with proof) that a Brandish's normal combo OWNS Fang of Vog's normal combo. It's noticeably faster and does much more damage than FoV.
"Are you joking? Have you EVER used faust, divine avenger, or troika? FoV is nowhere near the slowest sword in the game."
Quite true. But let's just clarify that a bit. DA/GF combos faster than FoV (32 combos per minute vs. 28, at ASI Medium). Of course, those combos have only two swings, so the individual swings are slower, as you say. And DA's single-enemy DPS is not any higher than FoV's (412 vs. 409).
However, DA's swings are wide and long, so that they can achieve big multi-enemy DPS. And the swings knock back enough to make fighting multiple enemies safe. The same goes for GF and WRH, and Sudaruska and Triglav, and maybe even the first swing of a piercing sword. These wide and long swords simply have a different tactical niche, than do the narrow swords (Brandishes, Cutters, Caliburs, FoV).
Sadly, FoV's regular attacks have the low damage of a wide sword, without the width and knockback. They make up for this somewhat with fire, but fire kills slowly, so it works in some situations (e.g., kiting a crowd of constructs) better than in others (e.g., kats that must be killed as fast as possible).
I don't know that any of us is learning anything or convincing anyone, so maybe this thread has run its course? Cheers.
You're getting a five star weapon for free, even if you don't see it as free it's essentially a prize you get JUST for playing the game.
In all seriousness, it's a great sword. It might be the slowest light sword (or three-strike sword/whatever you want to call them) but it's a great and powerful one. It has the ability to inflict fire on all three swings AND it's charge attack which happens to deal a lot of damage due to it's ability to dish out multiple swings in quick succession. It's also possible to use it against beasts and gremlins, as the fire damage is decent damage compensation. Not so good in FSC because the fire damage utility is void there, but still good if you lack elemental weapons. Overall it's a very useful sword, the slower swings and painful charge attacks are why this sword is perfectly balanced. Yeah, it's worth getting.
I've explained why FoV is a great sword. However, I won't explain silly things like "DPS comparisons" because I'm not a raging elitist. Have a nice day, and enjoy the knowledge.
"I've explained why FoV is a great sword. However, I won't explain silly things like "DPS comparisons" because I'm not a raging elitist. Have a nice day, and enjoy the knowledge."
I understand. You value your opinion highly, so you expect others to adopt your opinion, even without supporting evidence.
No, my previous post isn't purely made of personal opinions. I've given you the facts, everything you need to know about the Fang of Vog.
I only made a joke on why this game is filled with tons of elitists. But what do you mean "without supporting evidence"? Are you implying that everything I've said about the Fang of Vog is a lie?
Gee, you kids need to re-think your posts more often. Nevertheless, OP has been given many different answers to his question, as well as quite a bit to think about, and I hope he enjoys his decision whether to use it or not. It's a very viable sword, but it's outclassed because the brandish series is overpowered in terms of charge attacks, and at the end of the day more people seem to enjoy spamming a broken charge attack than using the Fang of Vog. If anything, FoV could use a slight buff. Either that or fix the other weapons so it's not outclassed.
So, is FoV a "great and powerful" sword (post #26), or is it more of a "viable sword" that "could use a slight buff" because it's "outclassed" (post #28)?
This is exactly why we keep having these threads about FoV. On first glance, many people assume that FoV is unequivocally awesome. But then, when they think more about how it actually works, they realize that it has advantages (charge, fire) and disadvantages (low raw DPS, narrow swing) relative to other swords. As far as I can tell, you and I totally agree on FoV's merits.
No, your post #26 contains no lies. It contains some facts ("slowest light sword", "inflict fire on all three swings", "fire damage utility is [almost] void there", "dish out multiple swings in quick succession") but these had already been thoroughly discussed in this thread. It also contains some semi-facts ("charge attack which happens to deal a lot of damage", "the fire damage is decent damage compensation"), which could be turned into facts with supporting damage data. That's why I was taken aback by your apparent contempt for DPS data. They are simply an imperfect, incomplete attempt to quantify damage. I don't see why anyone would want to NOT know them.
Geez people gotta stop calling people kids when people disagree with them.
I actually admire FOV first time, but after seeing the damage line, I see it is weaker than the brandish line. Plus, I hate fire because it resist my shivermist. Shock works much better because it does not resist freeze or fire. That is why I love voltedge. FOV is useful only for the charge (almost never seen anyone using FOV except for the charge, except my stupid friend who use it all the time and he buy it with CE, lol), and basically brandish is much better. If you don't like brandish, choose DA instead.
1. It's not possible to one shot slag guards with the charge attack, regardless of max damage. Though, it will heavily damage the slag guard, and a follow up combo should execute it.
2. Yes, the charge attack, provided you have enough fire defense, immolates anything short of an oiler, beast, or gremlin, even without the status. Especially good vs. trojans, a Fang charge will reliably one shot with max damage in 2 man parties, and you only need a follow up slash for three man parties.