ya sorry Hadn I didnt mean to say all that stuff about gunners, but now that I have said them, so yes anyone can go heal, but the problem is swordies rarely get away, and bombers almost NEVER get away to heal, but gunners.. if they plan to go and heal, only a VERY skilled striker/Mob can stop him from doing so.
I guess you are right its the gunners twisted tactics(playing with innocent minds).. my anger is unjustifiable there.
but about gunners/bombers doing the hard work, I disagree, I have not seen too skilled bombers who can stand their ground when attacked, most get killed quick, but yes there are some good bombers, but status bombing is easy enough. Gunners.. they don't cap at all.. many dont especially the pro ones, they do well distracting strikers, but cant always kill them, so we are looking at a mob of raging strikers who go back to heal after killing the gunner, then come and wipe all the peeps who were trying to cap.. I guess its hard to aim as a gunner but meh they dont do much to actually win the game.
But as I said Sorry for this no hard feelings gunners =)
Rebalance to Lockdown?
"We live in alaska,"
Can it be? Other people who live in Alaska who play this? I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE! YES!
@Asukalan Having been in the same guild with him for months I can assure you that he can more than handle a polaris. His statement was an over exaggeration so don't take it so literal. Stop calling him out for being a bad player when I doubt you've even played against him.
@Asukalan
I'm going to jump in with Hadn here.
If you look at this thread, you will see Jaroche's name pop up many times. I looked up your name, and it doesn't pop up at once.
With that, and having shot several polaris shots in Jaroche's direction, I can say he can most definitely handle polaris spam, and then kill everyone who was shooting it before they could blink.
If you were to read the thread a bit more closely, because apparently you like to make claims based on information you just merely glance at without understanding, you would notice that Jaroche, myself and a few others, conclude that the polaris makes the game less interesting, and that there is an imbalance of skill between using the gun and dealing with the gun. We're taking our past lockdown match experiences and reflecting on it and asking, "How could the metagame for lockdown be more interesting for all?"
In the case that you don't play PvP (since I've never seen you in a game once, nor made that list), I'm sure you've run into this in PvE too, but polaris spam can also be annoying in a party as it knocks away your target.
Jaroche = alpha skolver.
If only i could put hair on my shadowsun hat :(
+1 to Lockdown Balance
-1 & +1 Cuz Didn't Read.png
(School Comp, Cry about it.)
As long as I can still use my Firecracker in t1 (I have max ctr but it doesn't make too much difference really, just allows me to place more, it's usually stupidity that gets people killed while fighting me xD I am distraction!) I'm all for this idea of having a number of set lock down load-outs to choose from :)
~The Mighty WeeGee
Wait, so you want to remove Polaris because it makes the game less interesting for you? I don't Polaris spam choke points much any more (if at all), but I'd prefer the weapon stay in the game, as it's an effective counter for cloaked recons when used properly. Just because YOU don't like that weapon doesn't mean everyone dislikes it. You said it yourself, it's not hard to counter, just go around or bring a Guardian Shield. You say removing it will make the game more interesting, but what about the people who use it? Maybe using it is fun for them, and removing it will make the game less interesting for them. How is that fair? Removing a weapon you can beat and making the game boring for someone else, so it'll be more fun for you? Seems pretty childish to me.
As for the actual "balancing" aspect of this thread, I've seen many people do quite well with many different loadouts. Some people are just more skilled with their loadout than you are with your counter-loadout, and you still get beat. For example, to counter the Rocket Hammer, I pull out Dread Venom Striker. Against someone with equal skill, it's an effective counter, but someone who's better with their Rocket Hammer can still cut me down. Does having your counter get beat by what it's supposed to counter mean the game is unbalanced? No, that just means you got outplayed.
Screw you guys.
If it hurts your feelings that i have too much latency to fight certain people then too damn bad. Cry for me.
Just remember this silly little java mini-game is closer to angry birds than chess or starcraft or virtuafighter 5 (games of high end skill and decision making).
@icycloud, your jealousy is showing. Don't hate me cause i'm better at making crowns and ce and can afford nice acceossories. The failure is in you, not me.
What exactly does Polaris "beat" so hard that people seem to be having so much trouble with? Is it because you don't end up with effective Guardians on your team who are willing to throw up their shields for you so that you can break through most of that garbage in the first place?
From what I've gathered after watching Lockdown for a while, I think the balance isn't all that bad. People seem to have a good grasp on what does what, and I still see Flourish Strikers making short work of people who spam the Polaris.
@Sypsy Jaroche, you and few others can say whatever they want, even that Polaris makes the game 'less interesting', the forum post will take anything.
"rebalance it to be more interesting for all"? Oh please, stop with that "for the greater good" attitude, who you are trying to fool, kindergarten kids?
As soon as this 'rebalance lockdown' thread starts you pop out from nowhere with idea to remove one certain weapon, exactly one, Polaris. Nothing more, nothing less. It just shows your true intentions, your personal agenda just to remove Polaris from LD and even from game? Under cover of 'improving LD for everyone'.
How does poor Polaris can make game interesting? Lack of fancy weapon like Polaris could make game less interesting, removing something is making game less interesting.
Or maybe the poor Polaris is threat for some 'players on toplist of LD players' and they using their questionable authoritate and influence* and they want to remove it from LD or even game, under false excuse. Remove the only one thing that seems to 'annoy them' or rather stop their dominance on LD battle field?
*or maybe just few who out of nowhere want to remove one certain weapon
@Pawn
I know that feeling of latency. Living in Alaska sucks for stuff like this. I can get a 3 ping to the GCI server in Anchorage, but I'm hard pressed to get under 100 ping to anywhere in the USA. Guh. I think that instead of grouping people based on region, it should group them based on their PING to the region's server. Though... that means I'd probably get matched up with you and Rommil, and subsequently destroyed. XD
So it looks like there's really only one thing they should do to balance LD, and that would be to add more servers and decrease latency. I don't know how much money OOO has but I doubt the game is profitable enough for them to afford even one more server so that's out of the question. Otherwise It's all pretty balanced except for that swords do so much more damage. IMO striker recon and guardian all should have bomb+gun DMG increase low or medium so there's more diversity.
Mk-Vl, they don't even need to implement more servers until they have the money. Just make it so Lockdown and Blast Network groups people by their ping to their region's server, not just by what region they've selected. This would put Alaskans in with the West Coast of the USA and West side of Canada, while the people on the East coast without lag would get other people on the East coast without lag. Guild Versus Guild wouldn't be affected by this, though.
@Asukalan
You like to make claims based on information you just merely glance at without understanding.
Again, you did it again. Reading comprehension not your strong suit, hmm? You can sure type very eloquently, but your thoughts are abrupt and poorly put together. Your statements are predicated on assumptions you've filled in yourself, and then you just keep going. It's clear you actually haven't read the thread fully. I'm disappointed because you're not actually adding to the conversation, like the discussion between Pawn and I, or Jaroche's comments earlier.
@ Malsvir-Branea, :D finally someone who understands!!! GCI internet, that is exactly what i'm talking about. lol, and our latency isn't surprising after you see those GCi commercials that look like they were filmed with a flip phone!!!!
@ Mk-VI, that is a fantastic idea. gun dmg/bomb bonuses on the shields. And actually, a bomb fuse time decrease would work well in pvp for all the reasons that it wouldn't work in pve. IN pve it would mess up kiting. In PvP ur foes simply look at the fuse timer and walk out of it before it goes off.
@Pawn
Exactly! If they'd beef up the infrastructure between our state and Washington (which is the first hop outside of Alaska I get if I do a traceroute) then we might be able to get better pings! Heck... I'd love more than a dopey 1 megabit upload speed! We sure can download... but what the heck happened to our upstream?
Alaskans unite! :D
You guys are Confusing me with Alaska & Asukalan. Stop it. ;-;
@pawn I'm not the one whining for balance lol... go ask Tennis how he's so successful at pvp while living in Alaska. (Funny, I'm not in US, stuck in >110ms ftw).
~~~ Polaris ~~~
This gun basically kills the niche for various guns:
* Takes the knockback from Valiance.
* Status chance from Storm Driver.
* Damage amount from Nova Driver.
* Higher clip than drivers.
* And their bullets are incredible big (4 - 6 squares) with slow speed that basically blocks a huge area.
And you guys were asking about sword balancing? lmao. Funny how those who urge for balance in lockdown, forgets to mention how unbalanced polaris is. Why would you use a storm driver (which I love) when you can use this incredibly stupid-easy-to-use gun? Supernova kinda makes sense, Polaris doesn't.
Thankful most polaris spammers just fire all the clip at the same direction, so they are dead-easy to kill (just wait for reload pause, strike GF combo, ????, profit.). Having +3 players spamming polaris at a choke point is just lame, sure there is always another path, but usually means wasting a lot of time. In Ramparts you can basically block 4 points, and the other path is way to long.
~~~ General balance ~~~
If by balance you want the same gear you use in the Royal Palace to be successful at FSC, then why do we even have different armors/weapons? just give us proto armor and vanilla sword. Just like there is a dominant gear at Royal Palace or FSC, makes sense must be one at Lockdown.
PD: lmao at the guy who says I have a personal agenda.
You do have a point about the polaris line. The thing is is that it is a unique line with a special purpose- to be relatively ineffective except at long range.
The only way I can think to balance it without destroying it's usefulness whatsoever would be to not have it explode unless it hits something, like how the alchemers don't split unless they hit a person or wall.
EDIT: Also maybe the final bullet size could be a bit smaller. Like halfway between what it is now and a catalyzer bullet. But this is a less needed change IMO.
Personal agenda is:
I didn't ask for rebalance. I explained where I believed where I thought Rommil (altho I can't actually speak for him) was coming from, and why I thought there was an unattended bias. Rommil and I come from an ultra competitive FIGHTING game player vs player background. In a fighting game, there are no optimal builds, and the games merit is based utmost on balance. If there was a fighting game where there was a Wolver fighter who was always dominate, and you could less optimally niche gunner fighter, or niche bomber fighter, the game would be laughed out of the room.
And you do have a bit of an agenda. I said that my experience with lockdown varied from what you wished, what you want lockdown to be. You WANT lockdown to be an evenly matched pit of skill vs skill and who can best the other man. To see who's the better man. I simply said that my experience was not that. My experience is that some people cannot be engaged because they hit me with their sword when their avatar is gun range or longer away. An advantage that cannot be overcame. You could not kill thrillhaus on my computer at my house jaroche. You could not. Simple as that. No skill in the world would allow u to outmaneuver him. (sure blind-dumb luck one in 20 tries maybe). Then you called me a joke. How so? Because my experience is different from yours? Does that make sense?
As far as 'ask tennis how he's so successful @ pvp in alaska' or 'my ping (is allegedly) this bad'. Tennis's experience of PvP does not effect my experience. Whether he has a better ping, or better computer, or whatever happens on his spiral knights when he plays PvP has no effect on the fact that when I engage certain strikers they are at an impossible advantage for which I cannot compensate. BTW, it's not only great players. There are often times a guy hitting me with a sword, wearing seerus mask and shadowsun, and i cannot engage them. They'll end the fight with 3-5k dmg. But fact of the matter is, when i approach them, there is a discrepancy of what they are doing on my screen and what is happening to me.
So my question to you. How does that make me a joke?
I will point out once again, I have maintained that these players are better than I. And given a perfect connection they would still steam roll me. But at least i'd get to compete and lose. Rather than watch them swing 3 ft away from me in random directions and kill me.
IMO your opinion that polaris is op is silly. I simply don't like how it functions in LD. I think polaris is a weak gun, but that it retards the flow of pvp. It's almost like you have someone shooting a bomb for spacial control. It's easy to dash around. It's easy to go to a different node. But imo it functions poorly.
no matter what gets changed I'll still beat you
unfortunately we'll never know whether that is correct or not.
My idea how to fix LD
Fix flourish line range, make it 60-75% of the current one
Give wolver line a negative status resist on something (like the shadowsun & mad bomber have)
Drop GF attack radius to fit the animation
Make a cap on how much HP a class can have, IE strikes will always have 4-6 hearts less than a guardian no matter the trinkets, recon 2 hearts more than striker. I know a lot of people will disagree with this one but come on, striker with more hp than guardian beats the purpose of having classes in the game, striker = high risk, high reward
Remove autoaim, it causes more balance issues than anything else
Remove the negative effects from plate sets and give them normal+specific defense type+specific defense type. Make them the true tank set.
At this rate, why don't we just remove lockdown all together.
Seriously guys, all you do is complain. If you really don't like it that much, don't play.
If everyone but on "OP" skolver gear, there would still be those few people that are way better than the others.
It's not as easy as it looks. Anyway you slice it, something will seem "unfair" to someone.
Hint: You have to actually play Lockdown against players that are better than you to get better at PvP. Who would have thunk it.
So what if something is "unfair", or someone is "too good". Put up, or shut up. Work harder.
Once you realize that there is no one that can really win every single time, you'll start to appreciate lockdown a little bit more.
Also, YOU CAN WALK AROUND POLARIS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WALK INTO IT.
oh hell to it all.
for whatever reason, even tho i'm logged in as rommil, its posting this as pawn. edit, delete. good day.
i would not even bother trying to get any rare accessories . Your lack of understanding makes me laugh . Please accept the fact you are not part of regular LD players . Why dont u close up your door and be a sexy crosss dresser in real life ? Perherps accessories is your only thing you can talk about. You have no skills in Pve , no talent in pvp. What can you do ?
It's ok for you to says I'm jealous because everyone that knows me I'm not . Sorry I won't waste my time here talking to a barbie doll anymore .
Bye
your jealousy is showing again. Do you want me to explain to you why you should thank me, instead of jealously hate me? I'll even do it in game if you want to save face? Again, when it comes to the ability to afford nice accessories, the the failure is in you not me.
BTW all this cross dresser derogatory comments is against forums rules. Somewhere on SK there is a crossdresser who you are greatly offending. Mind your manners and show some class.
Good luck trying to get Three Rings to rebalance Lockdown. I honestly don't see it happening without completely changing the way a majority of the weapons work. It would also have a major effect on PvE.
The only way I could see this working is if there was a PvP game that gave you a preset gear and UI loadout like in Blast Networks. But I mean honestly, do you really think this will be done? Perhaps if there was a more reliable developer running this game. PvP rebalances are probably the last thing they're looking at. I'm sure Three Rings is eagerly planning more promos and expansions for money.
I hope there aren't any hardcore gamers out there that take this game seriously. It's pay to win. The only reason I ever had maxes and very highs was through a year of FSC farm. Who's going to have the patience to do that? And even then, I only had around 6-8 maxes/VHs. I admire your efforts to better the PvP in this game though.
Just a few more items to sell and I can finally say adios to this game and move on to the big names. At least I can say that SK did its job as a gap filler.
I'm assuming the recent pawn posts are, in fact, by rommil on the same computer.
anyway, I find it disconcerting that nobody discussed classes. Striker is the reason the traditional skolver/ff/gf loadout dominates so often. why?
1. movement speed is the most important aspect of PVP games. it doesn't matter how strong you are. if someone can keep chipping away at you without taking a hit, you are useless. the movement boost from striker, therefore, is the most powerful special ability. you can't interrupt it. you can't keep up with it unless you're also a striker. it will dominate the non-strikers in ability to capture and maneuver. bar none.
2. it increases both the attack speed and damage of the best weapon type in the game. this wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that you had the agility of the movement burst. because you can get close to people real fast, having fast attack speed at high damage with the best weapons in the game is insane. you are simply faster than any other class. bar none.
3. equipment. let me explain. you say that there are plenty of different weapons and strategies to employ. gunners, recons, bombers. sure! thats fine. but when was the last time you saw a bomber suit give pierce defense w/o a UV? or shadow? make no mistake, gf range > da range. you can't be a bomber w/o at least 1 piece of bombing gear. and once you do that, you now are crippled in your protection against the 2 best swords in the game. and don't get me started on resistances! want freeze resist on bombing gear? stun resist? get a UV. want shock resist? go do a shadow lair.
3. cont: gunning isn't quite as bad as bombing in terms of gear penalties. sure, if you want pierce defense, you sacrifice your damage bonus, but at least you get some stun resist. but if you want that damage resistance? congrats, you got yourself some useless poison resist. and you still can't maximize both your asi and damage without resorting to trinkets.
3. cont: meanwhile, on the swording aspect of things, you have two options for damage bonuses to your weapons. one comes in piercing defense, the other in shadow defense. not only that, but both of them give you a nice freeze resistance. while this leaves you vulnerable to shock, you forget. you have incredible mobility. if a shock bomb is annoying you, go somewhere else (or pull out a polaris. but that isn't even necessary). the best sword weapons both have counters to you readily available. and what do we have to counter you? elemental weapons. like that hammer! wait... you get 1 of them. IF you buy the dlc. and then have to spend insane amounts of money to get an asi uv. so, really, you just have to gamble on how many FFs to GFs you'll see.
while weapons are certainly better/worse than each other, it is the striker class that makes things unfair.
Here's the best idea that doesn't require a single nerf:
Have lockdown "casual" and lockdown "competitive"
Two separate ques for each tier based on a permanent ranking. This way I don't have to play with scrubs like you guys (thanks for dragging us down every match, appreciate it), and you don't have to become damage fodder for someone else.
At the height of their fame and glory
They turned on one another
Each struggling in vain for ultimate supremacy
In the passion and depth of their struggle
The very art, that had raised them
Through such Olympian heights was lost
Their techniques, vanished.
Duel of the Iron Mic
It's the fifty-two fatal strikes
Duel of the Iron Mic
It's the fifty-two fatal strikes
Protip; if you want to kill a thread, you need to make sure it leaves no shadow when you move it to Graveyard.
*Hint hint*
Let's sing!
You always see it on TV
Read it in the magazines
Celebrities who want sympathy
All they do is piss and moan
Inside the Rolling Stone
Talking about how hard life can be!
I'd like to see them spend a week
Living life out on the street
I don't think they would survive
If they could spend a day or two
Walking in someone else's shoes
I think they'd stumble and they'd fall
They would fall
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallll......
Lifestyles of the rich and the famous
They're always complainin', always complainin'
If money is such a problem(looking at you Kitty-Softpaws), well they got mansions, think we should rob 'em
After that the song doesn't really apply to this situation. Finish it at your own risk.
Just an idea but.. remove completely or severely minimise the knock back from polaris?
I wouldn't remove it because the people that spent several thousand ce getting asi vh on them wouldn't be very happy.
Also maybe minimise how large the first sweep attack is for the piercing swords.
"he is one of the better players of LD" And yet he is the one that cant deal with one single silly weapon, and only option for him is to remove it from ...
It says more than thousands battles fought in LD