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You guys need to chill out. You're taking this the wrong way.

27 replies [Last post]
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:12
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

People seem to be raging over the idea that OOO does not care for it's players...introducing '[fecal matter]' like the few updates in a 'money grabbing attempt'.

Pardon me for thinking, but I don't think OOO really has an obligation to care for it's players.

Thinking in a purely business-like manner, as a company, OOO WOULD try and make as much money as possible. They WOULD add things like CE promotions and other things in an attempt to entice more paying players to pay. It's a game they made to make a profit, you can hardly blame them for trying.

If OOO DOES care for it's players, then, yay? Big bonus? Yarly. We should be grateful if OOO cares for the players at all; it says nowhere in their contract that they HAVE to keep us happy, just that they need to be able to run a game profitably.

I know, I know, happier players=more paying players, but really, most of the hate is coming from players who feel cheated out of their previous spending gone to waste.

The last thread I saw before this update was after the Mirrored Lockbox one. The guy was demanding that OOO give him mirrored lockboxes to compensate for the money he spent on the game while waiting for a new 'freebies' promo.

That's ALMOST what's going on now. Players are feeling cheated out of their money because they spent it before to get all their UV's/stuff, then OOO comes out with a system that would have made that SO much easier.

It's a gamble guys. It's like buying ce off the market only to find the ce price drops the day after, which happened to me today (really), or all the players who got the cobalt gear recipes only to find you get them free from the missions (I admit, I was a little irked at that too), except different and on a larger scale.

I GET that you guys feel cheated, but you can't really blame the company for it; they're a company. They're SUPPOSED to try and profit from the game they made to MAKE a profit.

Yeah, you have the right to NOT be happy about it. Just remember that OOO doesn't owe it to us to keep us happy. In a business perspective, they don't really have to care. For every player that leaves, probably another 10 or so join, and probably 2 of them paying players, so you leaving won't really be a big deal (No offense, really).

None of that OOO suckup-er fecal matter either. I thought this up purely from and on an objective opinion. I am not implying anywhere and do not support at all the idea that rage-quitters leaving the game over lost money from an unforeseeable change are stupid, and I do not think of OOO as an entirely heartless company, but I also would NOT put it past them to make 'Profit patches'. I mean this post purely objectively.

Yes, I know that as people, you would like your feelings and money spent on certain things to be taken into account by the company. And you are also understandably upset that in your eyes, this did not happen.

I know I signed the petition for existing players to get a one-off Character re-make, but it's a peaceful request. If it's granted, yay. If not, well, too bad really.

In any case, you anger shouldn't really be directed at the company. For changes like these, there will have to be winners and losers. The players who paid for the content the 'losers' (again, no offense), and the new players and OOO the winners.

All it is is a change. The money, cr or dollars, is spent. The most you can do is feel sorry for yourself that maybe you didn't wait or whatever, or frustrated that this happened seemingly in spite of all your effort/money spent on doing it the hard way (I don't blame you, I know you'd be mad).

Just aim your frustration elsewhere. OOO is a company, you can't really put it past them to pull a move that would attract more players (therefore more and FRESH paying players). But if you feel that they care AT ALL about their players, then feel grateful that they do WHILE they do. They don't have to, they don't NEED to, but if they DO, then GREAT.

There are a lot of companies that could care less what their consumers thought of them, because they know that there's still a fresh and long-lasting supply of 'victims' just waiting to have their money coaxed out of them. Who knows? Maybe OOO is one of them and the GM's are just some nice guys/girls hired to give SK a nice face for the game. In any case, it shouldn't really matter.

TL;DR: What I'm trying to say really is that we're all acting like OOO is obligated to care about their players. They're not. They're a company, a profit organization, and it's not entirely beyond me why you think that they wouldn't act like one.

You anger/frustration is understandable. Don't doubt me when I say I get what you guys are raging about. But it was a gamble really, and it's your bad luck you lost, although 'lost' is the incorrect term. It's just money you could have NOT spent had you waited for this update, but doubtless you've earned it back with EXTRA since.

A lot of us have been there. The mission system, CE prices, AH things, new CE promos, a lot of things. It's a gamble a lot of us end up losing (Me a lot in fact). We just need to move on because the only people who are going to stop and care are people who are valued as much as you are and have been through the same things. The people that MATTER won't particularly care (Unless you're lucky), so live with your decisions or don't.

Your choice, but I won't hold it against you.

Vent if you will, just keep in mind what I have said.

As I said before, I mean this post entirely objectively. I fully support neither side in this argument. I am simply stating facts as I see them, hoping, perhaps in vain, to help diffuse the rage present over this new update.

That said, feel free to vent on this thread, or rage at me if you will. I mind neither.

EDIT: Oh, and no really new content. OOO doesn't really have much of an excuse for that other than 'it takes time', and to be fair, they released the Shadow lairs to keep you occupied in the past, 6 months or so? And the Mission/Prestige system to hopefully pacify your need of something to do.

But some new content WOULD be nice. We'll just have to wait I suppose. Just be glad SK isn't one of those MMOs with a fixed story that doesn't ever GO anywhere. i.e. This/these is/are your objective(s). Now do what you want and we'll give you shiny stuff to look at later just leave me alone.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:24
#1
Fluffyfoxxie's picture
Fluffyfoxxie
Excuse me for being blunt,

Excuse me for being blunt, but are you an idiot? o.o Have you never heard of a thing called player retention? Customer satisfaction? They may not be obligated to care about their player base, but it's really really bad business practice not to >.>

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:25
#2
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
Psycho I love you <3

Psycho I love you <3

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:31
#3
Lunaice's picture
Lunaice
x3

Ditto Hexzyle's statement :3

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:46
#4
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer
@Fluffyfoxxie

Excused. And I may be. Honestly, that is honestly yet to be seen/determined.

Like I said, they don't NEED to retain us players. Looking from a company's perspective, they can easily replace us now. Starting out, maybe they'd need to be nicer, but not at this stage.

I'm not saying they DON'T care, I'm just saying we need to stop assuming they HAVE to. They don't. Of course it's good PR if they do, and that's probably what nice GM's are for.

I personally doubt they disregarded paid players completely when coming up with this update, but they probably thought the update would be good for the game, and went ahead despite the possible risk of angering existing players.

EDIT: Oh, and I know I sound pro-OOO in my post, but it's hard for me to find fault with a party that isn't raging back. As in there isn't much to pick at other than the pdate I'm not really upset about.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 07:24
#5
Encross
Well let me ask you a

Well let me ask you a question.

Do you really want to play a game where the Devs don't care about player satisfaction?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 07:47
#6
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
`.`

idk about you guys, but I liked the weapon patch updates.

After losing interest while trying to catch up to all the missions a few weeks ago, the weapon patch update got me to start playing around, and eventually hooked me back into playing.

I posted elsewhere that the recent set of patches are a lot friendlier to newer players:
UV Locking, obviously.
New character experience:
- Individualizing the character upon creation (in hindsight, this was DEFINITELY in the works for a while - they were 'kind' enough to allow the older/richer knights to be able get those by releasing the height mods ahead of time).
- A new rescue camp experience
- Missions

^ all of those mean that newer players get a more streamlined experience when they start out. It's very different from how I started - show up in rescue camp, play with some randoms, hold up and suddenly, Arcade.

But the thing to get is, historically, they've made content for newer players before moving upwards to make content for current players:
Snarbolax was released when everyone was grinding Royal Jelly, and everyone was like "omg why u no make t2/t3 content?/ COOOORE". A month later, IMF was released for tier 2, and (other than complaints about lag), that was a breath of fresh air in how different it was. At some point, shadow lairs happened, but who really cares about that? Ultra-end-game players are the most likely target for that.

Recently, they've created a set of t1-t3 levels in Operation Crimson Hammer, but it's only accessible if you buy the expansion. I hear good things about it, similar to the positive reactions to IMF when it first came out.

CE promos are easy to announce because it doesn't take any coding muscle to do. What do you think they're doing on the side?
I'm sure they're working on weapon rebalances, especially since things like the charge patch are coming up, and I'm sure another set of weapons are due to have rebalances soon enough (hi, Iron Slug).

I don't foresee The Core coming out any time soon, though. It will have to be tied into the 'story' since the Missions are what drives their development style now.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 07:52
#7
Sirenblue's picture
Sirenblue
@hipster: If OOO turns out to be as described

aren't we playing one right now?

Hell, SK's one of the better MMOs already. I don't see in the life in me why I should buy the same game every year, and why I should really climb a steep and featureless mountain.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:06
#8
Shoebox's picture
Shoebox
Don't sympathise with the enemy.

You're the consumer, you're not meant to judge and defend things from their perspective.
It's your wallet, you're the one that decides where the company follows it's profit breadcrumbs.
You're the prey and you can fight back by leaving your wallet out of range of their moneyseeking predator missiles, engineered by neurosurgeons to completely rob you of all your cash and leave you feeling happy about it.
You just have to stop buying into the crap and they will stop putting it out.

Simple.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:09
#9
Sirenblue's picture
Sirenblue
o_o

Interesting way to put it, Shoebox. ._.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 09:25
#10
Marona's picture
Marona
...

I think everyone on the forum needs to chill and shutup and quit raging.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:23
#11
Fallconn's picture
Fallconn
FALCON PUNCH!

yeah i realized that a little 2 late ;-;

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:48
#12
Kitty-Softpaws's picture
Kitty-Softpaws
We asked for an auction

We asked for an auction house, Three Rings gave us welfare.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:44
#13
Toastnaut's picture
Toastnaut
Well put...

Psycho just earned a few points of respect with me.

I've defended so many past updates against random players raging in game, and guildies and friends going off about updates being scams and other silliness (and sometimes outright stupidity) like that. Sometimes it comes from rage, and sometimes from false senses of entitlement, sometimes just disappointment that the items/content/features we've been hoping or waiting for still aren't here.

Time and again, I've explained calmly to people that just because an update doesn't personally give them something new, but gives someone else in the game something new and fun, or something to do, doesn't mean it's an awful change.
I've explained at length how selling expansions for CE or other in-game currencies would be absolutely idiotic for OOO to do even if some players expected that they ought to get it for free for their past loyalty or whatever other reasons (I even wrote a short article and submitted it to an SK blog because I was tired of repeating my explanation to people.)

Now I have friends who're used to getting a "profound perspective" about an update or a fresh take that they might not have thought about asking me what I think about this one. I've been giving them a resounding "meh" and telling them briefly what I don't like, and why. Mostly I get to tell them why I understand why some people are upset, even if they're acting like children (as usual, I guess.)

Like many, I don't care for some of the changes, but I'm not going to whine and b****, because it's not my place (and it's really not that important. I have better things to spend my time on, like playing the game or going on with my life.)

We know full well that OOO listens to its customers and players, whether or not it always does what we want.
As far as the game, and bottom line go there is a massive spectrum of things that we, as players and consumers don't necessarily see or even know exist, whether they're things about coding a game, or legal obligations, or just things that run contrary to OOO's vision for THEIR game.

For some reason, people seem to have this idea that just because they've paid for the game, or invested many hours that they are entitled to impose their will on the game.

Sorry, buying CE gets you CE, not company shares.
Even when I agree with someone's rant, I can't help but shake my head. Every time someone with a sensible idea or reasonable opinion goes off on a rant or ragequits, it WEAKENS their argument, and detracts from any useful help their position may provide.
Polarizing player opinion, or trying to "call out" OOO just makes everyone involved look a bit dumber, and might even bias OOO against what would otherwise be a good idea.
I might agree with the basic idea behind the "petition" on the forums right now, but I'm not signing or supporting it because it's not our place, as players or consumers to "petition" OOO to do anything at all.

Like Shoebox said, we can express our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the game by either spending or not spending our time and money on the game.
OOO is also very nice and has provided a forum, complete with suggestion section (both of which they read) where we can socialize and discuss, and share ideas.

Pooping all over it, publicly threatening to leave, or being rude really is just taking it all for granted, and makes everyone involved look like children with absolutely no understanding of how the world works, though.

You may have a reason to be mad, but some peoples' expectations are ENTIRELY unrealistic.

(sorry for having a minirant in your thread, Psycho. XD)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:20
#14
Spectrumized's picture
Spectrumized
This

"I know, I know, happier players=more paying players, but really, most of the hate is coming from players who feel cheated out of their previous spending gone to waste.

The last thread I saw before this update was after the Mirrored Lockbox one. The guy was demanding that OOO give him mirrored lockboxes to compensate for the money he spent on the game while waiting for a new 'freebies' promo.

That's ALMOST what's going on now. Players are feeling cheated out of their money because they spent it before to get all their UV's/stuff, then OOO comes out with a system that would have made that SO much easier.

It's a gamble guys. It's like buying ce off the market only to find the ce price drops the day after, which happened to me today (really), or all the players who got the cobalt gear recipes only to find you get them free from the missions (I admit, I was a little irked at that too), except different and on a larger scale."

This.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:24
#15
Mczeno's picture
Mczeno
wat OOO

i know someone else is agreeing with me on this

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:28
#16
Diamondshreddie's picture
Diamondshreddie
yay

Psychodestroyer, thank you. i think everyone needs to read this (and understand the fact that you arent trying to argue anything)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 15:34
#17
Spectrumized's picture
Spectrumized
@Mczeno

Are you asking what OOO is? OOO is an acronym for Three Rings, the game company that makes Spiral Knights.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:39
#18
Ubernerd's picture
Ubernerd
But... but... all

But... but... all corporations are EVIL! They want to make, like, MONEY and.. and STUFF! They should have to give us back all our money because there's totally a money-back guarantee in their fine-print!

Exaggerated anti-opinion aside, this whole thing reminds me WAY too much of the time when TF2 went F2P. I was one of the people who bought it when it was still $20 and when it went F2P, yeah, I was a little miffed, but then I thought, "Hold on. I payed $20 for a game I really liked and enjoyed playing. I had FUN playing this game and when it was still $20, I never ONCE questioned if it was worth that much." You spent money (possibly Cr, but let's just assume you only spent CE you bought with money to give you your worst case) on great UV's. Before this patch, did you ONCE question if it was worth it? My guess? No, you didn't. If it was worth it to you then, why not now?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:13
#19
Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
TL;DR...

...but I skimmed a bit, and I figured this would be a decent thread to voice my opinions. The way I see it:

OOO has no obligation to keep players satisfied who have reached "endgame" status. These players have already invested their time and/or money in Spiral Knights. Instead, OOO should focus on attracting new players who want to reach that endgame status. In the process of reaching this status, these new players will sink their time/money into Spiral Knights. Simple as that.

As a video game company, OOO would do well to sell as many copies of its game as possible. For a game like Spiral Knights, "selling copies" means getting players to spend time/money achieving endgame status. If players decide to stick around after reaching endgame status, there's a chance that they will spend more time/money after future updates, but this amount is negligible compared to the amount that a new player will spend on the game.

Imagine yourself as someone who's just found out about Spiral Knights. You think to yourself, "wow, this game looks pretty cool, let's give it a whirl." In the event that you find yourself enjoying Spiral Knights, you will probably continue to put your time/money into it until you reach endgame.

Now imagine yourself as an endgame player. After any given update, your willingness to spend time/money to get your hands on new content will probably be weaker than the willingness of a new player, who sees much more new content than you do, because he/she hasn't already gone through all of the content that you have.

Long story short, OOO will likely gain more profit by attracting new players than by catering to endgame players.

If you need an example to show that maximizing profits (regardless of the "responsibility" that a business owes to its stakeholders) is a standard business practice, look at outsourced labor. Companies outsource labor, putting local employees out of their jobs. However, it seems like these companies should have some kind of "moral responsibility" to the local employees. These employees haven't done anything wrong, and once they've been laid off, they'll probably start complaining that their companies are being unfair to them. The employees have helped the companies in the past by acting as its workforce, but the companies don't care - they can get more money by taking advantage of the (relatively) new practice known as outsourcing.

The same idea can be applied to OOO and its existing playerbase. Players have contributed to Spiral Knights (for example, spending money to get crowns for UV rolling), but updates may seem to throw these contributions in the dump. Players get upset at their wasted time/money, but at the same time new players who hold no stakes in Spiral Knights see the update as something really cool (they can more easily customize their gear! Awesome!).

/endtextwall

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:19
#20
Shycoboy's picture
Shycoboy
What dark ritual?

Yes! Shycoboy agrees!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 18:36
#21
Sylveon's picture
Sylveon
Objection!

I am angry, and therefore, your completely valid arguments shouldn't be taken into consideration!

Instead, I shall spawn dozens of threads kissing my behind just begging OOO to make changes to make me stay.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 19:44
#22
Slayzz's picture
Slayzz
@Psychodestroyer Your TL;DR

@Psychodestroyer Your TL;DR seems to need a TL;DR of it's own ;)

Although they were a total douchebag about it, post #2 is correct. In order for there to be success, both sides, producers and consumers, must be satisfied. If only the producers are satisfied, then they won't be in business long as they lose more customers than gained. If only the customers are satisfied, the company could go out of business.

You did bring up some good points, however. You just didn't take all factors into consideration.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 19:53
#23
Reiyu's picture
Reiyu
SUCK IT UP.

you're all bound by the TOS. if you don't abide, leave.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:13
#24
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer
Dammit.

I finished making a long post, but my internet lagged and I lost it.

@Slayzz Yeah, but it's only the older players that are upset, over money they invested into the game and feel cheated of when the new patch would've made them pay so much LESS. As long as OOO keeps the newer players happy, SK will still be self-sustaining. More or less, disregarding variables.

@Spiral-Hipster: To be honest, I never really thought about whether the company thought about player satisfaction before I saw it brought up on the SK forums. I usually just take updates as they come, like it or hate it, then when the going get's rough, lose interest and leave.

I played Combat Arms before. That's what happened there.

Although to be fair to you guys, I didn't pay for that game either.

In any case, we shouldn't EXPECT it of OOO to care, we should be grateful if they do at all.

Although I suspect Shoebox was trying to oppose me, he does raise good points. You all have the right to express your frustration and all, just keep in mind that YOU, and YOU ALONE decided to spend that money on this game, and if it didn't turn out how you wanted it to...There isn't really much you can do about it. Vent how you want, deal with it how you want, plan for not making future mistakes if you want.

Just don't put blame where it's not due (I mean this LITERALLY. I am NOT implying innocent/guilty parties at ALL in this scenario...Ok I did imply it, but it's not INTENTIONAL. That isn't the way I'm thinking right now.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:47
#25
Kitty-Softpaws's picture
Kitty-Softpaws
@ TL;DR part: TL;DR

@ TL;DR part:

TL;DR

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:49
#26
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer
Reminds me...

The TL;DR part was just supposed to be THAT paragraph. I just suck at placement.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 22:51
#27
Kitty-Softpaws's picture
Kitty-Softpaws
http://forums.spiralknights.c

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/filter/tips

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