Spiral Knights - Buff the Volcanic Pepperbox

Buff the Volcanic Pepperbox

29 replies [Last post]

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 08:22

Trollingyou

The Volcanic Pepperbox needs love. It is a very sad individual. Volcanic Pepperbox feels as if Blitz Needle is getting all the love and attention:

at depth 24 against a zombie with max damage...

Pepperbox deals 55 with normal attack and 107 with charge (do these numbers look familiar to you?).
Blitz Needle does 78 with normal attack and 180 with charge.

Volcanic Pepperbox mourns at it's inferiority to the Blitz Needle against neutral mobs and how it's fire is fully outclassed and useless compared to Blitz Needle.

We must show love to Volcanic Pepperbox and wipe away it's tears. Why not...

Increase Volcanic Pepperbox's base damage to match the Blitz Needle

Increase chance of fire from "Slight" to "Good"

If these are not enough to give joy and happiness to Volcanic Pepperbox, then what must be done to purge it's deep sorrow?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 08:52

Tsubasa-No-Me

Also,

Allow the fire to proc multiple times, like the FoV, or a flamberg.

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 08:55

Juances

Make it half elemental?

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 09:05

Asukalan

Or maybe full elemental? Not

Or maybe full elemental?

Not only I'm not really famous but also i don't seek....for special attention... adding to all my posts pseudo signature.
~Asuk

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 09:41

Tsubasa-No-Me

Errmmm...

Then it would be nothing more then a Elemental Plague needle... and it looses its effectiveness on gremlins and wolvers...

Actually, Gremlins are already Meh with it, and wolvers dodge too much... HRRMMM... ⌐.⌐

WHY DIDNT I SEE THIS BEFOR- Oh yeah, normal damage... Gotta have at least ONE of those.... -.-

I KNOW! Lets make a Pepperbox that does freeze... >:3 No really, push a hoard back, and keep them there... /shrug

Seerusly, perhaps a nice thing would be to make each shot fire 10 bullets, which have minimal knockback, and allow you to walk and aim while firing... not the charge though...

UNRELATED: Asu, Keep that pseudo Siggy, I enjoy that thread. :3

Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 09:50

Trollingyou

---

@Tsu
Multiple fire procs would be wonderful.... except it does not proc enough right now for this to be truly effective. Increase the proc rate and we may have a winner.

@Elemental Idea
Might be best just to make an elemental line, but then no one would ever use the normal line (For reasons already stated) and we already have a lot of elemental guns. It'd be better just to do something else to it.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 11:16

Sheepsofthelegion

Yes!

Pepperbox and Auto needs shoot while walking! :P

Me gusta much.

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 16:01

Neinhart

Maybe...

A fire status buff would be much better than increasing the attack damage. Please understand that the fact that the blitz has a higher base power is to compensate for the abilities the other weapon path have:

Plauge Needle- Weak compared to blitz in base damage but when poisoned it can make up for the poor base attack. Plus, stops healing and weakens enemy damage.

Volcanic Pepperbox- Weak compared to blitz in base damage but with fire it can make up for the poor base damage over time

TLDR: increasing the chance for status problems will suffice because the their purpose can't be fulfilled when they have a low chance of actually happening

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:21

Sheepsofthelegion

I <3 pepperbox

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:38

Doctorspacebar

Pepperbox bullets continuing

Pepperbox bullets continuing through enemies would be a good idea. Would make Vortex + Pepperbox a deadly combo.

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 17:10

#10

Trollingyou

@Purepwn

That is the idea behind the lower base damage of Volcanic Pepperbox/Plague Needle. Problem is, it's too low.

Even when a mob is poison, the Blitz needle far outclasses the Plague Needle in damage, to the point where poison is not even worth it. Sure, the mob will deal less damage than you, but if you were to use the Blitz it would already be dead. There is literally no reason to use Plague Needle over Blitz Needle

Volcanic Pepperbox would have to set off a fire tick with every bullet it hits to be slightly under the blitz needle's damage on a target that is neutral to the blitz needle. So that proc rate would have to be pretty high to equal the blitz. That's why I suggested an increase in base damage as an alternative. As you can see from the numbers above, the blitz does almost twice as much damage on a neutral target as the Volcanic Pepperbox.

On a second note, I notice that the Volcanic Pepperbox's damage for normal shots seems to be much more in line with what it should be like. Maybe if the charge was scaled the same way the Blitz Needle's charge shot is then it could be just fine.

Wed, 04/10/2013 - 01:06

#11

Father-Frost

necro <.< >.>

Wed, 04/10/2013 - 07:00

#12

Arkate

IDEA!

How about the bullets leave a trail of fire, and any enemy that walks through it willy get a fire prox while touching the flame trail!

Wed, 04/10/2013 - 07:27

#13

Zeddy

Volcanic Pepperbox is balanced just fine. Nerf the Blitz instead.

Handgun damage chart for T3 GTH.

Prisma Driver damage: 191 x 2-3, 368 + 191 x 4-8 on the charge
Storm Driver damage: 159 x 2-3, 313 + 159 x 4-8 on the charge
Blitz Needle damage: 110 x 6, 229 x 15 on the charge
Plague Needle damage: 75 x 6, 170 x 15 on the charge
Callahan damage: 209, 397 on the charge

Prisma driver does 20% more damage than Storm Driver.
Blitz Needle does 35% more damage than Plague Needle.

What's wrong with this picture, guys? Am I supposed to believe that the lack of poison somehow warrants less of a damage boost than the lack of shock? Nerf Blitz Needle so that every charge shot has the same damage as a regular Callahan shot. That would bring it somewhat in line. While we're at it, Callahan's regular shots should be doing current Blitz' charged shots. Poor thing needs a buff.

Wed, 04/10/2013 - 17:03

#14

Adamosaur

The only real times I've

The only real times I've enjoyed using the Vpepperbox was versus Jelly King (max dmg vs jellies helped) as well as against vana's mask. So much damage (even easier now that we can see exactly how many hp the mask has, as well as how many charge attacks it will take).
This was of course paired with ctr maximum to make it especially effective (2 full charges vs mask within each watering).

Otherwise, it just looks cool to new players (when they see it being used) and so they make the often poor choice of going pepperbox instead of needler.

Wed, 04/10/2013 - 21:10

#15

Hexzyle

@Adamosaur

and so they make the often poor choice of going pepperbox instead of needler.

There's nothing wrong with pepperbox, it's perfectly viable. It's the Blitz Needle that should be balanced.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 08:19

#16

Luguiru

There should be a secret bonus effect if you use Pepper while someone in your party uses a Salt.
Good chance of strongly seasoning meats and vegetables
Overpowered against Lumbers and lizards.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 16:57

#17

Adamosaur

@Hex I said the "often" poor

@Hex

I said the "often" poor choice. I should have specified that it's a personal choice. Personally when I first made a Vpepperbox when I just started I felt sad that it seemed so weak in comparison to other players' blitzs.

All that you'd have to do is make Trojans undead (not weak vs piercing) and the main use of the Blitz would be negated. Of course, many players would get angry about changing such a thing, but it'd be easier than making the blitz do 40% less damage per needle, or something that clearly weakens the weapon itself.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 19:22

#18

Zeddy

If you made Trojans undead, Blitz would still one-shot them.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 00:43

#19

Adamosaur

@Zedster

With 4 players? I'll have to retest it. Maybe with my dmg max from Chaos set (lol) but without damage undead max I'd think it'd be a bit short.

Even then it'd be neutral damage, same as normal damage so the 15 needles/bullets should do the same damage to a neutral target, plus a little bonus from the fire.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 05:31

#20

Emlotargh

I absolutely agree that the

I absolutely agree that the callahan and iron slug need serious rebalancing.. double the damage, considering how vulnerable you are using it normally and more so on charge shot

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:27

#21

Hexzyle

@Emlotargh

dafuq offtopic?

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 06:28

#22

Zeddy

@Adamosaur

At depth 28, Trojans have about 1919 hit points. This equates to 3819 in a full party. A full charge of Blitz Needle does 2865 damage to a neutral target. So yes, in a full party it wouldn't quite be enough. It'd be enough for a party of two (2553 hit points), and would need a bit damage bonus above that. At medium damage bonus the Blitz Charge does about 3275 damage. This is enough for a one-charge kill in a three-man party (3186 hit points). You would need ultra damage to reach a one-charge kill for a full party (3912 damage) but that's easily achieved. Here are some ways to do it:

Full Chaos and a low UV / trinket.
Chaos + Black Kat Cowl.
Full Shadowsun if you're a little girl who can't handle fire and a low UV / trinket.
Full Chaos and after your charge you give the Trojan one gentle tap in the butt with your sword or whatever to finish them off. Weapons can be useful even if they don't instantly kill. Imagine that!

Oh, and it wouldn't be the same. Volcanic Pepperbox' damage is 1605 for a full volley. The damage difference for Blitz Needle is absolutely ridiculously massive.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 12:45

#23

Adamosaur

@Zeddy

Then I'd have to agree. Vpepperbox does show that it does less damage (on the item's stats) compared to the blitz (comparing both 5 star weapons damage wise in their stat listing). Although this is probably done because the fire damage from the VP is supposed to balance that out, it's a bit too significant.

The main strength of the blitz is it's charge attack.
I've noticed that with dmg max undead in D26 fsc I do 89 damage per needle per normal shot with my blitz. When it's charged it does about 289 per shot if I remember correctly.
This makes the weapon's charge attack very effective. Of course this is amplified with the dmg max undead (chaos + med UV) which probably scales up the charge damage more than the noncharge damage, but it is still a huge difference while other guns hardly differ in damage between charge and normal.

Does the same complaint exist between the blitz needler and the plague needler? Both of those weapons have a similar difference in damage. Personally I've never tried out the plague needler (eek LD) but I'd assume that the difference of damage would be about the same (even with the bonus damage from poisoned).

Weapons are effective if they don't instant kill, but personally I've found that much of my using the blitz (and making one) was to more effective kill vanaduke (as well as help guildmates and friends through vanaduke). By making the blitz less effective in vanaduke, it'd maybe give an opportunity for people to try new methods or weapons to kill vana, as well as his fsc depths. Maybe it's just me, but I've most often seen players use (or plan to make/use) a blitz needle for vana. I see it with fiends, sometimes Heart of Ice, but most often for vanaduke.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 13:04

#24

Skold-The-Drac

vanaduck

Make the duck immune to minor freeze, same as his cursed counterpart and make the cursed counterpart immune to shock, stun becomes the only viable status for cursed vana and people won't be able to abuse shivblitzing.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 16:31

#25

Adamosaur

I think that's accounted for

I think that's accounted for in SL vana, where he is immune to shivermist for the added challenge.

I guess I'd have to switch to stagger storms and VTs instead of shivermist for vana then :D

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 18:15

#26

Zeddy

@Adamosaur

Plague Needle has identical damage to Volcanic Pepperbox.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 19:38

#27

Earthboundimmortal

Bigger and smaller

Make the climp 1.5 times bigger and make the time you shoot 25% smaller, that way, you get more shots and less reload.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 20:32

#28

Hexzyle

BTW Stagger Storm is better for Vanaduke than Voltaic Tempest. Sure VT stops his dashes, but only sometimes. It slows his turning, but that's about it.
Stagger Storm makes him ridiculously more predictable and adds another second after all his abilities where he has to sit there immobile and recover.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 21:12

#29

Adamosaur

I was talking about layering

I was talking about layering VTs and Stagger storm bombs (mad bomber makes it easy...well so does chaos set as of recently). With vana being turning slowly and recovering slowly from being stunned, and unable to dash from being shocked, double combo.

Same means is the main way bombers are effective in LD (esp t3). I've only met a few players who can run through a shivermist inside a stagger storm inside a voltaic tempest.

But, back on topic, yes, buff Vpepperbox! or rebalance it, rather.

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Buff the Volcanic Pepperbox