I'm trying to upgrade to T3, and want to know about the use of the CIV. There are a lot of undead at the FSC, but no-one (Bopp's guide, regular sword guide, wiki page) mentions its use at the FSC. The DA seems better due to its Elemental damage, which undead are weak to; but the CIV does have high damage against undead. Vana's mask resists everything but normal, and so pure normal (CIV) seems better there than normal/elemental (DA).
Cold Iron Vanquisher on FSC?
Tue, 05/01/2012 - 22:59
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 00:15
#2
Thanks, Bopp, even though I'm not the one who asked.
Looking at the damage tables on the wiki, I figure the difference in damage is not a big deal except against bosses, since most things don't take more than 6 hits to kill so it's not often gonna add up to less hits required. I am still under the impression that the choice between them should be based on the knockback preference and/or aesthetics.
Speaking of aesthetics, the first time I saw a Cold Iron sword was in the still image on the wiki where, to me at least, it looks ghastly. After seeing in-game that the chains animate in a delightfully psychedelic way, I strongly prefer its looks over the Leviathan. I would like to see that animated sprite trick used for a giant tree-felling axe with a flaming chainsaw edge, whose description says something about Lumbers, but that's wandering a bit off-topic...
Sun, 05/06/2012 - 16:56
#3
Get a Brandish with an Undead UV
When I was making my FSC loadout, I didn't want to sacrifice defense for more attack power, so I bought a Brandish with an Undead UV on it. I went with Undead Very High and upgraded it to a Voltedge. With a damage trinket, I can kill zombies in 3 hits when solo or 4-6 hits (depends on depth) with a full party. Plus, it has the awesome Brandish charge attack.
You could probably pick up a Brandish with an Undead Medium UV for fairly cheap on the Auction House. This would give you a bonus that is comparable to the CIV, but on a sword that deals Elemental damage.
I've tried the CIV in FSC, and in my opinion it's not very good. Vana's mask phases are easy, so it's not necessary to bring a weapon specifically for that (unless you're trying to break the world record or something).
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 02:21
#4
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Cold Iron Vanquisher's main niche is for taking out Slag guards when you've wearing armor with fire vulnerability and don't want to risk Fang of Vog lighting you up. I also use mine when bombing to kill oilers and clear the rocket room without worrying about a stray shard waking the rocket puppy, but I only bring it in the first place if someone else in the party has a Shivermist but no Blitz.
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 06:10
#5
clarify
The other comments here are quite good. After re-reading my rambling post above, I think I can improve its clarity:
The wiki damage numbers for CIV are incomplete, but against undead it seems to do about 60-70 more points of damage per combo than Levi does. So I estimate that its DPS against single undead is comparable to DA's or WRH's, and dramatically lower than Glacius/Voltedge/Combuster's. Of course, DA and WRH have big swings that work against multiple enemies, while G/V/C do not. Sadly, CIV is like G/V/C in this regard. So its regular attacks are just not very good, even against undead.
The damage bonus issue is an independent consideration, as long as the bonus coming from other sources is Low, Medium, or High. Once it reaches Very High, the inherent undead bonus on CIV starts going to waste, further weakening this sword relative to the elemental swords.
The point of Levi/CIV/FoV is the charge attack, which is obviously quite good. Orbwanter confirms that it can be used well against slag guards, which are (in my opinion) the hardest part of the Vanaduke fight. So a sophisticated player could bring CIV along just for its charge attack. But I wouldn't want it as my main sword in FSC. Cheers.
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 06:44
#6
Going through enemies at FSC
FSC has undead,construct, fiend, and slime for which the 'advantageous' swords are elemental, elemental, pierce (which slime and construct resist), and shadow (which undead and fiend resist). But what are the relative proportions of each? Are there, for example, mostly undead enemies, few constructs, and one or two fiends and slimes? The fact is, I have only two slots so what type of sword would be most useful here if not CIV? Sorry, but I've not yet hit T3 and I don't want to blunder through it.
@Orbwanter Seriously? It's easy? the wiki makes every thing seem like an epic duel in its own right!
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 06:52
#7
I'd steer clear of the CIV
Unless you are just loaded with 5* gear and want it for novelty.
Also, i'd like to point out that even though the CIV may be a better choice for vanaduke mask phase, this really won't matter at all unless you are soloing vanaduke. IF you are running in parties, you are better off using an Elemental Brandish or DA and being more effective throughout the entirety of FSC.
I mean, if you look at it objectively the CIV is an underpowered sword with a built in Undead high...and you'll notice no one is frequenting the forums/bazaar looking for undead high uv'd swords lol.
Being as though you said you are trying to move up to tier 3, the CIV becomes a very poor choice IMO. Actually, i've played with many people who prefer BTB or FF over the CIV vs undead. Those swords also work vs fiends (trojans and silk wings), beasts, grievers, and devilites. This makes it a much better choice for someone moving into t3. The final flourish charge attack can make short work of trojans and slags from what i've been told. Additionally the Blitz needle charge destroys slags/trojans. And if you are doing vana you will likely have to either be blitzing or shiver misting (which is less popular now days, blitzing is preferred).
Just my 2 cents, hope it helps.
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 07:59
#8
I agree with other posters :
I agree with other posters : CIV is a niche weapon, really, and you shouldn't do it and do a DA instead (or an elemental brandish).
As for the mobs repartitions in FSC (numbers are from my memory and could be wrong, but they are close enough):
- hundreds and hundreds of zombies. I don't think anyone bothered to count, because they are the main enemy by a LARGE amount
- several trojans for each floor : 2 for the first, 6 for the second, 1 for the third, 6 for the fourth. So about 15. But they are hard, that's part of the reason why Blitz Needle is a popular choice (the charge one shot them with enough DMG bonus or a small party). They can be dealt with a DA, but it's longer.
- some oilers. 4 in the first floor, 3 in the second one and I don't think there is any in the 2 other floors. In any case, about or less than 10. They are not that hard and can be dealt with with a DA.
- some explosives cubes (less than 10). Easy to take care with a DA.
- at most 5 wolvers in the third floor in a single room, and that's it for wolvers.
- some construct turrets : mainly flamethrowers, but there is a respawning rocket puppy you can't kill with swords in floor 2. Note that you don't have to do the room where it is.
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 08:05
#9
enemies in FSC
Daedalusofathens, the monsters in FSC are like this:
* zombies (tons)
* gun puppies (about 16)
* trojans (about 15)
* slimes (14-18)
* silkwings (12?)
* wolvers (3)
* slag guards (0, 2, 4, 8, etc., depending on how long you fight Vanaduke)
* Vanaduke (about 1)
So elemental-vulnerable monsters are numerous. An elemental weapon is okay against the trojans, silkwings, and slimes too. It's bad against the wolvers, but there are very few of those. It's not worth the weapon slot, to carry a shadow weapon. It is worth the weapon slot, to carry a piercing weapon, for the trojans and silkwings. Your piercing weapon is great against Vanaduke's body phases if it has a big ranged charge attack --- hence Blitz/Plague Needle.
My secondary character does FSC all the time with two weapon slots. He carries an elemental sword and Shivermist Buster. (Most parties run their Vanaduke tactics through Shivermist and Blitz, so carrying one or the other makes you more desirable as a teammate.)
Pawn, I can confirm that FF/BTB makes short work of trojans. When playing solo, I prefer it over Blitz for trojans. When playing in a party, I prefer Blitz. I don't have much experience in using FF/BTB on slags, though.
Edit: Fradow beat me, and I agree with him.
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 09:39
#10
'About' 1 Vanaduke?
So I need an Elemental sword (DA) and a Blitz needle? K, thanks.
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 16:43
#12
Yep Daedusofathens
You want elem sword and shiver or Blitz. I highly suggest blitz needle. You'll find many, many parties that say noooo shiver, don't shiver, shiver is no fun. You'd be hard pressed to find a group who says no blitz. Some groups like to do sweet vana sword only run, but you'll likely not be joining any of those anytime soon....and if you do at least u got ur elem sword so you can play along.
Shiver is more preferred in parties that are new to vana, it slows down the fight and makes it more manageable. But in the long run blitz is just as easy after a little practice. It is more fun and rewarding by most accounts. And it is quicker. Basically it's either 1 person shivers and 3 charge attack blitz Vana, or 4 people charge blitz vana. This is sorta the standard, but certainly not the only options. Obviously 4 people blitzing vana has the potential to be quicker. In the long run many consider 4 blitzing (meaning more active play, dodging, throwing water, timing your shots) to be more fun and less monotonous than vana standing still frozen while u just shoot away.
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 17:05
#13
Pawn, do you run FSC with
Pawn, do you run FSC with fellow guild-members most of the time? I run FSC with public groups (no guild), and I don't think I've been in a full party that didn't want Shiver for Vanaduke. If I'm in a duo, yeah, sometimes they don't want Shiver, but the full parties have unanimously wanted Shiver.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 11:36
#14
Why bother with CIV when you
Why bother with CIV when you could just use DA and do so much better?
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 13:09
#15
Cold Iron Vanquisher's only
Cold Iron Vanquisher's only niche is if you are primarily a gunner or bomber in a party. In that case, it offers a handy utility weapon with a non-disruptive charge attack.
Leviathan Blade's charge knockback flings enemies to the far reaches of your friends' faces, but away from you. In that respect, Leviathan Blade is a great soloist weapon.
CIV, on the other hand, does slightly more against undead and less to everything else, but the charge knocks back less and hits more. Great for parties.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:14
#16
@Batabii
Because some people like to do it differently. There is no logic behind it, and the reason I have one is simply for aesthetic and fun purposes.
If you like swords, you might like my sword gui --- oh, wait, never mind that part.
One issue is that advanced sworders tend to have sword damage bonus coming from either Skolver/Snarbolax or BTS or trinkets. When I walk into FSC, I have damage bonus at least Very High, and often Maximum! This kind of bonus on an elemental sword will out-damage a CIV against zombies, especially since the CIV bonus starts going to waste once you have damage bonus Very High or greater from other sources (because Very High + High goes over Maximum!).
The CIV's normal damage is nice against Vanaduke's mask, but it loses its undead bonus, because Vanaduke is not technically undead. So it's weaker than Leviathan would be, I think. The CIV's charge attack may be nice against slag guards, especially since it has low knockback. I've never tried that.
In the end, there may be a niche for CIV --- maybe players who don't have big damage bonus from other sources, because their armor and trinkets are devoted to guns and bombs. But sworders have elemental swords with big damage bonus, so CIV doesn't look great. And CIV is definitely a weak sword against everything but undead, elsewhere in the Clockworks. And once you've done FSC 14 times, you get Fang of Vog, which has an even better charge attack for slag guards, trojans, etc.
Obviously I don't have a slam-dunk answer, but maybe this much helps?