Spiral Knights - Candid Bomb Discussion

Candid Bomb Discussion

13 replies [Last post]

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:14

Praktyss

Legacy Username

Hey there~

I recently got into bombing, and have some serious questions about... well.... pretty much everything.
I appreciate any and all intelligent feedback, subjective or not. ^-^*

Toxic Bombs-- I've read that once they hit MKIV and higher, they begin to carry their weight quite a bit. But Using the 2* version now seems a little underwhelming, and is usually relegated to when I can't freeze or crystal-blast something. I really like debuffing with it, though. Thoughts? Is it worth taking up to Mk4?

Crystal Bombs-- so far my favorite bomb, as any slow mob gets hammered by 4+ shards for solid damage. I've heard many people complaining about the Ionized doing trash damage, but the shock effect seems like it might be silly amounts of strong. Is it worth passing on this for the specialization of Sun Shards (because, I got to tell you, I REALLY hate Imps. Like.... more than anything. But somehow I doubt Sun Shards will be the prolific leveler I want them to be)

Blast Bombs-- they seem like your solid, go-to bomb for both damage and pushback. Probably should always have some variant of Blast Bomb on your person at all times, yeah? What would you all recommend as the upgrade path? I'm digging on the Master Blast into NItronome-- what advantages does the Irontech even have over this?

Graviton-- I have a hard-on for this bomb, and I've never even used it or seen it used. It sounds ridiculously efficient at doing what a bomber needs-- grouping mobs together. Am I just overrating this thing?

In general, I'm fascinated by the finesse and timing required by this "class". Also being one of the best CC-debuffers in the game, the flexibility just seems awesome.
I'm currently running with Freeze Vapor MkII, Crystal Bomb and either Blast or Toxic in the 3rd slot.
Suggestions?

And for armor, is there really anything other than the Mad Bomber Suit worth getting?

Lastly-- I see a lot of discussion about UV Bombs. I already have a UV charge time: low for my Freeze Vapor. Is it really worth the time and money at 2*/3* gear level to start pouring time and money into Haze Bombs and Blast Bombs to try for one?

Anyway. I appreciate anyone who has read this pile of TL:DR. ^-^ This community is one of the best on-line I've ever seen, and is a refreshing change from say, Heroes of Newerth. (Jesus)

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:26

Feynt

Legacy Username

Pretty much all of the

Pretty much all of the vaporizers are lame. It's not until you get to the atomizers that their radius reaches useful sizes. Poison is insanely useful for your team though if you can manage to hit a large number of targets, especially in the later strata.

I haven't tried blast bombs myself, uncontrolled knock back is typically a bad thing in my opinion. But it's probably the best bomb for working against everything in general since it does Normal typed damage. Irontech bombs apparently have slower timers, but I don't know exactly.

Graviton is great. Drawing enemies into a single point helps keep dodgers from dodging, and also synergizes with various vaporizers (except freezing, since the graviton's eventual boom will break the freeze). It helps sword users immensely too, keeping everything in one place.

Crystal bombs I've been rather sore about. I have an ionized salt bomb, but I keep thinking "if only this shot out more shots, covering 24 directions (the 8 it does, plus the in betweens) it would be much more useful." Also, despite having a bonus against slimes, the damage is extremely underwhelming. Even if you can get a slime to get hit three or four times because it jumped on the bomb.

Given the speed of the bombs, pouring money into high or better charge time reduction on the cheap bombs is well worth the effort.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:47

OnmyojiOmn

Legacy Username

Crystal Bombs and Sun Shards

Crystal Bombs and Sun Shards are incredibly useful. Just completely ignore the rock salt branch.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:52

ajericho

Legacy Username

The Fiery and Freezing

The Fiery and Freezing Vaporizers aren't lame at MkII. Being able to set things on fire is extremely useful almost everywhere you go, except for fire levels. If you can chain bomb, the smaller radius of a MkII isn't as problematic (now, the much smaller radius of a MkI is indeed problematic). I've mostly used fire and freeze, haven't played with toxic as much because even at MkII it underwhelms me. However, I think I may simply need to try it out on a level where monster healing starts to become a problem for my party.

Blast bombs are chaotic. The knockback is awesome, but as the knockback occurs in all direction, I find it best when I'm using it as I'm running away. As long as the monsters are on the other side of the bomb from us, they don't get knocked into us. I agree with Feynt about the Graviton Bomb, and will add that it's most useful with slimes, i.e., the Royal Jelly Palace.

Crystal Bomb upgrades have been disappointing to a friend of mine, too. You really don't want to upgrade this bomb; it's fine as it is. Sometimes equipment is like that.

Reducing charge time is always, always, always useful. The Vaporizers begin with the rather cheap Haze Bombs, and thus one can systematically make Haze Bombs until getting a charge time reduction unique variant, and then upgrade those with the UV. Other bombs have an alchemical path that starts out at higher stars and thus are more expensive to do this with.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:31

Feynt

Legacy Username

I agree that vaporizers are

I agree that vaporizers are useful at all levels for their effect, but their usefulness isn't realized until you start getting up there in the star values because their AoE drops significantly the moment you go from haze bomb to vaporizer. I had the hardest time with my fiery vaporizer until I upgraded it to the atomizer. Even the mk II was falling a bit short on the AoE.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:48

ajericho

Legacy Username

Oh, I hadn't realized that

Oh, I hadn't realized that the AoE goes down from the Haze Bomb. I never used Haze, actually, just Firecracker, and so the vaporizers were my first exposure to the Haze line. Interesting, that.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:08

Softspoken

Legacy Username

On Rock Salt Bombs

Currently I'm using a Rock Salt Bomb, and here's my deal on it: the bomb does passable damage to slimes. Not quite as much as against gremlins, which are neutral to piercing damage, but still okay damage. Its only real weakness is constructs, So you can't use its massive range to snipe gun puppies or mecha knights. I haven't used the sun shards line, but what they offer is immense damage to fiends, good damage on undead, with presumable moderate to low damage on the other four types. The way I see it, sun shards will be moderately useless against gremlins and slimes, worse than with rock salt bombs.

What I'm trying to get at here is that I believe sun shards specialize much more than rock salt bombs. So if you're willing to carry the extra weapons to fill in the blanks, (Graviton bomb or any other source of shadow damage) which it looks like you are, sun shards are the way to go. If you only want to carry two weapons, you might consider rock salt, since it's only particularily ineffective against constructs. I'm working under the assumption it's much easier to 'just have' elemental damage on your second weapon than shadow damage.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 21:35

Praktyss

Legacy Username

So. Some updated

So. Some updated inquiries/observations, here:

Graviton Bomb: This thing either seems extremely noob-friendly (read: awful), or much more finesse than I first thought. I hate the charge time. I hate the movement impairment. I hate the way it tosses enemies after it's done. The only good thing about this is you can squeeze your way out of a corner or trap if you get out of position. In fact, Freezing Vaporizer seems superior in pretty much every way, if you're skilled enough. Am I missing something? SInce I only duo with one other person, maybe locking them in the vortex isn't being capitalized on enough? (I typically run with a gunner)

Crystal Bombs: After my experience with the (much) slower charge time and movement with Graviton, I'm very, very reluctant to use the Ionized Salt Bomb. Is the proc rate noticeable? I'm not worried about damage-- if you can get slow mobs to hob onto the bomb, it does just fine. But the slows are really a dealbreaker, as I tend to spend more time CC"ing and darting in and out with bomb placement rather than blowing things up. Do Sun Shards suffer a similar drawback?

Frankly, I'm not super-interested in back-loading massive piles of damage. I prefer the CC of the poison and frost bombs, and even the Graviton. If I want to hurt things, I just spam Crystal Bombs, currently.

I'm leaning toward strongly agreeing with people re: the pseudo "Unpredictability" of Blast Bombs' push effect-- it's only sometimes good. And does about the same amount of damage of a well-placed Crystal Bomb, ImO. I couldn't imagine using an Irontech.

Lastly-- I've managed to get a hold of a couple charge-time redcution:med Haze Bombs, and obviously plan on using them for Poison and Frost. That said, is it similarly worth the time and effort to try and squeeze out a UV for a Crystal Bomb? Do they even COME in charge time reduction? I already have a pair of "Damage: high versus Gremlins" and "Undead" respectively.
That said, I'm assuming trying for a charge-time reduction for a Blast Bomb would be a good investment as well?

(Slightly unrelated)
I'm really sick of 2 things-- A.) Not being able to shield in the midst of bombs without a massive pushback to mobs. Can't Bombers get a Shield specifically for them called "Fallout Shelter" or something that doesn't push mobs away? I would love to be able to plant a Bomb and throw up my shield and just wait, and B.) The animation-cancelling graphic; why, in the name of all that is holy, does my character have to hiccup the bomb raising-lowering animation when I am unable to fully charge a bomb? I know you bombers know what I'm talking about-- it's just horrible game design. Why punish a class that already has a huge risk vs. reward system without punishing us by what basically seems like a lazy mechanic. Is this working as intended?

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 22:07

Alexandriea

Shivermist, Ash of Agni and a

Shivermist, Ash of Agni and a Leviathan Blade allows Eeks to solo to the core. You don't need anything else.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 23:59

ajericho

Legacy Username

Graviton bomb really, really

Graviton bomb really, really requires you to don a high enough level of demo suit to make the charge reduction matter. There's basically one situation I use this bomb in: Jelly Palace with a party. Dealing with the constant spam of little jellies is made easy with this bomb. Also, you want at least one swordsperson in the party if you're going to deal damage to them while they're gathered up—you need the damage fast, spread, and heavy, and a sword is what will deliver it to the enemy cluster, not a gun.

It is also the only bomb line that deals shadow damage.

For Crystal Bomb, I don't know all the UVs that can occur. I'd imagine that reduced charge time is possible just because it's a bomb, but it is an unusual bomb in that it charges quickly even without a demo suit on.

As for A and B, I'm fine with them. If we could shield without pushing and not hiccup when interrupted, we wouldn't actually have a higher risk than swordsfolk; we'd deal massive status effects and damage and then run away safely. Better, I think, this kind of "nerf" than the nerf that was handed out to gunners in general.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 03:00

#10

Lusty

It is possible to control the

It is possible to control the direction in which mobs are blown away by a blast bomb, sure it takes a little bit of strategy but its the way you drag the mob into you at a certain time that will enable the chance to plant at a certain place to get a certain direction... certainly something to practice :P.

Something that helps me do this is first to ask my party to let me in to an area first to aggro the mob, i try to place the bomb in the middle of the group im triggering, if thats not possible then ill put it as close as possible to the center front, altho depending on the speed of that particular mob i might do it a little far away back than usual (if its a fast mob), when the first bomb explodes i already have another bomb charged and ready to go (im talking about a Master Blast Bomb lvl 9 with heavy demo set higher than lvl5) which i try to place inside the "mob circle" altho not in the dead middle but rather in the "lower center" (by lower i mean the closest area to me and my group, highest being the further area heading towards "north" of our position regarding the mob), by then i hit and run getting in to plant and out to charge then going back in, i already have a rythm set, they are focused on me, this is what should happen ideally, but lets say you screw up, your party breaks your rythm or the mobs are just plain too hard, you can still play sides (this is mostly in arenas or danger rooms), just notice the direction the mob is dancing (this usually by your party setting up the direction/rythm instead of you) and play ahead, at first it may be to get mobs away from teammates then you can start with setting your own rythm over the mob.

Being a full bomber its all about you setting the rythm and flow of the fight, be it by mob managing using a blast bomb, by inflicting status using fire/poison/ice,etc or by setting the speed of the fight by either freezing/gravvying mobs, its important that your party understands that. You need to know not only WHERE will the next wave spawns but also be ready BEFORE it spawns, pay attention to when your party is about to kill the last enemy of a wave and be ready in place with a charged bomb planted 1 second before the next wave.

I lack practice in dodging (not only using shield, no use in being a bomber if you always have your shield up, us bombers shouldt give a crap about shields :P) AND i dont care if i take damage as long as i get that blast whenever i want it to or as long as i get that status on the entire mob thats why i die a little bit more than my party.

Also: USE VoIP!!! be it TS3, Ventrilo, Mumble, etc.. its always best to communicate with your party/guild live rather than in text, SPECIALLY in the middle of battle, also its so much fun.
If you want to do runs with me ill be glad to if im not doing one already with my guild, my IGN its Lusty.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:00

#11

Praktyss

Legacy Username

N01r- Good tips for a new

N01r-
Good tips for a new bomber. Just from a the several weeks of playing, pretty much everything you described is spot-on. Having aggro first definitely lets you "leash" the mobs into your blasts. Nonetheless, I still think Blast Bombs are an "imperfect" medium-- even with super-strong knowledge of mob attack animation, movement speed, etc, it can still waddle to the side of a blast, get hit by a teammate, charge an attack suddenly, and so on.

Anyway.

aJericho-
Have you even SEEN a charge time reduction on a Crystal bomb? I've never heard of it, and am actually wondering if it's even necessary, and if I wouldn't be better off with a dmg+ variant, because, as you said, it charges so quickly.
After playing around with the Graviton a little more, I've decided it's not as bad as I first thought, but also not as clutch as I would like. At least, not yet without a Mad Bomber set-up.

I would still like some solid, hands-on feedback about Sun Shards vs. Ionized Rock Salt (not just conjecture and subjective nay-saying), please.

Sun Shards seem like the "specialist" bomb, and a decent all-around upgrade for the Crystal. Nothing special, just some elemental damage. I can dig it, as I'm pretty spammy with my Crystal Bombs.

Rock Salt ... ehhh. I really wanted to like it in theory-- getting Slimes to bounce onto the bomb is already fun, so some extra damage against them would be pretty beastly. But Ionized... with the reduced charge time (and.... movement slow, also?), I have a hard time reconciling its use with my playstyle. Does anyone know what the shock proc-rate is? Or do I just have to buckle down and make them both and see how they work out?

Also also-- am I the only one who runs without a sword? I rarely feel like I'm in a position that I *need* one, but there have been a handful of times I *wish* I had one (mostly against Demonites and some Constructs). Otherwise, I just spam shards.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:05

#12

Herford

Legacy Username

When I first got the ionized

When I first got the ionized rock salt bomb I was disappointed because it seemed like I was doing less damage and it slowed me. But then I noticed that shock happens all the time. And I actually kill them quicker when I can keep shock on them permanently. So I dunno I think it's a good upgrade.

TL:DR - Ionized rock salt bomb puts out shock often.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:05

#13

ajericho

Legacy Username

Have you even SEEN a charge

Have you even SEEN a charge time reduction on a Crystal bomb? I've never heard of it, and am actually wondering if it's even necessary, and if I wouldn't be better off with a dmg+ variant, because, as you said, it charges so quickly.

I've not seen one, but then again, I don't churn out Crystal Bombs for UVs, so me not seeing one doesn't mean much.

You're also not the only one who goes about without a sword; just read the Elite Bomber thread. Personally I usually walk around with Khorovod, which I think of as a 180º bomb with a guard and no charge time.

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