Spiral Knights - This is totally silly.

This is totally silly.

30 replies [Last post]

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 18:41

Thimol

And by "silly", I mean "abhorrent".

This doesn't make sense. It's not fair. It's wrong

The last thing this game needs is a tone down in difficulty. Already, zombies, Wolvers, and Retrodes were largely ineffectual after that patch some months back, and Gremlin menders were reduced to the efficacy of Silkwings over time. But after that last patch, Retrodes aren't even so much as an obstacle now. They may as well be the very blocks that you can just clear in a single hit.

As it stands, SK is in a very precarious position, with a tenuous player retention (especially for the people later in the game), a slow-down in provision of content, and uneventful CE promotions. Still, I stuck with SK because it was a game. Even though it could frustrate me at times, it was something that gave me amusement because with enough effort, I could overcome the challenges presented to me. With the direction this game is going, however, it may no longer be a game. It could just be an internet hugbox, with each effortlessly completed level effectively telling us "good job, sport, you're a real pro" when all we did was mash the buttons on the computer. I wish getting a job were as easy as SK now, then OOO would have single-handedly solved the global economic crisis, but I don't want SK to be easy. I don't want games to be easy, then otherwise they're not games. Games need a challenge.

Please, make SK a game again.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 18:57

Lukehandkooler

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:10

Shue-Donnym

No subject line spam here, move along

Now with next to any weapon you can faceroll your keyboard and collect the loot after a few seconds. Effortless.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:15

Dukeplatypus

+1 I want to have to focus

+1
I want to have to focus while I ruthlessly savage mobs.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:44

Lunatiqe

LOLed at Pladypus' comment XD

yep, getting less excitement when facing mobs recently. :/
I wasn't able to put my game face on except when i fought Arkus for the first time yesterday. And it was good :D

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:12

Schattentag

merp

If I could give a +1 for all the times I end up doing FSC literally in my sleep, I'd be giving quite a few +1's.

If I couldn't, I'd at least give one +1 to this.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:31

Spamisalreadyinuse

needs more knights

needs more knights customization, lock boxes, rescue camp missions, and new 0* and 1* items.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:38

Thimol

-----

needs more knights customization, lock boxes, rescue camp missions, and new 0* and 1* items.

Take your drama fuel elsewhere.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:57

Kitty-Softpaws

I thought the same thing for

I thought the same thing for scuttlebots but guess what, OMG THE ROCKET PUPPY DANGER ROOM. I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW HIGH OF A THREAT THAT MOB OF SCUTTLEBOTS WERE! HOLY JESUS.

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 04:05

Chibi-Girl

Fail whale has been added to SK.

OOO, you are worthy of this fail whale badge! Here you go.

██████████████▄▐█▄▄▄▄█▌
██████▌▄▌▄▐▐▌███▌▀▀██▀▀
████▄█▌▄▌▄▐▐▌▀███▄▄█▌
▄▄▄▄▄██████████████

Edit: Here's proof it's easy, you can solo SNARBOLAX with proto gear. You actually HAD to have better armor back then, but you can just go solo snarbolax with your proto gear. I have no photos to prove this, as I have not taken any pictures of SK and have no idea how to screenshot.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:52

#10

Autofire

Wow, nice approach to the

Wow, nice approach to the subject. I actually agree with most of the OP. A game is a game when it is difficult. Otherwise, it's an interactive story book.

Before, I was very, very frightened upon entering a graveyard. My heart rate would have shot up at the end of it. Now, its just a treasure vault with millions of zombies. Wolvers used to be something to watch for, with there unique turn as attacking ability. You had to be FAR from them, or they would bit you. Now, you can sidestep and laugh as he bites the dust (literally) that you just kicked up, and then he gets a tooth pick to the back.

The only thing that hasn't been touched, are the develites. But I fear that the reticule of the nerf gun is on them, and the gun is being loaded. Once that happens, I think this game won't have any difficulty left within it. (Aside from SLs, but I currently can't access those.)

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 22:01

#11

Coatl

+1People have made so many

+1
People have made so many threads about this. I would really appreciate it if the GMs acknowledged them.
The whole "if its so easy go wear proto gear" arguement just gets so damn old.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 22:06

#12

Kitty-Softpaws

The players don't know what

The players don't know what they want, they just like to complain & act high & mighty. This is why I prefer mature players above ages 21. Hey look the party died but the guy who's soloing everything & making witty remarks because he hasn't yet just loves to rub it in our faces of saying "this is too easy". You know what's really funny tho? When they DIE & make an excuse like lag killed them.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 22:14

#13

Kitty-Softpaws

Poor customer support GMs are

Poor customer support GMs are being trolled upon now. I'm not mentioning names but I know what these two expert veterans did recently. I was in a run with them. It was suppose to be filed as a bug report but guess what, THEY TROLLED AND ABUSED THE BUG REPORT. Then later called a GM from customer support to just see the bug because customer support wasn't really needed there. They weren't stuck, no need to call them. I AM ASHAMED & DISAPPOINT.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 22:24

#14

Shue-Donnym

No subject line spam here, move along

Hey guys let's make another post immediately after our last one whenever we think of something witty to add to our argument instead of editing our other post!!!

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 22:25

#15

Shue-Donnym

No subject line spam here, move along

Seriously, you should do this.

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 22:32

#16

The-Thor

I guess I agree with the OP,

I guess I agree with the OP, but you know whats more ridiculous? that 100ce costs 7.1k in market right now.
This is game is dying out... come on, OOO, do your thing. Rose regalia, amazing. explorer packedge ($3) amazing, Dragon/Valkyrie wings, amazing...
this game came a long way. dont let this game die

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 23:20

#17

Metagenic

my honest opinion

I don't think this game should get any easier, but do the Shadow Lairs on a 1-bar connection and then tell me you can "mash the keyboard" effortlessly.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 01:18

#18

Asukalan

+1 No to stupid nerfs. By the

+1 No to stupid nerfs.

By the way, you know why they nerfed retrodes? They did it not because players were annoyed, not because there were complains.

They did it JUST BECAUSE they had to put T1 (or even T0) retrodes into pre haven missions.

This is the only reason. They nerfed a whole type of enemy just because they though they will be too hard for a newb with a company of NPC.
For that one silly reason they nerfed ALL retrodes, instead of changing only the T1. Its pathetic, form all the possible solutions (problem = OOO though that retrodes might be too hard for a newbs in pre haven missions (where is almost impossible to die) ), from possibility to nerf just T1 retrodes, or changing mission layout they had to NERF ALL RETRODES.

Once again, OOO, this is pathetic.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 02:44

#19

Fashama

-1 Why? A game should give

-1

Why? A game should give you fun doing the stages, and fun because you defeated ultra hard enemies while using some energy for reviving isn't an option. I'm proud that the developers have a heart for players, they are doing a great job.

By the way, I don't understand your problem. How about creating your own challenge? Wear proto stuff (yes, old but effective), go into the fire for some seconds until you only have a few bars and much more... In Minecraft players have a huge imagination to create stuff, I would say it's pathetic if players here aren't able to create their own challenge. An old example, in the past I always played Mario Kart 64, but these computerplayers there were often easy, sometimes too easy. What was my decision? I waited some time at the start line, and then I gave my best. People should do the best in situations, but some prefer to cry.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 04:39

#20

Shidara

I liked the game better when it was harder. I can agree to a few nerfs, if they weren't as harsh as they were, and even then I didn't have too much trouble before the monsters got nerfed either.
Even devilites are turning into yawn-material these days. (Yeah, I said it.)

@Fashama
A good game doesn't constitute an easy game, nor does a hard one, but Spiral Knights wasn't a hard game in the first place. Sure, everybody will have troubles on their first run-through, but that's why it was fun, and why you would feel so accomplished when you overcome it. When you know all that is required of you to live is to simply tap D to step to the side, avoiding all damage, there isn't much of a challenge to overcome. You also cannot compare this game to Minecraft, where you can install all sorts of mods whenever you darn well please. That is why the game is still fun to some people, because they can keep on modding their game, customizing it to their liking of a first-person building adventure. If your solution to lack of challenging content is to create artificial challenges then more power to ya, but know this, not everyone have your mentality of doing things, where they could jump into their proto gear and take it to the Duke when they feel like it. Sure, it's challenging, but it's also a waste of time to the player who just wants to play the game. It simply doesn't work for everybody.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 05:06

#21

Alice-In-Pyroland

+1 to the game needing challenge, -1 to all the nerfs being bad

Quoting what I said back in the January nerf thread;

Anyhow the patch really isn't that bad. They removed the legitimately cheap things that were nothing but the source of artificial difficulty like the 'auto-target' on zombies and Retrodes and alphas teleporting mid-attack and unfortunately kept going and further nerfed things past what was required, such as making zombies and Retrodes mini-lumbers and removing the alphas ability to track players when attacking. Even so it's not exactly something that cannot be fixed easily enough, make another update giving zombies and Retrodes their speed back with increase damage, and give wolvers their tracking ability back.

Honestly this reminds me of people complaining about the obnoxious hitboxes in the older Monster Hunter games being fixed, which were almost entirely the source of the game's artificial "challenge" that so many adored it for. People complained non-stop about the games being easier, defending bad design choices and completely disregarding that despite the fake difficulty being removed the games were in many regards getting harder but other factors were preventing this from being apparent (monsters doing less damage, monster stamina, ect). Fast forward to Tri G on the 3DS; it has the tightest hitboxes in the series, and it's also arguably the hardest, and unlike its predecessors it's legitimately challenging and consequently rewarding for it, not hard because Plesioth can hipcheck you from the other side of the map.

tl;dr moral of the story: Artificial difficulty =/= Legitimate challenge and removing the former makes room to actually build on the latter. That doesn't mean Three Rings will mind you, but one can hold out hope.

The problem isn't the nerfs; the 'fake difficulty' SK was riddled with before was neither satisfying to chore through nor was it actually a challenge. The issue is that instead of replacing the arbitrary mechanics that gave the game the illusion of being difficult to unskilled players with actual legitimately hard tension-building situations they've just left the void unfilled.

The game no doubt needs to be more challenging, but it needs to be challenging for the right reasons. The anti-nerf argument so far is split between the legitimate criticism of the game becoming far too easy, and at the same time the flawed idea that the game was fine previously; a case of people thinking artificial challenge is somehow a good design because there's no other point of reference in a game that was entirely full of it. Some nerfs were awful mind you, I addressed the aspects of the January nerf that went too far in my quote, and Retrodes losing health on top of all the nerfs they've already received is entirely pointless (The ones you encounter in the Rescue Camp missions should just have reduced health, there was no need to nerf Retrodes throughout every tier).

I can't claim to know what Three Rings is actually planning to do with future content, but honestly if "Tier 4" or whatever content occurs after D29 ever does come out, it's certainly going to have to be considerably harder than the joke that tier 3 currently is, but without relying on cheap shots and badly designed mechanics to achieve this. And it certainly wouldn't hurt to see both tier 3 and higher ranked missions rebalanced to not be a complete walk in the palk in the while we wait for new content.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 09:46

#22

Xylka-Mkii

+1 OP Just fix the game.

+1 OP

Just fix the game. Nothing more needed to be said.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 10:24

#23

The-Ark

They need to buff EVERYTHING,

They need to buff EVERYTHING, all the enemies are pathetic now. (Except devilites, and gremlins are ok i guess)

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 10:38

#24

Thimol

-----

Echoez probably hit the nail on the head as far as expressing my sentiments is concerned. I had some buffs for some monsters in mind, some reasonable, and some just outright crazy (Silkwing curse haze, anyone?). I think the biggest offender thus far would be how disgustingly slow the Zombies and Retrodes are, and how pathetic the Wolvers have become (seriously, I can remember only two times I've ever been hit by a Wolver after that patch).

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 13:44

#25

Fashama

Thanks for the nice reply

Thanks for the nice reply Shidara ^_^ I thought I would get back an answer written of pure evilness.
Maybe it would be a great option if players could choose the difficulty. For example, before you start a mission or arcade group, you will be asked about the difficulty (easy, normal, hard). If someone wants to join a friend, he / she is able to see in the status which difficulty setting the group has. The payouts shouldn't be different between the options because there are already tiers and not everyone wants a hard game. I don't know what you think, but I think that it's a good solution.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 15:59

#26

Lunatiqe

about using proto weapons...

I wanna use my awesome-looking gear a lot. I wanna see them cool explosions a lot. I wanna see swords flying or hear the murderous "bang" or the "pew pew pew" and the reloading of my blitz. It kinda makes me feel awesome. :)

Working a lot to get 5* gear then just going back to using proto gear for challenge makes me feel like fart. Well, it works for others but not for me... :/

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 17:23

#27

Yvanblo

+-1

For me this is either +1 OR -1, depending on how you look at it.

In other words; making the game harder by adding more fiend is not a good idea (I hate those guys). But considering that I went solo from Haven to the core (first time to the core for me), in 4 star gear without dying, that does seem a little easy. I picked an easy gate, just to see if I could do it, and it went much better than I thought it would. I ran through a couple sections with gremlin healers... those guys are pretty good at what they do, and can be tough to kill if you miss a hit. [by the way, I got 12,500 crowns from depth 0 to 29... really? That's less then 500 crowns per level... pitiful. If they want us in the arcade, it should be a little more profitable. I would have to do 800 levels to get a set of 5 star gear... 800!! If I did 8 levels a day, that would 100 days to get 5, 5 star items. Or to the core 32 times. Sure it's F2P, but dang. (I did buy an elevator pass, twice, and OCH, so I'm not F2P)]

I think that T1 and T2 are PERFECT difficulty! But T3, especially beyond the checkpoint, does need to be a little harder. When I saw the level difficulty indicator turn purple, I thought my journey was OVER! But I didn't have too much trouble clearing the 2 or 3 levels that were marked purple death.

I don't think the early or mid game needs any difficulty increase, it's great. RJP in 2 star gear is quite challenging. Most fiend levels without proper gear are quite challenging. Heck, even Snarby is tough in low level gear.

What I don't like is hearing people complain that the game is too easy, while they prance around with all weapon slots full, two awesome trinkets, and 3 max uv's on every item in their arsenal. To me, that's just poor sportsmanship. If it's too easy, either don't play, don't complain, or use gear that's not so good.

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 21:12

#28

Diamondshreddie

lately, ive been playing pokemon more frequently than SK, and i think it can be pinned on this one subject.

i play a heavy support role, sportibg all my mist bombs and vortex, maybe some other crowd control weapons, it doesnt really occurr to me though that... well... this is too easy!!! reason being, the level is done so fast that i didnt have time to think about how much im actually helping my teammates. the answer: not much :/

if the enemies are so easy, then it kind of demoralizes the entire mist bomber support weapon thing, challenges become easy enough that having even a very skilled bomber/support is not much more helpful, andin fact might be better just to have another full-on swordsman.

+1 to more challenging enemies

+1 to more challenging puzzles

+1 to more balancing of weapons (not just buffs or damage)

+1 to making SK more enjoyable and challenging altogether

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 01:32

#29

Shidara

Ah, mist bombers...

I remember those times when having a shivermist bomber was a godsend. Those were good times...

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 01:47

#30

Nubskills

Nyan nyan nyan nyan....

I would +1 this if it wasn't for the lag and latency issues. Anything that remotely moves fast in conditions of heavy lag and/or high latency can be a threat to a lot of players(try SK with your eyes closed and blinking). Although I guess maybe we'll get more gunners that way....

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This is totally silly.