Tweaking stats
Tue, 11/23/2010 - 01:27
There are some things I have seen that could do with some changes.
Normal Damage
As it stands now, normal damage is the standard and most common form of damage.
This pretty much means it will be the most prone to min-maxing.
Automatically, this means any gear not in possession of resistance to it will be passed over, regardless of their effects.
The only way to fix this is to either:
- Put Normal resistance on everything
- Add more diversity in damage types to make other resistances worth having
Obviously since the other forms are so uncommon they can be attributed to particular maps/monsters, people can just get new gear from week to week as new gates open and maps appear.
Essentially just rewarding abuse of the wiki.
Speed:Attack
Faster weapons, like the Autogun, have been rendered useless.
By it's extreme firing time and lack of movement during firing, it is seriously gimped.
Fast weapons need to do everything instantly and be the most mobile, slow weapons need to be the most deadly and powerful and reward predicting opponent movements and severely punish anything dumb enough to get in the way.
At the moment slower weapons are better because of how much knockback they dish out.
So, what needs to be done is pretty simple:
- First thing's first, make a clear relation between Attack and Speed.
- Then, balance them to a point where a fast weapon and a slow weapon are pretty even in terms of Pros and Cons, at the most base level.
- With this ratio in place, it will be simpler to adapt items and their stats based off of their abilities and allow players to develop a playstyle without being penalised.
This way, a weapon's defining attributes can be derived from it's stats much more accurately. Instead of having to buy a weapon to find out it sucks.
EDIT: What I meant to put in here was an explanation of the ratio itself, which I thought I wrote but couldn't read to see if I did or not.
Basically the ratio involves taking the number of bars in either stat at the maximum level of the item.
Then applying specific numbers to different star items.
0: 8
1: 9
2: 9
3: 10
4: 11
5: 13
There is a discernible difference in quality between different star ranks of weapons, just because there visually as well as mechanically needs to be one.
Example:
A 2-Star Autogun would have 8 bars in Speed and 1 in Attack.
A 3-Star Khorovod would have 3 Bars in Speed and 7 in Attack.
Shields
Their bonuses have changed quite drastically, but right now it is quite simple to see any unique variant that adds a type of resistance. Specifically Normal on shields without it, will be the most sought after, with Fire trailing just behind that.
While I'm sure this is anticipated, it takes a lot of the point out of offering a choice in shields, since the others would be used so incredibly rarely.
This is exactly the same as with armour.
By increasing the amount of player's weak points, you're also offering an enormous opportunity to min-max tank their way through dungeons solo using the same tactics as before to a much greater extent.
I'll probably edit this post when I can see the screen again.
Tue, 11/23/2010 - 08:18
#2
Shoebox- I changed the name
Shoebox- I changed the name of this thread. Please refrain from inappropriate posts.
Tue, 11/23/2010 - 11:12
#3
I only complain about the
I only complain about the 'normal' status for Armor and Helm, some don't have normal defense, whats the point of that?
Wed, 11/24/2010 - 00:31
#4
Half chicken, half woman, all breast.
Right now, this game apparently processes data at a similar rate to an FPS.
Spiral Knights is more like a first person shooter in terms of the way we perform networking. - Andrjez
But I am able to play it entirely one-handed if need be, regardless of how difficult the game actually is.
Using my mouse, I can set block, strafe, attack, move and change weapon. All in one hand.
And play to a level similar to those using a controller, if not better.
What I want to know is fairly simple. If you're anticipating a level of activity similar to an FPS, but I can play the game one handed, what are you going to do to change how intense the game is?
It shouldn't be possible to play an Action Game one handed. Ever.
I have a few solutions, though.
More intensive attacks
Give certain weapons special attacks, ones they can perform during a combo or after a charge attack if they time it right.
If a player suddenly changes direction on the 2nd or 3rd hit of a combo, it might do a high knockback overhead arc, like the Troika's charge.
This would allow you to hit monsters away from you if they got too close with weapons of all speeds.
It would leave you vulnerable afterwards, however.
Some weapons with long charge attacks, like the Troika, could have a cancel, that still deals a fair bit of damage, but not full damage or knockback.
If you attacked right at the peak of the attack animation you could damage an enemy twice, but leave yourself more vulnerable afterwards.
If you're moving in a certain direction during an attack, you might be able to do a different attack.
Bombs could be thrown in front of you if you move backwards while dropping it.
Guns wouldn't get any special attacks, instead you would be able to switch to them almost instantly during a sword combo.
Guns could become special attacks, allowing you to chain combo your gun and sword.
Hit once with your Khorovod then when you hit next or previous weapon, pull out your gun and do an attack.
Faster weapons would switch and attack quicker, allowing for this to create some damaging combos.
Cap charge speed
It's kind of ridiculous how fast some weapons charge with a few Ultras on hand.
It needs to be capped at a certain speed, because it is so easy to rely only on the charge attack of a specific weapon if you move fast enough.
Especially with guns.
It needs to be lowered overall so that all weapons can do one fairly easily, but not able to be reduced so much I can accidentally shoot a charge attack off when I'm normal firing (which has happened before).
Change bomb function
Bombs right now, are all charge only. Which, while it balances out bombs, it makes them difficult to use and generally, less fun to use.
If they're too powerful to be used as a main weapon, turn them into sub-weapons.
Being a sub-weapon, they are usable at any time. Like flasks, you would hit the bomb button and the bomb would come out. You could then cook them or drop them. You would use switch weapon to put the bomb away if you decide not to use it.
You would only be able to carry one bomb at a time in the sub-weapon slot, to balance this out.
Bombs would be able to dropped in groups of 1, 3 or 5, depending on the type.
Two bombs could not be dropped within the same explosion radius, as to stop monsters being damaged more than once by the explosions.
Crystal bombs and Gravity bombs would only be dropped one at a time, but have increased range and slightly higher attack.
Blast bombs, Vaporizers and other similar bombs, would be able to be dropped three at a time.
Five at a time bombs would be Proximity Mines.
These would be bombs that could be dropped, but only explode if a monster enters the radius.
The radius would be so small and their damage would be pretty average, that it would take one and a half mines to do the same damage as one bomb.
They're for blockading routes, slowing down or snaring enemies that chase you, as well as just an alternative to regular bombs.
Now here's the big change.
Bomb placement could be out all at once, but they would have a recharge time that starts from their explosion time.
So, if you drop three bombs at once, it might take you thirty seconds to drop them all again.
Dropping Five Proximity mines would mean having to wait until they explode or expire (without an explosion) before they count down.
Cooking (charging) a bomb, would decrease the recharge time of bombs, but also reduce the number you would be able to drop at a time.
You wouldn't be able to drop three charged bombs all at once, but dropping three charged bombs would stop you dropping bombs for a shorter period than dropping them all at once.
Changes to energy slots
This one is pretty simple, but they should come in 7 log-in day forms, for those who play more casually. For 50~75 energy a piece so free players would have access to them.
The 30 calendar day forms would be 150~200 still, to make it more affordable than buying 4 log-in day ones a month.
It would allow free players to use them without forcing them to buy CE on the exchange and allow more casual players to spend less energy.
Wed, 11/24/2010 - 05:39
#5
let's see...
i tottally agree with only one of your statments, and it is making bombs a secondary that you can get everywhe...because it is pretty much what it is now, but we still need to buy a slot only to get it to everywhere you want. Also, i liked most parts of the system you described.
About the 7 login days...hmmm...let's see, an make some calc: every time i login, i play, at most, in exceptional days, 4 hours, so let's say, 1 time per week, the rest of the time beinh aan average of 2:30 every other day. 7 Login days would be something like 168 hours played!...my point is, since the beggining of the month, when i first began playing, i have a total of, more or less, 30 hours, at most....so, making it in login days with a price that free can aford would render useless the 30 calendar days, because this, and because that, even if the player don't play for a lot of time, he will still have it...what i consider an injustice in some cases...
Wed, 11/24/2010 - 14:44
#6
> But I am able to play it
> But I am able to play it entirely one-handed if need be, regardless of how difficult the game actually is.
Using my mouse, I can set block, strafe, attack, move and change weapon. All in one hand.
And play to a level similar to those using a controller, if not better.
What I want to know is fairly simple. If you're anticipating a level of activity similar to an FPS, but I can play the game one handed, what are you going to do to change how intense the game is?
It shouldn't be possible to play an Action Game one handed. Ever.
I have a few solutions, though.
==
I disagree. Strongly. Whether you can play a game one handed or not has no determination on whether it is a good game or not.
Tell you what: I'll hook up my brainwave helmet, and play it with no hands and only one brain. Do you think this makes it bad?
So you have an input device that puts every needed control on one device. Bad? Not when a 5-button chording device can completely replace a keyboard.
So you can play as well as a joystick. Does that mean joystick-capable games are bad?
You play a well-designed input device.
I play a piano-like keyboard.
Your input device does everything you want.
My input device doesn't; I'd love for it to do other things.
And your superior input device means the game is bad?
> It shouldn't be possible to play an Action Game one handed. Ever.
I disagree. I think that the moment a game becomes "twitch-based, make it hard to control, make it all based on your reaction speed", is the day it becomes another Warcraft/Starcraft wanna-be. And those were extremely successful twitch/reaction games, in spite of , not because of, being twich/reaction games.
Wed, 11/24/2010 - 15:09
#7
Missing the point entirely
If I can play the game one handed and still beat it, regardless of the amount of buttons I have, then yes, it is bad.
If you could play Console game using one-hand, that would belie a lack of notable functions.
Something obviously needs to take away from how simple it is to play this game, because if there's no statistical depth and there's a lack of immersive dungeon environments, that leaves you with just gameplay to keep people playing.
And while with the current set-up and your brainwave controller, you might be having fun with the game, I find the only thing that takes any concentration is movement. The most basic element of the game.
So something does need to change, because for pretty much any competent gamer, it's just too simple.
Wed, 11/24/2010 - 17:18
#8
By this logic, the Kinect is the best gaming controller ever.
By this logic, the Kinect is the best gaming controller ever...
...You know, because it uses the whole body!
Wed, 11/24/2010 - 17:39
#9
Peter Molyneux cursed the Kinect, it is doomed to suck
Please, we all know the best controller ever is the Power Glove.
But this doesn't have anything to do with controllers.
All combat is right now is just a series of me repeating the same actions over until all the monsters die.
Shielding to knock enemies away, beating them down with a charge attack, or running around them in circles and setting them on fire.
It doesn't even matter what protection your shield offers, since if you shield before a monster attacks it knocks them away and their attack misses.
The only thing people have to worry about are projectiles and fire.
Occasionally a monster will rush forward and I'll change direction so they overshoot and then I blast them.
Ash Wolvers are the only mildly challenging monster because they can teleport in the middle of attacking or dying.
And even then the sound they make when they warp lets me know when to shield to knock them away from my behind.
In the last preview I played using two buttons. All I did was move around and charge attack with my Avenger/Silversix.
The only thing that really changed is that levels are super cramped compared to how they were before.
Wed, 11/24/2010 - 20:54
#10
Hmm...
So what if:
1. You
Hmm...
So what if:
1. You can't just shield, and then charge.
Maybe the monsters can learn to stay in formation -- especially the big battles. If your shield hurts some, the others stop, and wait -- if you drop to charge, they attack, if you drop to attack, they retreat, and if you wait, they pound on your shield -- slowly, but repeatedly -- until it breaks.
And actually, that sounds like a clockwork type of monster team. So maybe a new construct monster that is basically a "soloers die, only raids and big parties go past this point" encounter.
2. What if your "running around in circles" was countered by intelligent monsters? Heck, right now they seem to run around me a lot.
3. If projectiles are so devistating, why not give some monsters some projectiles. Maybe some constructs that are super strong on a ranged weapon that you have to charge, as guards for other creatures that can only hit you up close, that have learned to wait until you knock their pets down and then they follow up.
4. In general, you're describing "limited monster attack patterns", rather than any actual game flaw or problem.
===
Were you able to do this all the time in the past? Is this a case of "Now that I've got ultra shield fully charged I can do this"? Could you do it while you had weaker equipment? Can you still do it now that no shield has all defenses?
I fully agree on the attack speed one. Fast weapons perhaps deal more hits quicker, but still leave you just as immobile as slower weapons while you are in the middle of your attack. I just recently switched from the thwack hammer to the cautery sword and well.. I can barely get that 3-hit combo of the cautery off without getting hit myself. That extra attack speed isn't worth it compared to a similar mobility, lower damage and no knock-back. Being able to keep running around while hitting would be a good pro to go along with faster weapons