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A reasonable energy suggestion

6 replies [Last post]
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 22:19
Ma3a
Legacy Username

I came across an idea that I thought I'd throw out and see what folks thought...

After playing for a few days, I came to realize that I always had a couple of energy points left over in my mist tank; not enough to do anything with (less than 10 points, and most times 2-3), but enough that I felt like the points were wasted if I was 'done for the day' anyway.

Here's my idea:

Have a second energy storage bank that you can put unused ME into. Have it be NOT able to trade from, only use yourself. Have it be capped at, say, 300 units.

Since I'm not hovering over the game waiting for my tank to refill, the only thing that the 'left-over' points in the mist tank are really doing is making the recharge time a bit less (maybe by an hour or so) for the next day. If I'm already done for the day, then I'd like to be able to have those couple of extra points the next day for that one revive, or e-gate, or something.

Or, I can save those points up to the cap for crafting that lvl5 recipe if, say, I just got the last material piece I needed while crawling, and don't have any CE or enough crown to buy 300 units of CE to do the crafting.

I know that there are probably ways to abuse this, and I know that it would cut into the CE market, but with the energy in it being not sell-able and capped, I think it would work.

What do you think?

-Ma3a

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 23:01
#1
sabriath
Legacy Username
Already been discussed

This has been suggested in a different way....paying CE to increase the capacity of the ME tank. I honestly (as an economics/business guy) cannot see how that can be effectively done for both players and 3R profits. Having 2-3 points left over for today isn't wasted until you're away for roughly at least 20 hours, putting you almost in the same boat as the "casual player."

In order for 3R to not lose profit in this idea, you would get a temporary increase in ME equal to the CE you spend (so spending 300 CE to get +300 ME temporary). When you use ANY energy in the temporary tank, the temp tank will decrease in capacity until it's all used up. This amounts to the exact same thing as you not having the temp tank to begin with....here's an example:

you have 100 energy, you use 97, giving you 3 left. You spend 300 CE to get +300 TME capacity (you still have 3/400 ME). 24 hours later, you get +100 making it 103/400 ME. You use 103 energy, bring you to 0/397 ME.

Compare that to:

you have 100 energy and 300 CE, you use 97, giving you 3 ME left. 24 hours later, you get +100 but max out at 100/100 ME. You use 103 energy, which means you are now at 297 CE and 0 ME.

It amounts to the same thing. If 3R were to do something different than this, they would suffer in profits, and players would still complain that they want more. Call me capitalist, but 3R comes first in my opinion....if they don't make enough to support the game, then we don't have a game to play, that simple.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 07:02
#2
Ma3a
Legacy Username
--Having 2-3 points left over

--Having 2-3 points left over for today isn't wasted until you're away for roughly at least 20 hours, putting you almost in the same boat as the "casual player."--

I guess I qualify as a 'casual player' then. When I run out of ME, I'm pretty much done for that day. If I play again the next day, I don't come back until about the same time the next day, so the extra few minutes that the left-over ME points gets me is, for me, a moot point. If I spent 1-2 hours crawling the Clockworks, then that was my play for the day. If I spent 1-2 minutes crafting an item, then that was my play.

As a casual player, I think the game is very well balanced. I don't want to change the size of the mist tank, or do away with the current CE system. But, as a casual player, I would still like to know that I can achieve the higher ranks eventually. I would also want to get the most out of what energy points I have.

I still don't think that my suggestion is too unreasonable; you would only be able to 'bank' ME, so you are still paying for the energy in that storage. I.E., if I wanted to use just ME for crafting a 5*, it would still take me, at minimum, 3 days of doing nothing else to get the energy together for the craft. With a 300 point cap, I can't see that cutting that harshly into the CE market. Regular and hard-core players will still gladly purchase CE to continue their extended play times.

I don't know, maybe the game economics are too delicate to allow for it. That's why I asked for opinions on the idea. :)

-Ma3a

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 08:12
#3
sabriath
Legacy Username
But that's the point

Waiting for 3 days in order to get 300 ME built up in order to craft a high-end item is the point I'm trying to make.....you can't do that in SK. The point of the high-end equipment is the profits for 3R, so avoiding them (by letting your "free energy" tank build up) will force 3R to lose profits.

The best thing for you to do is use your 100 ME for the day to grind the clockworks for crowns....10 energy per level, do about 8 to 10 levels a day, make sure you explore EVERYTHING before hitting any switches, and get everything you can out of it. After 100 ME is used, you should have at least 4k. You can then put an offer up for CE using crowns and come back tomorrow. Rinse and repeat until you've built up CE, voila, you didn't have to spend a dime.

However, CE is put into the game first by players who pay 3R for them....so the CE that you gain (even though you may not have paid $.01 for them), is still profit for 3R. When you are required to use 300 energy to craft an item, for example, that means at LEAST 200 CE is required, which is 3R getting paid. What you are asking is for the ability of increased ME storage, which avoids this "payment," there's just no feasible way for 3R to implement anything like this without losing profit (unless it is as ridiculous as I stated above with temporary ME, which amounts to the same thing).

Think of it like this, if everyone was a casual player and only used their 100 ME each day, 3R would make $0. The only solid profits 3R is pushing towards is anything that requires more than 100 energy to buy/craft, circumventing that is deadly to 3R, period.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 21:59
#4
Ma3a
Legacy Username
So, let's take this to its conclusion...

Tier 3 will, eventually, only be available to paying players.

"The best thing for you to do is use your 100 ME for the day to grind the clockworks for crowns....10 energy per level, do about 8 to 10 levels a day, make sure you explore EVERYTHING before hitting any switches, and get everything you can out of it. After 100 ME is used, you should have at least 4k. You can then put an offer up for CE using crowns and come back tomorrow. Rinse and repeat until you've built up CE, voila, you didn't have to spend a dime."

Since both paying and non-paying players can do this, why would anyone put their CE up to be traded for crown? The logical answer is: they won't.

Eventually, this will be realized by enough players that there won't be a market for CE, as no-one will be willing to give away the equivalent of real money in trade for something that they can get themselves for free. Why sell 100 CE for roughly 4k crown when I can burn my ME to get the same crown, come back the next day, and have another full ME tank, 4k crown, and still have my 100CE? "Rinse and repeat" for that equals another day burning ME, come back the next day, and yet another full ME tank, 8K crown, and STILL have 100CE.

Thus, the 'casual player' will be capped at Tier 2, as he'll have no way to get 4-5* equips no matter how many days playing he puts in, or how many days' play he's willing to sacrifice.

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 03:00
#5
sabriath
Legacy Username
....dot dot dot...

> Since both paying and non-paying players can do this, why would anyone put their CE up to be traded for crown? The logical answer is: they won't.

Recipes and items in the game cost crowns, even upgrading costs crowns AND CE....so there will always be a demand on both sides of the line. This is why the market will always work even if people realize they could "just wait" (not everyone is willing to wait, that impatience causes demand enough to keep the market going).

>Thus, the 'casual player' will be capped at Tier 2, as he'll have no way to get 4-5* equips no matter how many days playing he puts in, or how many days' play he's willing to sacrifice.

Not true...as long as there is demand based on impatience, a 'casual player' can eventually build up enough CE from crowns to get him 4-5* equips. In fact, I did a run yesterday and used roughly 200 energy (80 ME, 120 CE) and bought 3 CE with crowns to spare...going over the investment cost.

1. If everyone did it, the market would climb in price (purchasing CE with crowns raises price due to more demand for CE)
2. When the market climbs to a point where income cannot afford the CE based on the initial investment, demand slows to a crawl...forcing the market to drop
3. As prices drop to a good level, rinse/repeat from 1

I am not seeing the problem....CE should never be avoided, and I'm sorry that you and casual players find it "unfair," but it's a working business model -- I'm 99.9999% certain that 3R will not implement anything even remotely close to this (unless they are feeling generous).

Wed, 04/27/2011 - 04:09
#6
SirNiko
Legacy Username
Kingdom of Loathing addressed

Kingdom of Loathing addressed this by allowing you to save up several day's worth of energy if you didn't use it all.

Of course, Kingdom of Loathing also features alternate per-day methods of generating energy, so not playing during a day results in you getting less energy per week than a player who logs in each day and carefully uses the energy to perform per-day tasks that give you energy boosts.

I would like to see a system where the energy I don't use in a day is not lost if I don't return in less than 24 hours when my tank is full. I'd like more wiggle room than that to play optimally.

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