Tier 3 Fiends really need to be nerfed. They already deal a ridiculous amount of shadow damage even when you wear 5* shadow-resistant gear. There are NO armors that have worthy shadow fire resistence against them. Yes, the fallen armor set has fire resistance as well as the divine veil/mantle along with shock. The Valkrie set has a damage bonus VERY HIGH versus fiends. HOWEVER, the fallen armor set has a damage penalty versus fiends - VERY HIGH! The divine veil/mantle has only ONE damage bonus versus fiends on one of the two pieces of equipment and that is a MEDIUM damage bonus. The Valkyrie set makes you very weak to fire so if you get hit (and I know that it's impossible to not get hit by one) by a Tier 3 fire-based fiend, you will get at least more or half of your health drained. I noticed the armors that are that defend against fiends have very horrible weaknesses or not strong enough bonuses. Can Valkyrie set please have its fire weakness taken away? Can the fallen set please have its penalty versus fiends reduced? Can BOTH the Divine Veil and mantle have a damage bonus versus fiends medium? its amlost impossible to go solo.
Fiends
Fiends get nerfed? Don't take away my fun! I love avoiding em. I love walking through a fiend level unscathed while others get slammed for damage. Radiant Sun Shards is a beautiful thing. And negates a lot of the fallen armor set.
Learn the game. Get some skill. Come back when you got some.
Nah, the game has been nerfed enough, if anything, we should increase the difficulty.
I bet you guys die a lot though and even if you don't you guys probably take forever in dealing with them. It doesn't matter. Fiends need to be nerfed you guys get some smarts.
Skold-The Drac. I was talking about going solo you ignorant fool. Going solo is harder than going in group as i discussed in the thread. read it.
I'd love to see you beat a devilite level with RSS without anyone by your side and no trinkets. let's see.
God....
Oh no, not another one of these guys.
P.S. Anyone with a piercing sword/bomb and a decent amount of skill can fly through a fiend level without any deaths. Fiend levels can be one of the fastest levels in the game, due to their low health.
He insulted me. I did not do anything to him.
" Fiends need to be nerfed and you guys get some smarts
I was talking about going solo you ignorant fool"
Those were insults last I checked.
Skold-The-Drac:
"Fiends get nerfed? Don't take away my fun! I love avoiding em. I love walking through a fiend level unscathed while others get slammed for damage. Radiant Sun Shards is a beautiful thing. And negates a lot of the fallen armor set.
Learn the game. Get some skill. Come back when you got some."
Your-Enemy:
"...I was talking about going solo you ignorant fool..."
Later on, Your-Enemy:
"He insulted me. I did not do anything to him."
Sounds to me like Skold was giving you some advice, then you clearly insulted Skold and denied the act.
Learn the game. Get some skill. Come back when you got some? Gingermace those are insults to.
Refer to the post by mana above yours.
That's not a way to give advice.
But it wasn't an insult. An insult would be telling you you have no skill and shouldn't play the game. What he said was to make sure you have gotten as good as you can get before asking to nerf things.
Advice should not be given where the person tells the other to go get some skill. Instead the person should just tell them what to use. God.
Cutters/Flourishes/RSS/DBB make for some of the best Greaver destroyers. Slow swords do too (Sudaruska, DA) but the margin of error is extremely high and unforgiving if you miss.
As for Devilites, beat them at their own game. Pick up a Magnus if you're going on a solo foray through Devilite territory, or an ASI Blitz in teams. Trust me. Blitz is extremely underrated vs Devilites, one charge spray can take out a ton of them.
But yeah, ultra optimized gear is nothing if you don't have the skill to employ them effectively. This is the beauty of fiends. They're the truest test of your individual skill.
Gear< Skill (in PvE at least) Someone could spend 500 bucks on this game and buy an entire five star arsenal after playing for a day and be a terrible player, even with perfectly UVd 5 star gear. However truly skilled players complete vanaduke runs in proto. Telling somebody what gear to use gives an advantage, but building skill is always better.
Im not going to argue anymore to keep this from dragging on to much longer.
The way I see it, Skold was giving you advice for posting on the forums. As far as I know, many of the forum regulars are people who have just about reached the top of their equipment and skill capacities and who know the game very well. Skold was telling you to get some skill before coming back because (as has been mentioned) Fiends make up a family of monsters whose defeat is more dependent on skill than equipment.
Anyway, I think Arctifice basically covered most of the weapon advice and I've already told you what I use. Slow swords are useful for Greavers because of their wide range and damage, but Flourishes/Barbs are favored for their speed and the fact that Piercing is strong against Fiends. Antigua/Silversix/Argent Peacemaker are viable options for Devilites because they allow you to kite around while dealing damage.
If there's one thing to learn about Fiend behavior, it's that their attacks will generally be interrupted with a single hit. If you see the attack indicator and you have a fast weapon, try to interrupt the attack.
right now, im liking the challenge, but of course i have my own gear for them;
Helmet: Divine Veil (fiends dmg: med)
Armor: Skolver Coat (dmg bonus: med)
Shield: Aegis
Primary Weapon: Final Flourish
with MY gear i get Fiend Dmg Bonus: Very High
of course, not everybody has my gear loadout so im pretty sure its difficult for others. (especially with the Valykrie set [i had Miracle set and the stun was so bad...until the patch came and it went away :D] ) but really, fiends could get a nerf, not a one,two,three hit and ur out nerf but something where it can still be a challenge
p.s. i have no idea what the ragers are talking about skill, but im pretty sure a skilled player with LAG against a fiends, he/she is pretty much dead. Oo
p.p.s. please dont tell me a skiled player can still kill fiends with lag. just please, dont
I am not liking this user...
And I alread hate fiends myself, yet would not ask for a nerf. Why? Simply put, I am ill prepared to fight them, and my latency is enough to cause half of the problems. Asking for a nerf would be selfish of me.
"I bet you guys die a lot though and even if you don't you guys probably take forever in dealing with them. It doesn't matter. Fiends need to be nerfed you guys get some smarts."
I have a friend who I called in to help with fiends once/twice. While I was bushwhacking, he went ahead of me. By the time I got there, the room was half clear. Through the stage, he was one-step ahead of me, clearing it out as if it were a normal stage.
So fiends ARE easy for some people.
Sounds like YOU need to get some 'smarts'. (who even SAYS that anymore!?)
I just avoid their stages entirely. I thought that'd be the obvious solution were you not prepared for them. Seems not.
Askulan? You mind raging on this idiot?
Everytime I see this thread name, I keep thinkin' it says "flesh" instead of "fiends."
And that's not good at all!
"p.s. i have no idea what the ragers are talking about skill, but im pretty sure a skilled player with LAG against a fiends, he/she is pretty much dead. Oo
p.p.s. please dont tell me a skiled player can still kill fiends with lag. just please, dont"
There's your problem. No amount of tweaks to devilites will change the fact that they'll kill you before you can react due to lag.
Of course, you could make then deal a ridiculously low damage so you can rush thru them, but that will ruin the experience for everyone else.
You are trying to fix the wrong side of the issue.
Dude the issue is over. You are taking this way to personal just because of something I said. Remember it could have been worse. There could have been vulgar language or seriously hurtful name-calling.
you darn near made my protein shake come out my nose :)
When idiocy comes along, call in the artillery. :)
And if you play with fire, you will get burned.
You're playing with fire by keeping this thread around. Graveyard it or prepare to meet... death...
._.
I'm still in T2, so I wouldn't know what T3 fiends are like. But as far as I can tell, heavy swords absolutely destroyer Greavers, and apparently bombing is a good tactic for Devilites (says so on the wiki. :P). Or you could use a toothpick against the Devilites.
Try to not use a toothpick against Greavers. If you use the full combo, you'll end up thrusting yourself into the midst of the swarm and getting mist-locked by their mist attack.
Mist-locking isn't an issue anymore, unless you're dealing with shock or freeze. Toothpicks work very well against Greavers if you shield-cancel.
The issue is indeed over. This thread is done, and the nerf denied. You're right, there could have been worse language, and had you irritated me on a bad day further, it would've come from me. You have probably yet to see me really pissed off, and believe me, you don't want to see me pissed off when you're this new to the forums.
Also, my post was approx 45% personal. The rest was fact.
Also, somethings. One does not simply call someone ignorant because it sounds like a negative term without first knowing what is so 'ignorant' about the situation. One also does not simply insult other players intelligence without prior knowledge of them, or how REAL pros deal with the situation. (I myself not being among them). One also does not simply ignore the clearly placed 'edit' button.
Telling you to 'get skill' is a legitimate piece of advice. Gear=/=skill. I had a T2 random follow me to T3, and could dodge gunpuppy bullets easier than I ever could at my peak. Needless to say, he survived longer than I did.
Also Nicoya-Kitty, an ex-Knight, fought the Jelly king with piercing weapons only. The result was success.
Skill>Gear. Gear only helps so much. In the end, it's all down to the player's ability to cope to the situation, however far a jump it is. Player fails to cope=death.
hmmm do you mind me telling you "Psychodestroyer, learn the game, get some skill, come back when you got some." Telling someone is ignorant is just as bad as telling someone off like that because that also sounds like a negative term. You have no reason to get 'pissed' off at me because you are only wasting your time with spilled milk. I know you may not like me and thats ok. But let me just say this. I said he was ignorant because of the way how he told me off like that. What he said had a negative meaning to it and I do not think he knew that. If it has no negative meaning at all then would you like it if someone called you a noob? That word is used so many times to put down so many people and it did, including me in the past before I started learning about the arsenal, the UVs and... no not trinkets I'm all bare bones [I am sorry if I am not as rich as you PROs to afford these things], the different types of monsters, the methods to defeat bosses including Vanaduke, and the different kinds of people who play online games like this one. I am not going to say any names, but I met them. They have an odd, friendly, or a behavior I just can not stand. Oh well, I put up with them especially the trollers. That's how I see it. And if Skold's statement was meant to insult me... then wow, my argument stands for 'insulting' him. But so that everyone can stop thinking I am such a bad guy... I am sorry for calling him a fool or any other 'names', I did go kind of far. I just meant to say he was ignorant for saying those things. He just did not have to. This is why they post the rules in the forums.
P.S. I was not focusing when I wrote the thread. I was angered by how Tier 3 DEVILITES [not the Trojans, Greavers or silkwings] kept alternating throwing stuff at my face every 0.09 seconds while moving and shield canceling. Shadow shields do not hold well against multiple shadow objects I guess in Tier 3 nor against the Grimalkins even though they deal shadow damage. I meant to write how the Divine, Fallen, and Valkyrie sets seem to have something missing versus fiends in my opinion. The Divine set is missing a medium damage bonus versus fiends on one of the 2 pieces of equipment. Do not think it will make much of a difference. I do not know it just looks odd when I look at it. It makes me want to go to Punch and get the same UV for the other piece. The Fallen set could use an overall Medium damage penalty at least versus fiends and the Valkyrie set could have n overall LOW decreased weakness to fire or some deacreased weakness to fire. I do not know how that makes sense according to how heavenly beings are. I thought all heavenly beings are resistant to fire and are a fiend's worst enemy. Seems to me like the Valkyrie set is the worst enemy to other all fiends except fire-based ones. That could be probably why all the original Valkyries left thier armor for the Spiral Knights to use huh? If this idea was already mentioned, well I'm gonna mention it again.
In response to the first block of text.
No, I don't mind being told that in fact. Because if someone says that, it's either true or up to me to prove otherwise.
"You have no reason to get 'pissed' off at me because you are only wasting your time with spilled milk."
That makes no sense.
"I said he was ignorant because of the way how he told me off like that."
Shows you don't know what 'ignorant' means. In short terms, it's 'not knowing/lack of knowledge'. Using that term was irrelevant to Skold's post. If you're referencing the fact Skold did not know whether or not you 'possessed skill', 'ignorant' still does not fit. It's used much more generally.
Again, with noob, you're supposed to prove people otherwise. Common practice calling people noobs, for a variety of reasons. If the punishment doesn't fit the crime, THEN I get annoyed.
The only time I get called noob is in any FPS game where some idiot keeps yelling out 'camping noob' or something. Although I don't even camp actually. People just whine and moan for no reason so much in FPS it gets really annoying...
"[I am sorry if I am not as rich as you PROs to afford these things]"
I see you missed the part about me myself not being 'pro'. In any case, I'm not exactly poor, but I don't waste my time with trinkets much. The only ones I have are the ones I got from the missions, and I don't really use them.
On a lighter note: At least you HAVE fiend fighting gear. I don't, but even so, my connection is such that by the time I see their attack animation, it's too late to shield.
General advice: Avoid fiend stages or at the very least Fire ones. You have to know when you're out of your depth.
What gear are you trying to use if you get surrounded and slapped to death by entire groups of devilites? bring a callahan, shoot, shield cancel dodge, shoot. Or if possible an ASI VH blitz too for devilite only stages since that allows you to take down groups faster than callahan AND KEEP YOUR DISTANCE since blocking close to a devilite on T3 is mostly futile.
Just like greavers you should avoid getting swarmed and keep them within line of fire to shut all down with your own attacks.
Given that fiends are supposedly on the same level as all the other enemies, I think that they are in fact outliers in terms of difficulty. Compared to wolvers, mecha knights, retrodes, zombies, and the likes, they are far harder. There is for most part, not much of an argument against that.
That being said, I'd rather see all of the above be brought up to par with devilites in terms of difficulty, as well as maybe a small nerf to devilites. Then we can have a nice, smooth, difficulty level without one ridiculously hard enemy, and 15 different ones...
Also- go read my book. I covered this in it. Stop tricking me into writing the same thing 800 times. :( http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/53465
Devilites do stand out as the most dangerous enemies. Others are too weak, devilites too strong (hitting swift and hard). Even with suitable gear (I have Crest of Almire, Divine Veil and Sinister Skelly Mail) you can't take more 2 hits in devilite levels (the 3rd would kill you - remember not everyone uses double heart trinkets), while you'd be still fine for gremlin/mecha/beast/jelly maps.
They are especially worse in the Dark City maps, as those rooms are quite small, and you may be surrounded by them. You have all but one option - kill them immediately as they spawn. If you miss some of them, welcome yourself to a world of hurt, as the tiny room + devilite lightning attack speed = no blocking or blocking until shield breaks.
I wouldn't mind if devilites telegraph their attacks for a bit longer before throwing it.
I think there's some merits in devilites taking a little longer to actually throw something. It feels right now that as soon as you notice them readying an attack it's already too late. And I think most people will agree that there is a large gap in difficulty between fiends and every other monster type in the game. I don't think the nerf has to be significant. Just a little favour to those less well equipped to make it through.
Of course, I think this should go hand in hand with buffs to other families. Making ones like beasts and undead closer to the level of challenge fiends currently offers should help make it a more balanced experience.
Is everyone content here now?
Imperialstriker. Technically you are also playing with fire by prompting that guy to come here to only cause more trouble. "Askulan? You mind raging on this idiot?" That's an explosion waiting to happen. Anyways, let's be nice now. It's horrible arguing over the internet.
Oh btw I worded some of my sentences wrong... again. "I said he was ignorant because of the way how he told me off like that" I meant to also add "he hurt my feelings as well as feeling that he belittled me" to that line. (ignorance: not knowing/lack of knowledge) I don't think he knew that he did because that's the reason why I responded to Skold. "You have no reason to get 'pissed' off at me because you are only wasting your time with spilled milk." I meant to say "You have no reason to get 'pissed' off at me because if you did... you will only be wasting your time with me. In other words, if you get mad at me. We will be arguing and it will keep going on and on and on about something that I said when it could have been resolved peacefully and painless OR you could just ignore, forgive, and forget." Hopefully that line makes sense now.
Graveyarding this thread... If there is ONE more comment from anyone. I mean any ONE MORE comment from anyone that makes its way here ever. You will not only make this thread more worse than it already is, but you will cause another argument or another worthless friendly conflict that involves putting down this thread. I don't think that is necessary... Read it from top to bottom and you will see what I mean.
Do not do it... Please. (see last 3 lines below)
If you are thinking about it right now, think again. Look ahead. Are you done thinking about it :]? What are you doing? Dude, click the 'Back' button please. The 'Back' button points to your left. It is approximately an inch or two from the top left-hand corner of your monitor.
Fiends do not need to be nerfed. People need to quit whining and learn how to deal with fiends. I use a Sudaruska for Greavers, DBB or AP for Devilites. No problem.
You also need to use the search bar. This has been brought up countless times, and the community has responded with a resounding "no".