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What are desired UV's for specific bombs?

32 replies [Last post]
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:32
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo

So, I'm doing two things.

1. Crafting bombs to sell

2. Waiting for the right UV to craft bombs that I will personally use.

A lot of knights do this, no?

So for Toxic vaporizer, and Fiery vaporizer, what UV should I keep, and what UV (that I won't keep) sells well in the AH. I generally sell at very reasonable prices, if not the lowest (to a point).

I roller a very high beast, and then a medium gremlin on a toxic the other day.

I have a Fiery with High undead.

Are the above UV's worth keeping, or just selling?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:43
#1
Bopp's picture
Bopp
status/vortex vs. damage bombs

The status-giving bombs (Ash of Agni, Voltaic Tempest, etc.) and the vortex bombs do some damage, but damage is not their main purpose; status or vortex is their main purpose. So the conventional wisdom is that you want big CTR on these bombs, but that damage bonus isn't worth much.

In contrast, the damage bombs (Nitronome, DBB, RSS, etc.) benefit from both CTR and damage bonus.

Your particular strategy depends on which bomber armor you wear, if any. By wearing two trinkets, one piece of Mad Bomber, and one other piece of bomber armor, you can achieve Maximum! CTR and Maximum! damage bonus, even without UVs on your bombs at all. On the other hand, if you're a sworder who carries Shivermist Buster into FSC, then you want to wear sworder armor and get big CTR on that bomb.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 12:59
#2
Nordlead's picture
Nordlead
The UVs you rolled are

The UVs you rolled are essentially useless, and personally I wouldn't bother to buy one. I wouldn't expect a knowledgable person to pay much more than the going rate of a vanilla vaporizer.

Status bombs only really benefit from CTR. Anything else is a waste of money. Why? Because the blast zone of a vaproizor is extremely small and is only there for an instant compared to the mist which is there for a few seconds. Also, the main point of those bombs is applying status effects, not dealing direct damage.

What you should keep is CTR Med or higher. You only need CTR Med and 1 trinket, piece of bomb gear, or full chaos set to get CTR Max!. CTR Low goes for 15-20kcr, CTR Med goes for ~120-150kcr, and I've never seen anything higher on the AH and never bothered to shop for them on the forums.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:12
#3
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
That makes sense

So then, is the damage from these bombs caused ONLY by the status? And is the status affect damage increased by having the damage bonus? Then if I'm reading correctly, Toxic line does no damage at all. OR is there explosion damage?

I tend to be an all around sort of player. I like to carry a sword, a gun and a bomb. I might eventually get another slot for a fourth weapon, seeing as it's only ~35,000 crowns a month to keep them active. I'm still looking into the best armor for running that way, and I'm keeping my eye's open for my first bomber gear, but not full bomber.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:38
#4
Bopp's picture
Bopp
small blast radius does immediate elemental damage

"So then, is the damage from these bombs caused ONLY by the status? And is the status affect damage increased by having the damage bonus? Then if I'm reading correctly, Toxic line does no damage at all. OR is there explosion damage?"

All of these bombs have a small blast radius that does immediate damage. The haze-style bombs are all elemental bombs, and the blast damage is elemental. They also induce a status, which in some cases (fire, shock, freeze thawing) can cause additional damage. If this is confusing, you might want to read the wiki pages on "Damage" and "Status effect", to get them straightened out. They are two completely separate phenomena in the game.

If you use a variety of weapons, then you're right not to focus exclusively on bomber armor, of course. Consider mixing sworder, gunner, and bomber armor, including Barbarous Thorn Shield (sword damage+2). Meanwhile, Chaos armor benefits all of your weapons (CTR+1, damage+1), Fallen armor benefits swords and guns (ASI+1), Swiftstrike Buckler benefits swords and guns (ASI+3) but offers terrible protection. And invest in trinkets if you can.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:32
#5
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
Thanks!

You both have been very helpful, and my upgrade path will be better because of you!

Thanks!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 18:04
#6
Halifix
I should mention that the

I should mention that the damage from fire benefits from your damage bonuses on the bomb, though. Still, no one wants those toxic bombs, which are also naturally not very popular. The fiery bomb is pretty useful in graveyards, though. Just not in FSC.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 18:57
#7
Juances's picture
Juances
~

^
Nope.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 23:02
#8
Fradow's picture
Fradow
@Halifix no, status don't

@Halifix no, status don't benefit from damage bonus. Haze bombs are wanted on some levels, they are not popular because they are not all-rounder.

They are just useful in crowded places, meaning RJP, FSC and arenas. The fire + shock combo destroy crowds very fast in RJP and arenas, and shock is still a useful status in FSC.

Also, poison is a perfect anti-mender (there was a time with arena with menders were hard ...)

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 01:41
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
I want a ctr poison bomb.

I want a ctr poison bomb. Tell me if you get one, even if its just a low, IGN Fehzor

Anyways, for all bombs CTR is preferable... although for blast bombs damage isn't so terrible. Electron/Graviton vortex can also benefit from a damage bonus, as it is very possible to kill enemies through repeatedly holding them in... even without a brandish charge. Shivermist buster benefits slightly from damage (as you can freeze+refreeze), but not enough to make it worth mentioning, DBB is great for a beast/undead damage UV.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:10
#10
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
Toxic

I'm working on the toxic for exactly that: an anti-mender device that I will always carry. T3 menders are annoying, to say the least, and any time you get more than 1 silk wing, those guys can lay down some healing power.

I'm working on a fiery bomb for OCH, anything I can do to knock down those obnoxious Mortafires... can't stand those guys.

@Fehzor; I'll keep that in mind

So other than RSS, which I don't like, which bombs should I pick up? I'm planning on Graviton vortex, because it looks cool, and will pair up nicely with elemental/shadow brandish swords, and/or gigawatt/blackhawk.

Thanks for all the input!

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:30
#11
Nordlead's picture
Nordlead
you really can't go wrong

you really can't go wrong with any bomb if you use it well. (there are a few exceptions), so pick whatever you like. Personally, I have Shivermist Buster, AoA, VT, DBB and Dark Retribution and it covers most of my bombing needs.

read this - http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Bombing_Guide

I only have a one real gripe with the guide. Whoever wrote it doesn't value that VT at all, but it is a great bomb. It slows down mobs, but doesn't break kiting. It deals significant damage if you have a lot of mobs grouped together (arenas, danger rooms, combined with vortex bombs). With zombies it will cause them to jump straight up and down lot of the time and causes them to have shorter zombie breath attacks. I use it pretty much anywhere there will be large groups of monsters.

VT will give higher damage output if enough monsters are in a small enough location than AoA, however with small groups (or single monsters) AoA will outdamage VT.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:06
#12
Juances's picture
Juances
~

Yvanblo, status bombs are not exactly good vs gremlins (besides VV and menders). If mortars annoy you, a VV is enough to make them drop their shield (well any status does that, the trick works without fire). Else, shiver them in place.

I always felt that AoA is a weak bomb. If there's a big group of enemies, a Voltaic deals more damage. If there's a small group, sun shards or DD can handle them easily and outDPS the fire.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 14:15
#13
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
Good advice

@Juances; I think I will stick with (due to needing to heating them to level 10) Freezing Atomizer (I have the 3 star heated already), Toxic Atomizer, and some time later bring on a Graviton Bomb, and maybe a Fiery Atomizer for fun. I may go for others at some point, like the Electron bomb, but I don't really like Lockdown.

DD, which one is that? I don't like the sun shards, too hard to use, at least if it's anything like the rock salt bomb I had (and traded for prestige...)

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 16:12
#14
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
If you're going to bomb, I'd

If you're going to bomb, I'd recommend making the following to mix and match:

Shiver, Ash of Agni, Voltaic Tempest, Electron Vortex (Graviton will work, but isn't as good due to no shock, keep in mind how good shock is on such a thing), Nitronome, Dark Briar Barrage, Radiant Sun Shards (although you don't like them... so don't if you don't want to) and Dark Retribution. And if you want it, Venom Veilor shouldn't be that terrible around healers.

Equip them like this-

-Status bomb
-Status bomb (or damage bomb, if you don't need additional status)
-Damage bomb
-Normal Sword or Gun; if you have extra in your budget you can make 3 different guns and 3 different swords to have a pierce/elemental/shadow of each. If you don't get RSS, you'll need a piercing sword/Callahan, or even an alchemer with fiend VH.

For instance, say you're fighting beasts-

-Shivermist Buster
-Voltaic Tempest (or Venom Veilor)
-Dark Briar Barrage
-Leviathan blade

Most of the time you'd be using Dark Briar Barrage to barrage them to death... if you encounter a random bunch of lumbers, you could easily shiver + voltaic them, and then finish them off with your leviathan blade.

Thats not to say that these are the only bombs, the others are all usable. These are just my recommendations for which bombs will be the best given a limited budget and no desire to make every single bomb... just to be a bomber.

Thu, 05/24/2012 - 01:50
#15
Goofio's picture
Goofio
Venom Veiler is great for the

Venom Veiler is great for the last stage of many arenas, including the fire arena in the Gauntlet.

Thu, 05/24/2012 - 08:32
#16
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
But not a full bomber

Fehzor, I'm not planning, currently, on making a mostly bomber loadout, but I will almost always carry 1 bomb, possibly 2. Also it's worth mentioning that I have a fair amount of 4 star gear in various departments that will compliment my bombs nicely.

I have;
SWORDS:
Ascended Calibur - Normal
Dark Thorn Blade - Piercing
Silent Night Blade - Shadow
Avenger - Elemental

GUNS:
Blackhawk - Shadow
Gigawatt Pulsar - Elemental
Toxic Catalyzer - Shadow
Antigua - Piercing (soon to be silversix)
Cryotech Alchemer - (not a fan of 2 shot style)

BOMBS:
Dark Reprisal MK2
Freezing Vaporizer MK2
Toxic Vaporizer - unbound
Fiery vaporizer - unbound

ARMOR:
Miracle Cloak
Sinister Skelly Suit

HELMET:
Ash Tail Cap
Flawed Mask of Seerus

SHIELD:
Wise Owlite Shield
Brisling Buckler

I am planning on upgrading to Freezing Atomizer, Toxic Atomizer, Silversix, crafting a Blazebrand, and maybe farming the Twins for the Plamsma Capacitor, and probably farming Snarby, again, for the Piercing bomb. I have 19 jelly gems, so I will be on my way to a Faust pretty soon as well.

You will notice that I have stopped at 4 star. The reason is that I am carefully planning my 5 star journey, and I don't want to mess it up. 5 star is not cheap, and I will get there eventually, but for now, I do pretty well in 4 star.

Any recommendations would be highly appreciated!!

Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:01
#17
Fradow's picture
Fradow
First, forget about poison

First, forget about poison bomb for now. It's not the best haze bomb you can choose : it only does a 10/20% defense debuff on enemies! (with a 50% attack debuff, but you shouldn't get hit in the first place). The only real reason to get it is to solo arena, because menders can be troublesome alone.

Instead, I would do Ash of Agni : fire is a reliable source of damage almost everywhere save fire resistant places. If you are concerned about FSC, do a Voltaic Tempest : shock works there.

But indeed, your first bomb 5* should be Shivermist Buster if you intend to do Vanaduke : against him (NOT the level before him), it's very effective. Elsewhere, there are mixed feeling about that bomb.

May I suggest a vortex tho ? It does wonder against about any crowd, and sword users will love you.

Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:28
#18
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
@Fradow

Graviton or Electron vortex? Electron is the one that you have to have Krogmo coins, right? If so, I hope Graviton is acceptable. I forgot to add it to my list of planned bombs, because it is certainly on my short list.

Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:09
#19
Fradow's picture
Fradow
Electron is better because of

Electron is better because of the shock, which can, sometime, get enemy to not be flinged at the end of the Vortex (and do a little additional damage, in addition to being the right damage type for FSC). I know it's a pain in the ass to get though.

Graviton is still good, because anyway you don't use Vortex bombs mainly for their damage but rather for the Vortex effect, which allow your mates to unleash their charges in it.

Be warned though : those bombs really get great at 5*. 3* is bad, and 4* is still very hard to use.

Thu, 05/24/2012 - 13:52
#20
Snarby-Lover-Me's picture
Snarby-Lover-Me
help!

what is DD???????

Thu, 05/24/2012 - 15:00
#21
Sederts-Alt's picture
Sederts-Alt
I think DD is a typo

Probably supposed to be DR

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:11
#22
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
Sweet bomb craft on my alt!

Just crafted a Fiery Vaporizer CTR High.

I need some advice; Do I sell it or use it on my main account? If I were to sell it, how much should I sell it for?

Thanks.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:28
#23
Bopp's picture
Bopp
use it

Do you like Ash of Agni? I do. If you plan to have Ash of Agni someday, then you might as well keep this bomb, as it's pretty close to optimal. If you plan never to have Ash of Agni, then sell the bomb to get money for other things. (Although this makes me wonder why you were crafting it.)

You want to avoid the situation where, six months from now, you want Ash of Agni, and you regret having sold your sweet Fiery Vaporizer just to buy some dumb accessory. :)

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:17
#24
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
Sounds like a plan

Thanks for the advice Bopp.

I am crafting for my own use, but I thought this might be a good opportunity to rake in a couple hundred thousand crowns. The only reason to sell it would be to fund my first 5 star loadout. Otherwise, yes, I am certainly planning to have an Ash of Agni... as soon as CE goes down... And I'm not one to buy accessories. Although I was very interested in the Love puppy monster pocket! But I had no time to grind for it, and had just spent 75,000 crown the day before. Even so, 175,000 was a lot, even for something that cute (my daughters were in love with those cute little fellas).

The funny part about it is I just decided to use the Fiery Vaporizer I crafted last week, it has Bonus vs Gremlin High (worthless, I know, but better than no UV). Ironic how literally the same day I decide to bind my first fiery v is the day I craft a really nice one that is actually worth keeping. Irony sucks sometimes.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:59
#25
Nordlead's picture
Nordlead
The real question is do you

The real question is do you value CTR High over CTR Med. In my situation I don't since I tack on a bomb CTR Med trinket the difference between high and medium would be wasted. So, I would trade down and pocket the difference in CE.

A medium can be purchased for slightly more than 2kce, a High can be sold for much higher than that (not sure the going rate, but you can browse the bazaar. 6-10kce is my estimate, but I'm not sure).

You wouldn't want to trade down if you never plan on using bomber gear/trinkets or a full chaos set.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:11
#26
Bopp's picture
Bopp
yes, but

Nordlead's giving good advice, but we should keep in mind that Yvanblo is more of an all-around player (post #3), so he may not be using a lot of bomber armor and trinkets. For instance, I take Ash of Agni into the Royal Jelly Palace, even when my armor and trinkets are optimized for swording. In that situation, it's really useful to have a big CTR UV on the bomb itself.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 12:40
#27
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
I think I will keep it...

I'm pretty sure I will keep it, granting that my math/logic works out: At level 10 heat, I will have CTR Ultra, correct? CTR high+ctr med (from level 10 heat)= ctr Ultra. Then, if I had any helmet/armor/trinket that gave +1 bomb ctr, I would have CTR: Maximum! Am I right?

If my logic is correct, then I have a very nice bomb, no? It's so tempting to sell the thing for huge profit... I don't have lots of money in the real world, so get rich quick schemes in video games really tempt me. I would never try them in real life, and in games it's not much of a gamble since I won't be losing much. I mean, the thing cost me 400 crowns to craft using mist energy on an alt account.

But at the same time... man that's some sweet CTR...

I should keep it...

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 13:31
#28
Bopp's picture
Bopp
Nordlead's point

Right: Heat level 10, paired with a High UV, gives you CTR Ultra.

Nordlead's point is that most armor/trinkets that enhance your bomb CTR give you +2, not +1. So wearing any of these put you over Maximum!. In that sense, a High UV is no better than a Medium UV.

On the other hand, Chaos Cowl/Cloak gives you only +1, so High is better than Medium with that piece. And if you're not getting any extra bomb CTR from armor/trinkets, then Ultra CTR is certainly a bit better than VH CTR.

Enjoy your bomb.

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 04:34
#29
Weegeeftws's picture
Weegeeftws
.....

Three OOO for Toxic bombs! Oh wait.... Three Cheers for Toxic bombs! Okay, I'm just being silly.
I too would be looking for a CTR on a Toxic bomb, but alas I already have my VV, so I shall just roll ._. I guess Punch ain't been to mean to me as of late xP

EDIT: I will say, however many people say that VT is a good bomb I still see it as an uncreative hybrid of the Shiv and AoA. It both stops and hurts an enemy. Best of both eh? No. It does a worse job. I guess if you have limited weapon slots go for it, if not use both Shiv and AoA (Obviously also depends on the depth you're on). Not totally useless, but I won't be getting one.

~The Mighty Cheese Knight; WeeGee

Thu, 05/31/2012 - 07:12
#30
Nordlead's picture
Nordlead
Weegeeftws - you don't

Weegeeftws - you don't understand the bomb then. VT does 30 damage each tick (S6 against zombies) to both that monster and all surrounding monsters. Throw down a VT at the start of a spawn area with 5+ zombies near each other and you'll easily be doing 90-150 damage per tick to every zombie which is greater than what AoA can manage (97). As you add more zombies you add more damage capability to the VT, but the AoA stays flat. If there are fewer zombies, then yea the VT would do less damage, but in most cases with only a few monsters I wouldn't be using either bomb anyways since I could just use my swords to quickly finish them off.

So, do you care to explain how VT really does a worse job than AoA? Personally, I have both bombs and think they are both great, however I use my VT more because I can use it in FSC and it actually contributes. AoA is useless in FSC and I have no use for Shiv in FSC (not even for Vana). If Ice Queen lair's didn't cost 450CE I'd be running that more and use my AoA a lot more often.

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:52
#31
Yvanblo's picture
Yvanblo
CTR HIGH Toxic vaporizer

I just crafted a CTR HIGH toxic vaporizer... I might be willing to sell it if the price is right. Shoot me an offer if you want, and we'll see what happens.

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 16:49
#32
Dukeplatypus's picture
Dukeplatypus
There's the Bazaar forum for

There's the Bazaar forum for that.

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