Spiral Knights - Bomber Defense: Can anyone answer this question…?

Bomber Defense: Can anyone answer this question…?

23 replies [Last post]

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 08:06

Metagenic

Okay, I don't want to sound like a total whiner but I have to point this out: bombers lack protection. Let's look at the armors available for every weapon class.

Swordsmen

Default: Skolver, Vog Cub

Shadow Lair: Snarbolax, Heavenly Iron

Total: 4 sets, with at least 1 set for protection against each of the special damage types

Gunners

Default: Justifier, Nameless, Shadowsun, Deadshot

Shadow Lair: none

Total: 4 sets, with at least 1 set for protection against each of the special damage types

Bombers

Default: Volcanic, Bombastic, Mad Bomber

Shadow Lair: Mercurial Demo

Total: 4 sets, with everything protecting against elemental and no sets for shadow or piercing protection

…

If anyone can give me a reasonable explanation of why bombers have no defense against two of the three damage types, go ahead.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 08:16

Bopp

don't know, but

I don't know, but I'll point out two things.

First, gunners also have Perfect Mask of Seerus (just to strengthen your complaint a bit ;).

It seems that, when Spiral Knights was designed, normal and elemental were definitely the "main" damage types. For example,
* slimes didn't do piercing damage
* there were no piercing swords or (pure) piercing bombs
* there were only one shadow sword and one shadow gun, and no shadow bombs.
If you wanted to do piercing damage to a beast or fiend, you had to use a gun. In contrast, there were several elemental guns and bombs, and two elemental swords, and tons of normal weapons. Over time, Three Rings has added more and more options. Perhaps they just haven't gotten around to non-elemental bomber armor yet?

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 08:15

Sederts-Alt

Well...

If you strech it (by a lot) you can say regular mercurial is bomber gear...
No not really.
Never mind.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 08:25

Trying

Adding on to what Bopp said, there were no howitzers or polyps so projectiles were usually elemental and projectiles are pretty much the biggest threat to bombers.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 09:11

Kraanx

come to think of it,

come to think of it, mercurial demo set should have piercing/normal defense, since its got some quicksilver parts in it.....

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 11:39

Oatmonster

Lick

@Kraanx There are NO quicksilver parts in the mercurial demo armors

A demo suit made from gremlin technology. It is for the bomber that wants a boost of speed, more power and a greatly reduced chance of dying by electrocution... which is probably every bomber out there.

The mercurial in mercurial demo comes from this definition of mercurial.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 19:20

Coitara

You could lump in Chaos set

You could lump in Chaos set as bomber-like too (imo) but that's also elemental defense.

Could certainly help people wanting to be bombers if there were more defense variety for them.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:42

Aquajag

I dunno, but here's two

I dunno, but here's two comments:

1) This has been said. Many times. when armors were getting changed. So, not that I don't agree, but, we already know this is a problem.

2) Move to suggestions?

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 22:15

Metagenic

@Aquajag

I am not suggesting armor changes yet; I am simply asking people why OOO deemed it fit to give every bomber armor elemental defense.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 01:56

Aquajag

The world may never know.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 05:32

#10

Chrizmaniac

The best defense is the best offense.

In my own opinion, the bomber's defense is derived from bomb explosions, rather than their armor:

- Knock-back from bombs. (Blast line)
- "Kiting" your enemies. (Vaporizer line)
- Vortex from bombs. (Vortex line)
- Mass disorientation of enemies. (Stagger Storm) (Voltaic Tempest) (Spine Line)
- Fast bomb drop rate. (Blast line) (Sun shards line)
- Bombers can damage enemies while staying away a fair distance. (Vaporizer line) (Sun shards line)

And of course:

- Footwork when dodging your enemy's attacks when charging your bomb.
- Knock-back from shields.
- Predetermining your enemy's attacks.
- Bombers have the option of supporting, rather than being on the front line.

The defense from bomb's offense is better achieved with a max CTR. I have always worn a mad bomber suit, and even with it's status weaknesses, it's high CTR per piece and the bonus of high dmg per piece enables me to hardly get hit by monsters when bombing correctly.

Happy bombing! >:]

~Chrizmaniac

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 06:08

#11

Artistbma

Take it from Chriz, he knows

Take it from Chriz, he knows what he's doing.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 06:31

#12

Bopp

doesn't answer question though

I find Chrizmaniac's post insightful, but it completely avoids the question. It basically says that armor doesn't matter. In that case, why not have piercing armor that doesn't matter, or shadow armor that doesn't matter, instead of elemental armor that doesn't matter?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 07:05

#13

Metagenic

@Chriz

I know skilled bombers can use Mad Bomber Set without much trouble but I'm asking why OOO did not even bother providing piercing/shadow armor for people who want alternatives. For example, skilled swordsmen usually go Skolver in FSC but OOO did provide Vog Cub for those who have less FSC experience.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 08:07

#14

Chrizmaniac

@Metagenic
Yeah I know, it sucks! D=
But I'm pretty happy with my bomber set. I think bombers would be OP if we had defenses like swordies or gunners.

@Bopp
Honestly, the only things that matter to me in my Mad Bomber suit is the high CTR, dmg bonus per piece, and the health. I don't really mind about the status weakness and the elemental/normal defense, because those hazards make me a MAD BOMBAR!!! (And I'm proud to be one) If we had shadow and piercing armor, that really would matter. Bombers would be absolutely OP, especially in lockdown.

@Artistbma
Thanks Art. I'm just offering my opinion, I'm not an expert. ;)

~Chrizmaniac

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 08:17

#15

Bopp

yeah, I know

Chrizmaniac, I know that Mad Bomber is nice; I use it myself when I play as a pure bomber.

Your thesis is that bomber armor defense doesn't matter much. You support your thesis with some arguments. Great. I don't entirely agree, but I largely agree, and you've formulated a reasonable argument.

But you continue to ignore the original poster's question: Why is bomber armor elemental?

In addition, in post #14, you go on to say that giving bombers more diverse defense would make them much more powerful. So now bomber armor defense does matter?

(I'm not really trying to fight with you. I'm just trying to keep this thread on-topic. :)

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 08:47

#16

Chrizmaniac

Why is bomber armor elemental? Bomber defence matters?

I'm going to go with your prediction in post #1 Bopp, when you try to explain the elemental-ness of bomber armor.

I believe the Swordie-Gunner-Bomber armor mix of Spiral Knights is fairly matched, with a bit of imbalance. Talking as a Mad Bomber,(who has little regard for whatever type of defense is on my gear) bomber armor defense somewhat matters to me, because defense is sacrificed for offense.

~Chrizmaniac

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:35

#17

Aquajag

The World May Never Know

I think Chrizmaniac proves my point: we may never know why there is only elemental defense. And one reason for that is, those of us who play with mad bomber all the time, don't seem to care a whole lot. Would other defenses be nice? sure! But would that probably mean they'd take away my awesome bonuses? Sadly, yes. And that I don't want!

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 22:32

#18

Trying

Did everyone overlook my post?
It's because the biggest threat to bombers were originally gun puppies and they all do elemental.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 23:47

#19

Coitara

@ Rangerwill

@ Rangerwill:
I'm under the impression that much of the forums these days are the same people looking for either keywords to catch their eye, or particular people that respond to key phrases and anyone else outside that loop (esp avatarless names) are overlooked most of the time.

esp since a large volume of responses tend to just be rants about how someone should have just done a search because something just like that was posted a year ago or something and hidden under a plethora of other topics that may/may not be related to the search at hand.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 00:54

#20

Kraanx

actually, oatmonster, there

actually, oatmonster, there be a few parts of quicksilvers on those energy pylons, ya derp.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 02:46

#21

Aquajag

@Rangerwill Your theory

@Rangerwill
Your theory doesn't explain why with all the armor updates, like the change to Volcanic and to Bombastic, which happened after Gun Puppy's were not the only threat, why those changes didn't shift it from Elemental. or why when the shadow lair armor was added, it was also the same boring defense as everything else. I mean obviously, SHADOW lair, why not make it shadow defense?

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 03:48

#22

Metagenic

I also have to point this out

For gunners, the Shadowsun set was altered from piercing to shadow and DMG med to DMG very high a while back, presumably in order to make them more effective fiend fighters.

I guess I should ask both: why bombers didn't have piercing/shadow defense and why they still don't have it.

Also, I have to disagree with "the world may never know". This is a video game world programmed by human beings, every design decision has a reason.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 05:26

#23

Fradow

Perhaps the reason is : 1)

Perhaps the reason is :
1) they didn't really think about it (because they have other things to do. Balance is only one thing in many, and not always the first thing, especially if they don't play as much as players on this section do)
2) they didn't have time to care about it (my guess goes on this one)
3) they are fine with it, for reasons Chriz outlined

And no Metagenic, not every design decision has a reason (at least not a good one). Often, it's just because it was easier, or that's the way it's done ....

Search

Bomber Defense: Can anyone answer this question…?