Spiral Knights - Hey, i think spiral knights needs a energy rework... not a qq by the way

Hey, i think spiral knights needs a energy rework... not a qq by the way

21 replies [Last post]

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 07:46

Dinosaurvista

Hey, ive been thinking about what to say in my post, and how to get my thoughts out in this block of text right here; however if i didnt do a good job at expressing my feelings dont remind me :P
I renember when energy prices were low and the playerbase was huge, spiral knights had a advert on kongregate (yes, i am a kongregate user!) and then that evolved into a in-site browser client with the kongregate chatbox which is pretty epic if you ask me, although i never use it; well anyways at that time spiral knights had a IMMENSE amount of players, everyone should renember leaving the trade channel off because the amount of traders at that time just removed your message in the normal chat in half a second, that was the good times, when haven actually had some people walking around and had adventuring parties and other players

however, the lack of reworks and events has made the recent energy prices just rise and rise constantly, it is now 7.somethingK and still rising, and makes new players have to spend loads of time into playing the game just to grind 100 energy, i thought in your trailer there was no grinding? The grinding gets worse even more, especially at tier 3/4 equipment, where you have to grind 7k AND then grind all the other stuff for your equips...really?
I dont want to keep talking about the cost of equips because that will just make me sound mad, but i have noticed that also many of my freinds have "quit" the game (aka. took a extended break :P), probably because that free players have to devote so much time to grind dat money for just 100 energy, this energy market is driving all the new players away imo, and spiral knights is becoming more and more of a P2P instead of a F2P and the early tiers are just more of a demo until where it takes months of grind to get equipment for a free player. The veterans are basically kicking all the newbies and pay-haters (i made up that word!) with the market system, and it wont be long until there are no more newbies playing to buy energy and the market system will be useless cause nobody will be buying energy, although i might be thinking a bit too far here but w/e... take a look at your competition such as League of Legends (LoL) it is fully F2P and using money is only optional and does not become a annoyance if you dont whip out your credit card after a while playing, it's playerbase is growing by the day. I think that there should really be a rework on energy, making it less of a interference with the game, i know i dont have to play this game and that many of you are having fun already and that "No dont nerf energy its me moneyz and i used real life moneyz!!" but i dont think these updates are really helping bring new people into the game, especially when half the game is locked because of the energy system, and yes i am all out energy right now :/ but this is not just a qq, i wanted to make a suggestion, and i was also dissapointed that the energy system wasnt reworked when i read the updates, but you know this isnt really a concern to me, its just fun to play and fight with the weps that i have, and its still a epic game anyway, but i just dont think im getting the most satisfaction a F2P player should get on a "F2P game"

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 08:11

Tersakaff

No.
It's fine as-is.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 08:28

Yvanblo

Agree

@Tersakaff: Grow up. If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything.

Yeah, I know what you mean, Dinosaurvista. Although I am not F2P, I'm not all that happy with how difficult it is for new players. It takes a very long time to earn 8000 crown. All the 5 star players just farm FSC, so they don't care about the new players. But T1 and T2 don't pay very well. There is NO WAY to become self sustaining without mastering the auction house, or farming RJP. If you are not to the RJP mission, "farming" the clockworks only pays ~500 cr per 10 me. 5000 cr per day. Yeah, it's fun, but only for so long.

@Tersakaff: Seriously, you don't have to post your opinion on every forum topic. There is no prize for posting on all the topics... instead, you could do some good by posting on topics that will help others. Help someone besides yourself, it's good for you.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 08:30

Dinosaurvista

well...

Well it is fine... for players willing to pay for the game, but i think maybe i should get a F2P player's opinion on it, not counting the ones that would just say OMG OM IT SUX REMOVE ENER-G, i think a civilized F2Per should maybe leave a opinion here, though the spiral knights forums is kinda laid back... :P though the point is that the game is turning alot into a P2P game and F2Pers are getting less of a enjoyable experience over time, and it has ruined my fun too sadly :(

edit: Ninja'd, i took so long to write i didnt see above poster.. sorry

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 08:31

Aidanblades

99999999+

I have to admit I'm pissed at the CE prices.They have gotten up to 8k (WTF!) and I'm still working on getting my T3 clearance.Like
Dinosuarvista said I've been grinding up cash.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 08:47

Tersakaff

@Yvanblo

Oh no! I am under the age limit because I disagreed! I am wounded fatally by your disagreement with my disagreement! I shall follow your orders and stop stating my opinion on a topic like everybody else, person who is stating their opinion on a topic! (lol seriously, hypocrisy and egoism level 100)

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 08:48

Aumir

Yes, +max

Maybe this game could use a "all-cosmetics p2p" system and leave the crafting part crowns only. Even if promos come, eventually people would get all promo items and CE price would rise again. And people do love accesories, so it would most likely work.

No one is to blame but the CE system itself, I am beginning to think this and it would be best to rework it most likely.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 09:01

Kraanx

''especially at tier 3/4

''especially at tier 3/4 equipment''
so it has begun.... tier 4 is open!!!!
lol, anyway, i think it would be a good help if we could see not only the highest offers in the CE market, but instead have a full list. that could bring the prices down easily, i believe

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 09:04

Asukalan

You know, stating in topic

You know, stating in topic that its not "qq" thread wont make it "non-qq" thread on instant.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 09:08

Dinosaurvista

@Kraanx

sorry i meant 3/4 star equipment not accessing the 4th group of levels in the clockworks :P lol, oh and also that suggestion wouldnt work, the usual button that you click to purchase energy shows the lowest offer avalible, so that would have no point...

@Tersakaff

I really dont want a flame war on this thread, i think first you should not reply to a person that just flamed at you because it will just make you feel worse, also i think what he meant (because he was very agressive) is that you should stop going around posting 1 liner replies and instead post your reasons why you actually think that?? but im not making Yvan the victim here, i think you both are to blame and should stop being so mad with your posts :P

Ok bye now, ill stop checking up on this thread, hope it goes well ;)

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 09:23

#10

Zephyrgon

It's fine as it is

It's the F2P playerbase that's the problem. If you want low CE prices, either buy it with real cash or get rid of all the F2P players.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 09:41

#11

Yvanblo

I stand corrected

@Dinosaurvista: Your right, dude, I should try to sound less aggressive. I just get tired of seeing so many forum goers sitting and waiting to rip someone up.

@Tersakaff: Growing up can have more to do with maturity than with actual age. What does my post have to do with my own self interest?
--egoism: An ethical theory that treats self-interest as the foundation of morality.

@Zephyrgon: Without F2P, who would play? We can't just get rid of all F2P... I think that would be bad.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 09:55

#12

Icanhazcookies

I think the biggest problem

I think the biggest problem is the lack of patience among many of the new players. Lots of them basicallly want autowin stuff within the first hour of gameplay.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 14:11

#13

Pdtopgun

I agree, for the most part

I've been playing this game since the Steam launch, and have apparently logged over 12 days' worth of in-game time at this point. (Sign you need a life #17...) Other than buying the OCH expansion, I've been completely F2P that whole time. However, with the way things are right now, I almost feel like I need to change that in order to continue playing through the game. (Hell, that's probably great news from OOO's perspective.) I think I've bought all of 100 CE off the market over the past month or so, because I simply can't justify paying the current prices. I know that probably sounds like the dreaded QQ'ing to some people, but it is what it is. I have several armor and weapon lines I'd love to upgrade to 4-star, but I've been completely stuck in that regard...all I've been doing is spending surplus crowds on the odd recipe or two, then letting them sit unused in the crafting menu.

I mean, with the way things are at this point, it's just about impossible to remain close to profitable without grinding one or two specific missions/level sets. I don't grind FSC myself, because the few times I've been down there, I've found it to be more tedious than anything else. (Want a challenge? Here, have 20 Slag Guards thrown at you! Killed them? Have 20 more Slag Guards!) And I'm not about to keep replaying the same two RJP levels over and over again, because honestly...that's not fun. I play this game because I enjoy the variety of the Clockworks, and I shouldn't have to stick to one or two small areas just to get anywhere. But even putting my preferences aside, at least I have the option to do those sorts of runs...if I'm someone who just hit T2, I'm pretty much screwed right now.

At least as a stopgap, I think the best solution at this point would be a pretty significant crown nerf to FSC, or at least the King of Ashes mission. Make it so that the hardcore grinders don't have this huge crown surplus flowing in, and more CE winds up on the Market. The game desperately needs a legitimate, continuous crown sink, but until we can get that, at least this would stabilize things a bit.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 15:14

#14

Pepperonius

@PDtopgun

Nerfing KoA would only slow the rise in CE, not stop it. It would not lower the price of CE any, and would only serve to piss off the farmers. They would simply move to the clockworks, the way we did in the past, as well. The reason CE is high is that people are not selling their accrued CE (which surprises me, considering the crown value at this point... I myself have sold over 40k CE and triple rolled a bunch of equips in the past couple weeks).

At this point, a promo needs to be released to reduce CE (I'm not calling for a promo, just saying that seems to be the only thing that would drive CE purchases at this juncture). Nothing short of that, or another form of crown sink will lower it.

I feel for the newer players, but it IS possible to continue to play, just not as easy as it once was.

Best of luck

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 19:32

#15

Generic-Bush

ITS HERO TIME!

i'd quit with dem personal attacks, inb4 Eury comes.....

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 21:47

#16

Qwao

...

For what is worth...

PTPs keep the game going. For what? The FTPs. WITHOUT PTPs there would be no CE. No CE = No FTPs would continue playing it for game value. If any, it'd more or less be for social purposes, chatting with guild and all that.

If anything, I'll say crafting costs ruin everything. As for clockworks, energy system is fine. Crafting wise? 800 for one 5*? Not even counting the 3 and 4* versions, it takes one energy pack (750) just to make a 5* gear from 4*, WITH MIST. That's the only thing that bothers me. Crafting high level gear.

Most people are losing drive to purchase CE. Without any proper not-accessory promos, I think soon it's just gonna hit 10k in 2 months. Maybe if they did something like that $3 explorer pack during winterfest again...

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 00:19

#17

Razor-Dash

I just want to be able to get

I just want to be able to get my gear to 5star rating. But with current crafting costs (800ce and 5k crowns) and CE prices (currently at 8'147cr per 100ce), that's something for the next year, I think. I'm a soloer for the most part, and farming FSC and Rapeaduke is profitable, provided of course I can reach that level and beat it, which with latency issues + 4star gear make it increasingly hard to clear. So far, only my guildmates were kind enough to help me with that.

Just lower the damn CE prices already. I can't get any further in the missions because I don't have the proper gear to get clearance in the Hall of Heroes.

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 02:37

#18

Mickmane

FTP here.

This is pretty much a repeat of what I keep saying in posts and in game...

Gifted OCH notwithstanding, I'm FTP on my end of the keyboard. I simply don't have money on internet.

A great big whooping "YAY YOU!" to all PTP. I couldn't play this without you. I think you deserve an overblown price now and then. (Sure, when I was new and the price rose from 6k to 6.5k I was going "/me rants at ce price", too. I think it's a noob illness - I wasn't even too sure where ce came from. :) )

I also know I have a point; buying your ce. If all FTP were chucked out, it would only leave PTP to buy each other's ce, which means either price sinks because no one's buying it with cr, or less income for OOO, or more likely a mix of both.

The system as it is is a nifty idea.

I know the current price is tough for some, but you get 100 mist in 22h. That's 10 free elevators, crowns and materials all yours. For free! You don't have to play 24/7. (Agreeing with the guy who mentioned patience.)

About me in game:

I came in with the flood from steam looking for coal and snowballs (end of December 2011).

I now have 5* shadow/elemental/piercing armor/shield/gun/sword/bomb (at least one of each). I still make new stuff (finally found BTS recipe!) in between blowing ce on silver keys (for the merry maid headbands ;) ). What else is there to do with my crowns? Oh, right, getting trolled by Punch. ("/rude" at Punch.) I do that too occasionally, now.

To be fair, I got cr and ce gifts from people (among other stuff), without ever asking for more than help with monsters. I still have no idea why. But that helped get some of the 4* gear.

I found friends who helped me with JK until I could go there alone (and now no longer want to after 3 times or so solo, seen it too often).

I found friends who dragged me (on previous, old, laggy computer) through FSC. By the time FSC mission came and had that higher pay out, I didn't even want to see it anymore, seen it too often. It's too long to always be the same. So I only rarely go there to get another few tokens to complete ancient set (for looks only).

I play for fun, don't want to grind or farm. That is too much like labour for me to be fun.

Twins are still fun. Mainly though, some friends and I do prestige, and clockwork or whatever mission takes our fancy. (May have been kind of the point of them.)

I sell materials on ah, and find niche markets. (And now also sell the lucky and not so lucky gains from lockboxes.)

Those 15 red shards for 15/500cr bid/buy, Very Long, that's mine (putting them on when that leaves me with at least 90 to 100 for whatever crafting fancy takes me.) I occasionally buy some too when I see them for <30 each. (That's just an example.)

Made my first self-earned 100kcr with tri-hearts on ah. Too bad they don't go all that well anymore. Tried one again and it came back unsold. Oh well...

On the bottom line. People may want to rush to get better gear, but when you have it, what do you do with your crowns? (Blow outs, yay! But maybe that's just me. :) )

Enjoy the climb.

Finally making Glacius was a lot more exciting than "look, I made 2 Fused Demo helms, one for looks for my third Party Blow-out and one for upgrading (done as soon as one was level 5)". And the upgraded one is made solely to have a reason to go to Shadowlair again. (Negative 'profit' there takes fun out for me too, so I need an excuse.)

Leave the system as it is.

(Btw, I have no idea what qq means.)

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 03:28

#19

Qwao

...

To qq means to whine.

qq-ing means whining.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 06:03

#20

Aureate

Processing Thoughts of You Always

QQ is an old geek term for ragequit.
Used to be that you could use alt-qq as a shortcut to quit an old multiplayer Warcraft game, hence the term.

...god I feel old now.

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 06:10

#21

Shoebox

The energy thing has been

The energy thing has been driving people away since the game came out to be honest.

I'd say at least half of everybody who has signed quit in the first hour because of it.
Probably even more than that.

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Hey, i think spiral knights needs a energy rework... not a qq by the way