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Curse themed Haze bomb

19 replies [Last post]
Tue, 06/12/2012 - 07:47
Shadow-Cyrus

I have had an idea floating around my head for a few weeks now. A haze bomb that can inflict curse status. What do you think about it?

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 07:52
#1
Draycos's picture
Draycos

It's been suggested before and in conclusion everyone decided it wouldn't work at all, or some believed it would need a ton of penalties.

In short... nope.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 07:59
#2
Zolota's picture
Zolota
hm

It is perhaps a bit too overpowered.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 08:08
#3
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
"Curse Vaporizer"

No.

The only way this could possibly be balanced is if it had an absolute maximum range of two at any star rank, has a chance to curse the user, and forces the user to walk as slow as the Graviton charge; that is giving it the best mechanics possible without even looking at the rate of curse.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 09:05
#4
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
With current new noob

With current new noob friendly feature "your charged weapon wont loose charge when you get attacked" it would be terribly overpowered.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 09:56
#5
Shidara's picture
Shidara
People seem to be forgetting...

Haze bombs typically only inflict minor status, and seeing as the only intensity of Curse as of now is strong, which I assume everyone is basing their conclusions from, I question if a minor Curse would even be useful enough to be considered a viable weapon.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 10:09
#6
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Degree of affliction

Yerp, but they also always have a good chance to inflict the status and almost always afflict to at least one target in the mist who has been standing in it for at least two seconds.

"Minor" for our statusesuses seems to only be about three seconds of being afflicted with the status. Three seconds of curse. That means it might make them hurt themselves from the status once or twice before it wears off.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 10:15
#7
Derpules's picture
Derpules
Still don't get the hostility to curse bombs.

Every time this comes up, a chorus of "UNBALANCEABLE", "IMBA", etc. greets it. When it's pointed out that this could be a weaker version the response is that it would then be too weak. Excuse me?

There is a duration, and strength, at which a curse bomb would be imba.

There is a different duration, and strength, at which a curse bomb would be useless.

Somewhere between the two lies a usable curse bomb.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 11:13
#8
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Hurr

No one has been able/willing to find that "perfect" mechanic for it.

Not even I would be able to do so. I would be willing to attempt it, but every attempt would either be overpowered or useless.

I know you mean imbalance, but IMBA has another connotation.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 21:38
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Lol... explain exactly why finding "that perfect mechanic" would be so hard.. I mean, if the devs wanted to, they could have this thing made and ready for testing within a few hours.. balancing it wouldn't be bad at all, just upload a few variations that feel right to you to the test server, and let people try them out.

Do a few basic tests as well- obviously, the strategy would be similar to that of Stagger Storm/Venom Veilor as the duration would have to be very short- constantly keep things under the status, while dodging blows... but you'd be doing damage rather than making it harder for them to get to you... so more like venom veilor+ash of agni tactics. get them in the haze, and make them attack. Deal damage. Very high risk, very high reward. So what you'd be looking for, is a duration of time that made it to where you can just barely keep them all cursed if their in the radius. I'd also make the fuse time a bit longer than that of the other haze bombs, so as to raise the risks properly.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 21:52
#10
Kive's picture
Kive
overpowered

overpowered

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 22:48
#11
Derpules's picture
Derpules
@Luiguru

You crack me up. *You* haven't found a way to balance it? Well, duh--you don't balance an item by thinking about it really hard and quarrelling over numbers. You balance it through testing. You wouldn't have been able to balance any of the existing haze bombs just by thinking about them, either.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 23:10
#12
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Yerp

Bring forth values of all degrees and durations of statuses(usesusesuses) and the means to test in a hands-on program as though I were actually using the weapon. And a cake. To headbutt.

My process is not think-until-I-soil-myself; in fact, most of my thought process is derived from my learning style: logic/mathematic. The world is a giant puzzle of some sort. Sometimes it comes to me in minutes, other times I have to eat a sandwich to get gears turning; other times I roll around in mud until it comes to me. That last one rarely works because mud is distracting. When pure math is all it needs I break down on numbers, but other than that there are a few outgrowths on the way down the chasm.

You spelled my name wrong. Derpulus.

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 23:45
#13
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Luigi... I have no idea what you wrote.

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 01:31
#14
Tuhui's picture
Tuhui
Lol no order at all...

Would it be really that unbalanced? It would be minor so how much damage would it really do? It would only last around 2 attack for most enemies. Would it do more damage than the fire bomb that is out right now? Have it be shadow to break the monotony of elemental haze bombs. I think it would be a great support bomb in a group of 4. Obviously it would need some balancing but it this really that unreasonable? Even if an enemy is constantly cursed it ony can attack so often. Might make devilites a little bit easier which some people will like. In LD it might be a little bit unbalanced but i think only one weapon would be cursed. Given what we have already i don't think it would be pushing it at all.

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 02:24
#15
Tsubasa-No-Me's picture
Tsubasa-No-Me
Luguiru

I love you man.

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 07:25
#16
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Honk

Sometimes, neither do I.

Which is why they keep me in this box.

The reason this would be difficult to balance is to find that middle ground between the duration completely dominating all other Vaporizer bombs or not lasting long enough for anything to happen. If we knew what the exact values were for duration and affliction probability this would be somewhat easier, but without those values all we can do is shoot hoops while blind folded. And we have no idea what direction the backboard is. Or if we are even in the court. In space.

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 07:58
#17
Draycos's picture
Draycos

No one likes meeeeee. :C

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 08:03
#18
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Snort

We can share some drinks.

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 10:54
#19
Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
meh

Part of the issue when it comes to balancing curse stems from the fact that different enemies are affected differently by the status. Some enemies attack faster than others and subsequently take more damage from curse. Lumbers are unaffected by curse even when they attack.

I'm gonna leave this here and back away slowly...

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