I just want to know which one.
A: Missions
B: Higher Crafting Prices
C: Accessories
D: May 17 Update
I just want to know which one.
A: Missions
B: Higher Crafting Prices
C: Accessories
D: May 17 Update
by may 17 update i meant OCH, don't worry
Iron Lockboxes and Silver Keys, which brought Shadow Keys, which then brought Crimson Hammer and also initially brought the Accessory craze (which by itself, customization isn't bad) making OOO center much more on "getting revenue to keep the game going" than trying to stabilize/change the flawed CE economy system.
So my vote would go to "Accesories" with the options you give, but it is actually "Lockboxes" (Iron, then Mirrored) what I am targeting at.
Before you complain about accessories... Accessories can be purchased via featured auctions (in return for tons of crowns), obtained by purchasing more CE than you need, or resold on the auction house. All three create incentives for someone to sell large quantities of energy. That's good for new players, and good for the free-to-play economy. If anything, we need more temporary accessories and crown sinks.
People like to complain a lot, but they have to log on to the site to do so. There may be quirks that need to be fixed, but the game isn't ruined by any means.
If that was directed to me, I am NOT against Featured Auctions or Accesories, and as I said, I blame Lockboxes, which started the "snowball" that has us now with an inflated economy, poor content updates and a dependence of CE buy income (AND previously ONLY real money for Crimson Hammer, which still hasn't the announced CE exchange for non-Steam users) from OOO part to keep the game alive.
And your more temporary accesories idea is really good and what we need, more so, a system for vanity items like other games where they are only timed would be ideal, but then Accessories should have to be easy to be able to buy (and not in random boxes) and in high quantities.
We could also blame our situation to not a patch, but the Doctor Who game.
The addition of the missions that take you directly to bosses, and can be repeated. It made the Arcade empty. If OOO made them non-repeatable, I would forgive and forget.
I don't mind accessories. You can easily ignore them and they are just giving people something to spend crowns on.
@the "CE promos means they're only focusing on money" idea:
Some people are compulsive buyers and spend money because there's somewhere to be spent. You know, those people who would buy something expensive in a facebook game just because it's expensive and they can afford it.
This is not likely to be true for the majority of players. For everyone else, content has to have VALUE to players in order for it to make money. This can be in saving time (the original deal - buy energy, progress faster! Can't play? Buy a heat amplifier!), content that people WANT to play (ex: OCH) or ways that people want to express themselves (accessories). Even now, people won't buy into something like a CE promo unless they're really desperate for energy or there's something good (of value) in it for them.
If people's values differ from the values the devs assign, then you end up with a less popular feature or a monetary failure. See: Shadow lairs. They're challenging and have really FUN CONTENT and level design - just what everyone's been asking for . . . but it's way too expensive for the value that people put into them. So you only have a handful of 'elite' players that will actually run them on more than a one-time basis.
To make money, they have to offer things that (potential) paying players actually want to buy. People don't pay money for something they don't want unless they NEED to.
Since this is a game, there's no 'need', so they have to focus on making things that people actually WANT to spend money on if they want profits.
This means they have to make players happy.
You want them to balance the CE economy? They'll have to make a promo that people value enough to make them really want to spend money, and from that, those players will sell their CE for crowns and push the CE prices down.
-----------
anyway, that rant aside,
I'd vote for Missions, actually. I think it's kind of cool and adds a bunch of polish to the game. But...
We lost the focus on the random stages, the gate manipulation, the joining of random parties in the middle of runs, danger rooms. On one hand, it's more convenient to have missions so you can go straight to the stages anyway. On the other hand, it removes the cooperation and player interaction, affecting gates in order to make the path to the boss stages more enjoyable (LOL remember having fiend before vana? Flame souls went up in price!), to make a gate full of Deconstruction zones because you think they're fun. I remember guilds used to affect the gates as they wanted. I don't even need to bring up Project uJelly.
Missions became the focus for both players and developers. Make predictions for the next content patches: What's more likely? Newer missions with static layouts, or brand new clockwork pieces/layouts?
People will flock to whatever mission brings the most money because that's what they value. It makes it so they can play as much as they want, make the gear they want.
Right now, Vanaduke is the cash cow mission.
In the future, it'll be whatever t3 boss mission they eventually come up with, because it'll probably bring the values of "fresh new content" AND "more profit".
Because you don't have to run through clockworks to get to those stages, there's a lot of content that people will see "once and never again".
Accesories didnt ruin the game what so ever imo. It just gave people more items to aim for. Mission systems has both pro's and con's to it but overall it didnt ruin the game.
Shadow Lairs was probably the worst patch ever. OCH basically created a wall between F2P and P2Pers. Everything else OOO did wrong (And they've done A LOT wrong) all add up together and contribute to the ruining itself.
And im pretty sure as long OOO are refusing to install an asian server, not many if any at all new asian players will come into the game. Even I have almost had enough of lag in his game.
Setting up servers, especially across the world, isn't exactly easy... Let alone cheap. I wouldn't say they are refusing to install asian servers... more like they don't have the money and it isn't a high priority (I think they are focusing on new content more than new severs).
Obviously the May 17th update.
Most of you guys don't know what it is since it was before steam release.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Release_Notes_2011-05-17
Oh yeah, thought it might've been from 2011.
Weren't the higher crafting costs part of the May 17th update?
I would have to say Shadow Lairs were the worst in my opinion. The content itself is good, but the cost makes them completely worthless, especially for gunners that still don't have an SL set. I'm still hoping for some kind of Shadow Lair pass, shadow keys to be craftable with materials, or a major price reduction.
There is no question the worst patch ever was item binding! Which also went in hand with higher crafting prices. We had to suffer for 4/5 months of not being able to sell any 5 star items and effectively killed the crafting business. The cost also went up across the board to make any item in the game. Lots of people left the game after this patch. Thank god auction house was part of it soften the blow at least.
Taking a turn for the less serious side here...
Clearly you're all forgetting the update that was the worst!
The update which changed the Spur's attack pattern?
I mean, come on!
That is the most important one!
On a more serious note...
I'd have to say accessories. It seems they're used as a major scapegoat in this game, and often mislead players to get a neat looking (yet utterly useless) pretty as opposed to a useful weapon.
and the pepperbox charge^
lack of actual content since roarmulus and snarby (shadow lairs and crimson hammer)
may 17, 2011
punch UV's
crafting heart pendants
new player accsessories
aaaaaaand.... this lockdown bug
If you guys din't know already when spiral knights was first released this was the crafting prices
1* - 10 Ce ( same as now)
2* - 50ce ( also same as now)
3*- 100ce
4*- 200ce
5*- 400ce
to me that was the change to ruined the game and made it essentially a P2P game.
This game was never ruined.
In fact, it's better than ever, while OOO may have made some questionable decisions, I don't see any reasons to be unhappy.
The item binding was needed, before the change it was possible to earn money faster than actually buying ce and new players were able to acquire 5* gear ridiculously fast.
The only thing they could have done better with the item binding update is give everyone a few days warning.
Sure there is the current LD bug, but they have already acknowledged it and are coming with a fix.
Honestly, the changes made then is what saved the game for the long-run, albeit relatively recent changes have snowballed into another decline. You could simply trade for most everything in under a week and never look back on the items/game again. Those changes were made just early enough to not screw over the entire playerbase at the time, and for the model of the game experience.
As for my thoughts on the thread question, these are my observations:
A start is the Supply Depot/Hall of Heroes. Together, along with how the game environment was working, they simplified and limited much too much; the trade economy went into a bit of a rut. Then in tandem with the accessibility and highly comparable rewards of our new Missions, so did the currency economy, as well as the Arcade basically losing the entirety of its appeal.
Missions are static and seperate, yet have gained a lot more importance; so much for an always-changing adventure.
In general. I hate the marketplace. It costs 8000 crowns to get 100 CE, explain to me again, how this game is F2P when the amount of money you earn with 100 ME isn't nearly enough to get 100 CE?
Energy prices aside, I think crafting (energy again) is way too steep.
/yes!!!
Sometimes, even whole FSC run isnt enough for a 100ce. this has gotten too far. if OOO cant do anything about the narket, then raise the overall cr outcome!!!!
"Sometimes, even whole FSC run isnt enough for a 100ce"
Seriously... you onyl spend 50 for whole fsc so....
This was bound to happen. Those patches only speed up the process.
yes, buts its becoming a problem... okay you only spend 50mist/ce but, you have to do it two times. two times the time. good for you, if you play this night and day, but I actually irl stuff things I have to do.
The problem isn't 50/100, is what you do with that quantity. Even if before mission mode people warped to FSC via guild, the average user had to complete the tier 3 gate and spend 90 mist, but those levels tended to be short (most of the times due to guild manipulation Devilish Drudgery or Concrete Jungle) and got to Basil in less than 10-20 minutes and starting the "true" run, FSC. Nowadays, in fact, an average user will spend 40/70/80 mist, not 100:
- Daily mission (20) plus FSC (50)
- Daily mission (20) plus RJP & IMF (30+30) sometimes just one of them - the 40 mist example.
- Daily mission (20) plus crafting 2* item (50)
People just want more for their CE, that is all... this userbase, and more with the current situation, won't grind two times a day the same dungeon - the only one "worth it" due to drastically different income. Hardcore grinders etc excluded, which I tended to do back then, and had to "bandage" the grind pain with going with different weapons or inviting guild members... so I can understand why people don't want to grind, it isn't "enjoyable".
Though most likely the mist cost will round up when Danger Missions come, most likely.
My answer:
People who don't understand how the CE market works, and whine instead of work. Really, I can get the average payouts per 100CE for each boss strata, and prove that you can still profit with CE at 8k.
"People who don't understand how the CE market works, and whine instead of work."
I thought you played a game, but now I see we work in a game. For the people who buy CE?
"Really, I can get the average payouts per 100CE for each boss strata, and prove that you can still profit with CE at 8k."
As said before, not many people do two FSCs. Has the market to cater to grinders? If so, push the CE price to 15000 already.
But this just shows how flawed the CE/mist system is, to begin with.
Game isn't "ruined" nor ruined so what's the poll really about?
Lmao, three rings system with energy is great its player controlled, if you can't make 100 ce a day well I guess it will take you two to three days at the end of the day if your not putting in money to the game you can't expect to reach 5* gear sets as fast as a p2p. This game is not ruined at all, the only thing that is an issue in this game is the bickering by a small % of the playerbase.
From what I recall, crafting costs were like this before that patch:
★☆☆☆☆: 10 E
★★☆☆☆: 50 E
★★★☆☆: 100 E
★★★★☆: 200 E
★★★★★: 300 E
Pretty sure that's how it was, but I'm going to go look for a reference anyway. If I am incorrect, feel free to correct me with provided evidence.
Edit:
I knew my memory couldn't be trusted. Well, all I could really find was a 2* item going for 50 E, so I went ahead and assumed 1* went for 10 E as well, and 3* 100 E. (I pretty much copied your list, hah...) I did find a 4* going at 200 E so that's correct, though I'm convinced 5* was 300 E, because I remember discussing this with a friend, stating it was nearly tripled, and from 400 E it would only be doubled.
2.0:
Paweu nailed it.
Recipe Price:
★☆☆☆☆: 250 crowns
★★☆☆☆: 1,000 crowns
★★★☆☆: 5,500 crowns
★★★★☆: 15,000 crowns
★★★★★: 45,000 crowns
Alchemy Cost:
★☆☆☆☆: 200 crowns/ 10 energy
★★☆☆☆: 400 crowns/ 50 energy
★★★☆☆: 1000 crowns / 100 energy
★★★★☆: 2,500 crowns/ 200 energy
★★★★★: 5,000 crowns/ 300 energy
That's how it was
I am the only one regretting the patch which removed wolvers and zombies as a threat by forcing them to attack in a straight line ?
The may 17th patch was before I start playing, so I have no idea about this one, but the AI nerf is clearly the worst for me. Removed a lot of challenge.
Also, Shadow Lair. It's a shame. Great content you just can't play much because of prohibitive cost.
Are you kidding me? a Item binding far away killed this game. Increase craft costs
Warning: wall of text. I didn't think the post would get this long, but it turns out there's a lot to complain about.
I left the game mid last year a while after the May 17th update, and I'll just briefly restate why that's bad: it places an unacceptably large real money price on gear which you need for T3. If we assume that you use as much mist as possible for each crafting stage, you need 1100 CE to make most 5* items, 1000 CE for items with a 3* base like the sealed sword and 700 CE for the crest of almire and maybe some others, but they're very rare. Now let's assume that all CE was bought in the US and thus doesn't have VAT, and at the best rate of $50 for 20kce. That's $2.75, $2.50 or $1.75. That's an unavoidable cost (well technically you could run vana in your 2* gear until you have enough boss tokens to buy a set with them but let's be realistic) and before you say some nonsense about the CE market, all sunk CE represents real money even if it wasn't yours. The effect of this is that the community which already specialised in royal jelly and vanaduke runs further specialises because crafting 5* equipment for anything else (such as fighting fiends) is too expensive. Personally I was ready to begin crafting various 5*s just to play around with them before May 17 rolled around.
Now I've come back to the game for a little while to see what it's like and... hmm. Well, this isn't the first thing I noticed, but a lot of enemies have been ridiculously nerfed. Scorchers used to fire curved fire like red rovers, didn't they? Phantoms had gran fausts and I think they were more aggressive, menders were more revive happy, wolvers would change direction (they were still among the easiest enemies), oilers were extremely threatening because they were FAST, quivksilvers moved more quickly and for longer I think when charged... the list goes on I'm sure. Some of the new content seems tricky to me (candlestick keep in particular) but why has all the old (T3, I can't judge T1 and T2) content been dumbed down so much? Has all the real challenge moved to the shadow lairs, which are prohibitively expensive to run (what else needs to be said about them? The cost of a single shadow key is ridiculous.)
And, well, missions. That's what I first noticed on coming back of course and my first thought was that it was an interesting way to play the game, I appreciated that they were bite sized sessions rather than the long runs with escalating rewards (I'm sure most of you know how annoying it is to have to leave a run for real life reasons), but... as I proceeded through the missions I noticed something. There was never an open party and only once did someone join me (on the roarmulus twins mission, and the player was so terrible that he entered with less than 20 energy, died quickly on the first level and revived himself with energy in under a second so I had no chance to revive him, then died again straight after and returned to haven just as quickly). The reason for this should be obvious and should have been obvious before implementation: the content (and thus the player base) is spread too thinly.
How many ranked clockwork missions are there? 30? More? There were 4 open gates in the original design for a sound reason: so that finding or making a party is usually easy. Now that it's 4 gates plus many times as many missions and pvp arenas, is it any surprise that unless you have friends or guild members to run with (and how did you find them in the first place? Random parties) the game is solo instead of co-op. It was bad enough that solo play was encouraged by the drop system but now it's almost impossible not to solo. Why am I playing a multiplayer game if I can't find any other players? The daily missions might have helped with this except you can only do each once per day, so you're unlikely to get a party in them either.
Almost as bad, the ranked missions don't even seem to have any real purpose other than a stricter ladder of challenges and rewards. They're certainly not teaching players the game, as shown by the one player I mentioned.
Oh and there's crimson hammer I guess... what the hell? You get revenue for fresh content regardless in the form of more people coming back and continuing to play. And again this is a multiplayer game, what sense does it make to wall off content from a large part of the player base?
It's really disappointing to see the failures in game design have continued to degrade a game with such good core gameplay, and even that has got worse because of enemy AI nerfs.
what i see that ruined the game its that new updates focuses to new players leaving behind old players boring to dead. but oh well lets hope the new "big content" on the way will be more "fun" than the "big surprise" of the anniversay. since they said theyre working for something for old players. the only thing we can do now it just to wait to "see" that big thing theyre working.
The biggest thing that is hurting the game is lack of new 'high level' content. 6 months ago their should of been a T4 Arcade with about 10 new levels that was hard as hell with some great token rewards. Their is no point in grinding the CE market as unless you love costumes or uvs their's little end content to spend your $ on.
Is the game perfect? No. Is anything perfect? No. People who only seem to care about everything that's wrong with the game, that's what's ruining the game. For me at least.
Missions are the most destructive of the stuff you've listed, but I'd say that the general fixing of broken aspects that always went too far, lack of new content, and overall crumminess of the SL boss fights (seriously? you just throw a seed in there to take out one player and declare it hardcore >_<).
Increased crafting prices are just a change in economic mechanics. Patient players can still easily beat the economy, though it's less possible to just buy everything in the game.
DLC will eventually become free to me, I have faith in this. Eventually. Eventually...
Accessories? Lawl. That's just an increase in CE prices, stop whining.
Missions, however, took a lot of the fun of the clockworks away, though. Or at least that's what I've found.
Honestly? None.
There's no patch that ruined anything, only the lack of new content.
Just stop whining for once.
CE ruined SK little bit
Edit: so did the frame bugs, i liked that at LD >.>
Elevator Passes.
P.S. I know it was a poll but unlimited adventuring did mess this game up, financially anyways.
Crowns didn't get nerfed, market is more expensive because there are more F2P players.
Also, E: Item Binding
F: Accessories
G: Heart Pendants, I guess.
H: Operation Crimson Hammer
You need to go way further back in this poll.
There was also no update on May 17th, but it was free elevator weekend. Can't see how that would "ruin" SK for anyone. The closest update to may 17th was the May 16th, but that was just IMF balancing, FSC tweaks, and some bug fixes.