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Danger Mission Arena: Monster waves spawn on a timer, not the previous wave being defeated!

8 replies [Last post]
Tue, 06/19/2012 - 19:22
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake

The title is just to explain the main part of my idea in a sentence.

So umm Arenas are always fun + give good loot + challenging usually, so a danger mission arena would be sweet.

But what I think would make it special, is that waves of monsters do not show up based on the previous wave being defeated. Currently, you notice that waves of monsters in rooms will begin once the last monster of the previous wave is killed.

This makes it so that it is all on a timer. Here is my example:

Wave 1 will begin 3 seconds after your party steps on the button.

Wave 2 will begin in 20 seconds after wave 1 starts.

Wave 3 will begin in 35 seconds after wave 2 starts.

Wave 4 will begin in 40 seconds after wave 3 starts.

Wave 5 will begin in 40 seconds after wave 4 starts.

Wave 6 will begin in 50 seconds after wave 5 starts.

NOTE: The times are not exact / what should be implemented with this idea, only examples.

The timer will be displayed at the top of the screen.

If you defeat all monsters active before the timer runs out for the next wave, you are rewarded! You get a 5 second time frame that lets you safely revive party members or lay down mist bomb clouds or whatever to prepare for the next wave. After those 5 seconds, regardless of how much time on the timer was left, the next wave will force spawn. If there was only one second left on the timer before you cleared all active monsters, then you will still get the 5 second free time for preparation regardless. Consider it a reward for making time.

Why do this?

Well, this will make it so that you want to have a good balance between high damage and high survivability.

If you have high damage but weak survivability and spend too much time on the floor doing your party no good, eventually your party will be missing out on some necessary damage output and your party gets swamped by 3 waves.

If you have high survivability but weak damage, you will be prancing around not killing things fast enough and then eventually overwhelmed by 3 waves.

So this will demand a more complex loadout from players: both damage AND survivability, a good amount of both. Do note that with the gun and bomb buff, both are fine with damage output. This will not demand that you have a full group of swordsman spamming brandish charges. Absolutely not, and it won't be designed like that.

This arena danger mission content must be freeze themed. This way, you can't spam shiver and gives a few weak points to some weapons that have too many strong points.

I would definately prefer if this danger mission is, yet again, shadow damage themed. I would like it to be howlitzers + greavers + devilites so we can have some rage threads about those like the good old days.

There should be lots of howlitzers on respawning plates as well.

This idea can also lead to some fun achievements. Such as defeating every wave before any time runs out. Or not defeating any wave until ALL waves spawn xD.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 00:37
#1
Geregias's picture
Geregias
timed waves, yeah ok

so i see where ur coming from on this, and timed waves would be interesting,

the final parts about only being certain types is just your preference, timed waves in a danger room would be cool but it must be applicable to most status types if not so much monster types - current danger rooms are always the same sort monster so you know what you'll be up against after a couple of runs

I'm sure i havent seen all the danger rooms but i have never come across a fiend/undead themed room so that could be interesting, if rather difficult if it appears in slime themed T3

the only aspect that seems defunct is the 5 seconds grace for finishing early - rewards yes - more time without stuff to hit no

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 01:32
#2
Evilnut's picture
Evilnut
The timed wave ideas is

The timed wave ideas was implemented once... unintentionally.

See how "great" it turned out to be...
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/51999

The maximum size of the waves added together and the size of the room must be extremely carefully balanced... because there's a limit to how many enemies you can kite in a room of a certain size, and that's already ignoring enemies spawning all over the place giving you little to no place to run.

If not balanced extremely well, you will just have a single option left: kill them as fast as possible, or the nightmare above will be the result. List of suitable weapons would be rather small too, instead of allowing users to use whatever they want to fit their strategies.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 16:44
#3
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
Note that there is a

Note that there is a different between Danger Mission and danger room.

For example, danger mission = the Legion of Almire thing they are working on.

@Evilnut, that was a bug. Also, that was with respawning plates. Completely different. They like transformed and then never stopped spawning.

Second, your group would have to TRY to get swamped by multiple waves. It isn't like it is intended to overwhelm you by the number of monsters.

It is just that you probably don't want to carry someone because they won't have the damage output that is desirable to kill a wave before the next one spawns.

The goal is killing a wave before the next one spawns. You are right, it would have to be balanced.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 16:45
#4
Juances's picture
Juances
~

But wasnt that the point? punish players for being too slow....

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 16:55
#5
Addisond's picture
Addisond
--

Assuming it is still possible to win after all waves have spawned, this is perfectly fine. If it's not, you're taking away an aspect of the game that allows players to beat any level with any gear, hence allowing you to become "stuck". Though there's actually a place where this is not true (IMF, where synced RT twin lasers beat up shields of low starrage), this needs to be preserved as much as possible. In addition, adding so many spawns that players could become stuck simply by being at the wrong place at time of spawn would be flawed, too. Seeing as this requires damage over time to stall skyrocketing difficulty, I'd not support it. SK is currently open to all playstyles, no matter how reserved or aggressive, and I like it that way.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 17:02
#6
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
Yeah, exactly. It'll still

Yeah, exactly. It'll still be challenging, not ez mode.
________________________________

New idea based off of that bug:

Respawning Plate that never stop respawning. Of course, these will be balanced and not unintentional and less ridiculous.

The point of these, is that you cannot ignore the monsters that come out of these. Obviously, it isn't going to like spawn them once every second. It'll spawn them, say, once every 10 seconds. This way, you have to use to tactics and such and assign certain party members to take out the respawning devilites from the plates.

I suggest the monsters that come out of foreverespawning plates to be devilites. This way, they can throw projectiles and such while frozen. So shiver =/= win.

And to finish this off, they would need to nerf the whole "you can just sit there and hold your shield up and it cannot respawn" thing. They should make it so that if you sit there with your shield up and block something that spawns from the plate, it will deal a large amount of damage to you and pierce through your shield. Think: Grimalkins eating past your shield regardless of it being up.

Keep in mind that monsters that are standing on top of respawning plates don't force the respawn to not happen. The respawning monster will simply spawn to the left / not on top of the plate.

And if you ignore these respawning plates, like if you don't kill the waves fast enough, then you will get swamped by monsters.

Keep in mind how normal, killable-with-loot-dropped monsters spawn. If a monster or a player is sitting on where the monster is intended to spawn, it will just spawn a bit off to the right or left or such where there is room.

_______________________________________

Also, keep in mind the difference between respawning waves and respawning plates.

Waves are those monsters that drop loot and spawn in those big groups.

Plates are those things that will respawn monsters constantly.

______________________________________

Then finally, what other playstyle is there besides dealing damage? Just status bombing, and that can be great for laying down clouds of fire / shock. It just makes it so that you cannot spam shiver and win.

Most playstyles in SK are meant to deal damage of sorts. They buffed gun and bomb damage, and as I said this will be balanced: Not centered around brandish charge spammers.

Playstyles meant to control monsters, such as spamming shiver, will still be viable as this will be balanced. It is just that you will not feel like having a shiverer is mandatory.

All this does is make it so that you cannot just stack on survivability and expect to prance around forever, or stack on damage and not have nearly enough survivability and lay face down on the floor being a waste of space and DPS.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 17:09
#7
Juances's picture
Juances
~

Stop asking for more devilites everywhere. The idea is good, dont make me hate it.

Kats also have projectiles.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 20:45
#8
Addisond's picture
Addisond
That is exactly what I meant

You should be able to stack on survivability forever. That is a playstyle.

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