Well, if it isn't little miss tank n smash! TSSUDDAAA GIRL! The great, the Tsubasa-No-Me, the future savior of FSC PUGs!
What Kitty thinks:
Actually, what there needs to be is more situations that normal weapons need to be used for. An example is that mask phase in the Lord Vanaduke fight from FSC. Normal weapons do the most damage on it. So, rather than buffing normal weapons, what we would need is monsters that resist everything BUT normal damage(normal weapons). Something like that /shrug
I support this thread! I want my Pepperbox and Triglav to have moar damage :P
I hope OOO implements this Tsu cause you worked hard on it!
Good luck!
im going to have to beg to differ on this one i do pretty low damage and have my health going down really fast from monster hits i think that they should make it so blocking is instantly triggered instead of waiting to get the shield ready to go
Why balance weapons?
When you can change sun shards for no real reason :]?
And @above poster: Learn to use your shield, and to not get hit so often. Yes, if you stand still and let mobs kill you, you will die. Go figure.... but I don't think we should rebalance the game around you taking too many hits when so many others have easily mastered the game without an auto-shield function.
Adding Lots of random monsters would be interesting... they'd still be crap against all of the pre-existing monsters... Making them sub-par on 6/8 and good against 2/8
EDIT: It's been attempted before... I don't think anything came of it...
I disagree with most things you've said there.
We're knights, we're the heroes, we're not mobs.
And yes they plan on balancing things soon, but for the best of everybody, not yours. What you're suggesting is basically making the game harder and longer, and I'm sick of people saying "bawww the game is 2 esy make it harder hueahueahuea im so pro"
Oh yeah, suggestions forum.
And the protagonist (us) usually has a harder time than the antagonist (mobs) in a proper story. As it stands now, we can just blast our way through everything because it's "Hurrdurr" levels of easy. Shadow Lairs are a challenge, but those come at a premium price for gear that really is only aesthetically pleasing. Then you have Legion of Almire which is FINALLY a challenge that doesn't come with the price.
Oh yeah. Normal damage weapons do need to be balanced. They would probably be viable if knights could only carry one weapon on them at all times, no matter what.
I think....
Balance Weps as the above stated, I want to be able to go into the clockworks up against, hmm Beasts? and say to my self
No Pierce weapon? no problem I gots me a nifty normal damage wep!
Normal damage weps should be viable but I also like being able to match up stat differences, plus OOO needs to make moneyz somehow...
Make the game harder :) I like tougher games :p
I read this thread all the way through and my eyes are not able to see any longer, (I'm just a good typer...)
I like cake! and it's not a lie!
don't be a lie...don't be a lie.
Jeez. Have you and the Spiral Knights community already thought of every good idea? I give up! :P
There are a few things I have been intentionally ignoring so someone else will try it.
No hints.
This needs a little boost... Do we have an answer? OOO?
Will it come in text, or in update format?
Still wondering over here... :\
I agree with most of what im reading but i think poison is fine. In PvP it reduces players damage by 1-3 and doesnt allow them to heal which is a pretty big deal. In PvE it reduces damage by, i think 45%, makes you hit them harder, and doesnt allow them to heal. I see no reason to buff poison, its balanced as is.
@ Ters - He is in no way implying that this game should be harder, reread the post before making such assumptions. I cant stand when people dont read the posts. Most of the OPs post is accurate in what is causing imbalances in the game.
I'll be brief.
I enjoyed the balancing suggestions, but damage output does not define what weapon I use. I -like- triglav, omega shell, iron slug. Up to a certain point, damage doesn't matter to me.
Perhaps I'm being a bit simple, but I could take or leave any attempt to balance the game and its variety of weapons. Sometimes style just wins out.
In light of the incoming monsters, this seerusly needs addressing.
So, OOO. ARE there plans on rebalancing any of the equipment? Especially on your new "glass" cannon?
Why do people keep rezzing old thread... Geezus people have a lot of time on their hand...
Back on topic
Just a suggestion since we are off-topid but on-topic of this old Thread... (June 2012... lol)
What about having difficulty settings? Hard and Normal... Normal with nerfed mob and Hard mode with pre-nerfed AND buffed monster (overall monster with more HP, like not killing a Trojan with a full charge DMG max blitz ^ ^)
Yes it would require a lot of work but I think it would be worth it. Then people would go "but I play on Hard mode, I should get more heat or more cr!!!" No you don't, you play on a harder difficulty because you want the game to be challenging. Personally I wouldn't want any advantage by playing Hard mode vs someone who's not, but that's just me...
Balancing takes time and make a group of people angry towards another because they feel they got the advantage and some balancing something ruins a certain aspect of the game...
Also... I just learned Zeddy is a balance maniac ^ ^
Can we not have something important like this get buried again?
It's generally accepted that a LOT of the equipment needs adjustment. Far too much of it goes unused since, as stated in another thread, firepower is fast becoming the most important factor inmost knight's equipment choices. Are the underused and honestly underpowered weapons like the Iron Slug going to be adjusted in the coming update? Is the Chaos set going to stop being the single most powerful armor in the game? Are the Shard Bombs going to finally be fixed so they're more on par with the other bombs?
Then there's the monsters. The entire Beast family needs a buff to their intelligence or tracking. Just because Wolvers can dance around quickly or pop up out of the ground doesn't make them hard. They spend so much time dodging and barking at nothing that they barely attack in the first place. And when they finally do decide to bite you, they can't track on their attack and are easily dodged.
The Chromas aren't much better off, being a bit slow movement wise, but at least they can be a bit of a challenge should the elemental versions get a few spitballs out. The normal Chromalisk on the other hand doesn't have those range options or a blob on the floor that still causes statuses. All it has is its rather short and useless tongue that, like the Wolvers, can't track their enemy should they begin to attack.
And don't make the excuse of "the dustbuns are probably going to be Beast, so there's your buff." That doesn't solve the problem of Wolvers and Chromas being nothing more than walking treasure boxes, as another knight so cleverly put it.
Can we get an answer to this, please? Just a little "Yea, we're working on it," would be nice. As little assurance as that gives us (especially considering Nick saying that the Callahan, Iron Slug, and Shard Bombs are getting buffed quite a long time ago and nothing happening since then) it's better than nothing.
"especially considering Nick saying that the Callahan, Iron Slug, and Shard Bombs are getting buffed quite a long time ago"
Whoa whoa whoa, when did OOO ever promise to do anything about Shard Bombs?
Your post is otherwise spot on.
I remember them saying they were at least going to fix the buggy nature of the bomb, which can kind of be considered a buff...? Why they haven't bothered to fix them by now is beyond me.
Actually, I can't grasp why they haven't bothered to fix a lot of simple things (changing damage values for some slight balancing, adding statuses back onto the Suda line, giving us dates on upcoming updates, telling us when the Black Kat event is coming back, etc.) It's not like it's against the law to test out some of those little things with us and let us give them feedback... unless of course they're going to ignore it... again.
+13471471458258246246.
@Shamanala
Zeddy bumped this topic because it's still very relevant.
@Zopyros
But giving us dates would spoil all the fun! It's not like they're producing content on conveyor belts travelling at constant speeds, anyway.
This thread needs at least ten new posts every day until we are satisfied.
Not with bribes or events. Give us what we are asking for.
@Krakob
I like suprises as much as the next guy, but making OOO give dates one future events avoids them on not committing to their promises. Making them set dates for things avoids situations like King Krogmo claiming that there's going to be new games in the Coliseum "all season," where we haven't even seen any variation in the two games that are already there. Things like a CTF mode or Deathmatch mode for Lockdown that would be thrown in during the stage selection.
It also avoids them making promises about more DLC missions, where we haven't seen a new one in MORE THAN A YEAR. While the reception of the Expansion Mission was met with some controversy, some of which could have been easily fixed if they let people buy the mission with CE at a later date and seriously restrict who can go into the mission, that shouldn't have completely stopped development on these.
And most recently it will prevent them from saying that an event will make a return, never give the date for the return, and never make the event come back because technically it could still happen "in the future."
I understand that they have a small team, but so do a lot of indie devs like Mojang, Klei Entertainment, Behemoth, and Gaijin Games. Especially Mojang and Klei are constantly creating new content, listening to feedback, and making small changes to their games in small updates just for the sake of balance and upkeep.
OOO seems to like big fanfare and "gigantic" updates where they add some things and try to fix one or two others for the sole purpose of drawing in new customers. It kind of works, but it hugely neglects the players that have stayed with them the longest. I'm finding more and more vets that have just stopped playing because there is seriously NOTHING to do but grind and grind some more when an event decides to roll around. While they gain some new players each event who stick around for a month or two before they reach the wall of having to make a 4* set, they are continuously shafting the vets for the sake of trying to draw in new crowds who won't even stay.
You do make several points. I think it is good that OOO do give themselves room to adapt in case they develop an idea to the point where it's teasable to the players but then realise it might be bad or so. On the other hand, we haven't seen any buff for Iron Slug yet. How long ago were we promised one? I don't quite remember but they should've done something at least a millennium ago.
I think people are somewhat harsh on OOO, anyway. Servers cost a lot and OOO is dependent on a product that is acquirable in (theoretically) infinite amounts to F2P players and thus, sales could probably be better. I dunno if this is entirely true but considering OOO's focus on promos, it says something. Maybe it's just Seaga breathing down their neck for cash. No matter, the amount of promos probably means that OOO has needed more cash and ten nubs makes them more cash than a veteran. And now, we're finally getting a major content update that is Sprites. Will nubs like it? Yes. Will veterans like it? Hopefully. Will it be satisfying to the majority? Yes.
OOO is not an indie crew, anyway. They do not make their games entirely for fun, they also need to make good profit and that's something say, Mojang doesn't have to give a fudge about. You know the difference between Mojang and OOO, by the way? One is an indie studio that gained huge popularity and arose to become the 2nd to biggest game developer of Sweden, having sold several millions of Minecraft copies. The other is a small, serious business owned by Sega that tries to make a living and also make Sega happy and keep the servers running by making MMOs that face insane competition.
I think just giving themselves definite dates on little updates would be the best solution. Maybe a balance and bugfix update once a month so we don't go such long stretches worrying if they're even listening to all of the balance discussion going on in the Suggestions forums. At this point we don't even know if a single OOO employee has considered a single one of the plethora of balances suggested by Zeddy, Lug, Fehz, and others down there. It's a little disheartening. Especially considering the buggy nature of the new Shard Bombs, something that they admitted to being buggy and needing fixing only to leave it alone and not touch it at all.
Same goes for the outcry against the Chaos set buff, which made the Mad Bomber set completely obsolete (as well as nearly every other offensive armor, but Mad suffered the most). They said they realized it was a problem and that they were going for a "glass cannon," but haven't touched it at all since then.
Setting some dates or making a monthly update where they would fix things like that would go a long way to keeping the players who play long enough to see all the faults and want to help OOO fix them. If making an entire update is just too hard for them to do every month, they could keep us updated with a blog or something. The Clockworks Confidentials are helpful, but they tend to avoid the hard questions that are posted there about balance and such.
Don't get me wrong, I like the whole teaser thing they've been doing with the Battle Sprites, Black Kats, and now the Dustbuns. It at least shows that, yes, they are working on new stuff but they aren't any more definite than OOO saying "We're working on it." The screenshots show that they are very close to being in the game, but a lot of people who've been Spiral Spying probably already knew that.
Mojang is never the best comparison which is why I tried to provide other examples. The amount of luck that Minecraft had when it exploded across the indie crowd and then into the mainstream is nigh impossible to recreate. Any devs that plan on their products having the same success are in for a world of disappointment. What is admirable though is that they are still making a vast amount of content for a game that they could quite frankly never have to touch again and still make money off of it. Honestly, they have so much money from Minecraft alone every programmer they have could live quite comfortably for quite a while. Regardless of how much money they made, every week they release a test snapshot where they gather feedback from the dedicated parts of their community about upcoming content.
OOO is in a vastly different situation, being owned by Sega now and running a different kind of game which requires constant cash flow, but some things could still carry over between them. Why can't OOO keep us updated on things and interact with us more? Are they that busy on new content? If so, then can they open up the test servers and let some players test things out so they don't have the tremendous backlash from when they make their own uninformed decisions? If opening up the test servers costs too much, then they could at least open up more surveys or ways for us to communicate directly with them. As I said before, right now we have no idea if they even read anything we post or if they even take us seriously. The only threads the GMs and developers tend to post on are threads where people are being tremendous trolls or stuff is being spoiled.
I mean look at this thread. A thread posted a nearly a year ago asking for a simple answer on whether there would be a balance update, posted by a respected member of the community, garnered some positive responses from the community, mostly agreeing that we did need some sort of balance update, and yet it goes completely ignored. Even after we brought it back from the grave it still hasn't gotten a response.
But maybe we are being kind of harsh to OOO. We have no idea how much work is going into the game or how much money is going into the game vs. how much is needed to run it. There's a lot we don't know so we make assumptions and unfortunately a lot of them are kind of mean. It doesn't mean that we don't love the game. It's probably because we love the game that we're such harsh critics towards OOO. Speaking personally, I love the style and look of the game, the character and monster designs, the unique gameplay, and just a huge batch of other tiny things that SK does just right. What I hate is the lazy parts of the game (Gunslinger hats... just the vogdamn Gunslinger hats) and the ridiculously long periods of inactivity, which rivals Valve's recent treatment of TF2.
You can even check out my tumblr here: http://pixelhat.tumblr.com
Most of the art I put up there is SK related. Hell, I've even been considering taking up OOO's open Game Artist job in Philadelphia in the vain hope that I'll get to work on SK.
So sorry, OOO, if I'm a bit rude in my dealings with you. I only do it because I love you.
Oh, and it's kind of funny, but apparently Wikipedia still considers OOO an indie company? It doesn't even mention Spiral Knights or the Doctor Who MMO as one of their games either... Would they be under Sega instead? The information is probably seriously dated, but it was interesting nonetheless.
I love that thread infact... ^-^
And reading it helped me think of some things to fix... :D