Selling goods and the lack thereof
Thu, 04/28/2011 - 21:08
When I first started playing and was plowing through tier 1 stuff I didn't really have a problem selling the items i didn't need like iron gears, swordstones and other various 2 star items. Was even able to trade them for other items of equal value.
But lately I haven't been able to sell a single thing, no silver coils, swordstones, heavy gears, miracloth. Nothing.
Trade chat is literally spammed by at least ten different people selling random 1-4 star items, its all sell and no buy.
I do a couple of dungeon dives a day and each time take a half hour to read some forums, relax and try to sell my stuff. But I get no bites.
It only seems like recipes sell these days, and the materials are piling up in everyones inventories.
I mean I could probably vendor everything I got from a jelly and make more crowns faster then if I just held out on trying to sell it to someone.
Am I just unlucky with timing or is anyone else kind of experiencing this? I don't think I can continue to play as much as I had on crowns obtained purely from dungeons.
Thu, 04/28/2011 - 23:23
#2
It's definitely a buyers
It's definitely a buyers market :D
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 00:50
#3
Drop your prices. Keep
Here's some advice, and I think it's a concept MOST PLAYERS ABSOLUTELY NEED TO START WRAPPING THEIR MINDS AROUND:
Drop your prices. The item not moving, even after 20 minutes? Keep dropping. And dropping. Advertise. When you finally get a sale, understand that this is the "new" value of the item to you. Don't be discouraged -- just stop kidding yourself. This is the only solution.
A glut of supply and low demand means that your items are actually worth less. So many people still trying to get "old" prices like, say .... 1200 for a swordstone or something .... they must be getting so frustrated, because they have such a skewed perception of what the value of their stuff actually is.
Here, try this: pick the 3* material with the highest quantity in your inventory.
Check the average price for the material at clockworkmarket.com. Also watch the other offers for the same material in trade chat. Now, undercut that price by at least 20%, and do so LOUDLY. And a LOT. In say in the most crowded areas you can find, and in trade chat. You'll dump your wares, trust me.
No, this isn't caving in and getting less than what something is worth. I can't stress this enough -- all you're doing is acknowledging reality, and coming to terms with the fact that your first exposure to the price of certain materials occurred when there was, say, 20,000 iterations of that material gamewide. Now that there's 200,000, your perception of the value of that material needs to adjust, or you'll be clinging to it forever.
Realizing this and mentally forcing myself to look at the situation rationally is all that's worked for me. I've made about 70k crowns in two days, just idling for a few minutes between clockwork runs. All I've done is made myself willing to readjust my old perception of what things were worth. It's better I have the very useful, very liquid cash than the very useless, very dust-gathering pile of 5,000 unused mats sitting in my inventory.
Here's another minor tip to clear out some of those mats. I've found it works for me:
Look at your recipes, even the really low-star items, and find what you have the materials to make right at that moment (meaning, probably nothing that requires a leveled-up previous version of equipment). Convert the CE cost to crowns (in terms of the going rate), add in the direct crowns cost, then throw in an estimate of the value of the materials involved as best you can. Then, advertise to sell a premade of that item AT COST. By that, I mean, don't attempt to mark up the price of the premade simply because you made it. Rather, consider it as nothing more than a method to make a sale of the materials involved, and an easier way to move them than trying to push them on the market individually. Don't attempt to make a profit beyond that .... you'll be shouting until you're hoarse with most items. Only very, very in-demand items will still move at markup in this economy!
It may help to stress in your ads that you make the item to order, and you'll give any UV to the buyer.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 01:23
#4
Good idea duke
@Duke, I like the idea in the last paragraph. Of course, you have to remember to use the new 'real' value of items. Can't throw a swordstone into a caliber and assume it's adding 1200 cr to it, lol.
@OP Here's my real world experience over the last week. You can sell swordstones for 3-400. Iron gears for 3-400. Owlite feathers for 5-600. Shards for 100. Grave dirt for 2-300. Those are WTS prices. However, if someone else WTB add 1-200.
I Know some of that is real cheap, but, others are selling for cheaper. And you are better off selling 4 swortstones for 1600 and going into a dungeon and getting more (easy enough), then you are waiting an extra hour to sell them for 2.4k (and good luck with that).
@OP Another tip, go to the bottom left alchemy in bazaar. That's where new players buy and make their stock vendor cobalt 2star items. imagine the shock and horror when they didn't know they needed a swordstone. Boom, that's a 500 swordstone there :) Also, always watch tradechat--when u see WTB make an offer. I always say, "I have that, make me an offer you can comfortably afford-please, and i'll see if i can do it". It is the best whisper for responses for me. And it works that they'll make you an offer, and either u like it or you don't. When someone says 200 per owlite feather, i say no thanks. When they say 400 per owlite feather, i say i need 600 to break even sorry.
Lastly, watch the trade chat for items selling below AT costs. Someone who went UV hunting. I bough an owlite shield for 2k today. It takes 2 feathers, 400 transmute crowns, and 50 energy (2k crowns). So that's at least 600 worth of feathers (at an awful price of 300 per) 400 crowns for transmute, and 2k of energy. It cost them no less than 3k--and they sold it for 2k. Cha-ching i will make 1k=1.5k profit on that in the next few days.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 01:34
#5
@jeburk Except that they used
@jeburk Except that they used mist energy and looted the mats so the item cost them 400, which means they also just netted the same profit :)
Also, when I "wtb" I list it in semi bulk at a very low price and eventually somebody sells me them. That's why I say it is a buyers market. If I want a price for mats I almost certainly get them.
I recommend dukelexon's post if you want to sell more than 1 - 2 mats a day. He has the real grasp of why is going on here.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 01:43
#6
@viper
lol, that's so awful!! The person who sold me the shield tried to talk me into buying to UV owlites but i wanted (could afford) only the normal 1.
P.S. Yes, OP, viper will get his price as the buyer. This is why duke was saying we all had to lower our prices. As a rule, people now buy when their patience meets a price they can live with. If someone wants a silver coil for 200, they'll get it if they wait long enough :/ but they won't get it for me. I'll sell mine to someone with less patience for 1-2k. I don't have to get rid of it today.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 02:11
#7
Actually, dukelexon's advice
Actually, dukelexon's advice on advertising loudly, is a good way of ending up on a lot of ignore lists. It is better to just advertise clearly, with conservative use of Caps and special characters.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 02:20
#8
@jeburk Yeah that's true the
@jeburk Yeah that's true the patience works both ways :). Especially in a game with no auction house where people can buy money ::wicked grin::
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 02:32
#9
Some advice
[Disclaimer]
I'm still trying to make money for my 5* stuff and obviously don't know THAT much of the real secrets to piles of crowns, but a few tips that you could easily try to get some business.
-Trade is spammed? Even general is spammed? Stand at the Arcade alchemy or Token Alchemy machines and /say. Of course, don't go all out spamming or you'll end up ignored.
-Have something people would be interested in. Or, if you're selling not-so-desired stuff, round some numbers off, offer a bulk discount, throw in freebies. Make the deal attractive. If they don't buy your first package, they might ask about others.
-Undercut to a point. I know this might sound counter-intuitive, but rampant undercutting, especially in a short span of time, ends up hurting not only future sales, but yourself. You don't want to be the one who does high markups. You also wouldn't want to be the one to be seen as trashing the economy.
UNLESS
You have no trouble getting the rare stuff you need yourself and are already dripping in mats. But if you're posting here about the issue, chances are you aren't a part of the pros :p
-Be patient. And I don't mean keep waiting until someone finally agrees to buy your one and only 4* item for [price that wouldn't sell]. Probe a bit if you're unsure, but don't be thinking "rawr u needz mah [insert mat name] cuz iz supa rare lololol so i sellz expensiv!" Chances are, someone else has a stock of them waiting to dump.
-This next bit probably requires more effort. Know some of the recipes. If someone just advertised green shards, there's that chance he might want monster bones/critter carapace/bushy tail. You get the idea. The more specific the need, the more likely it's to make something. And sometimes, to get that item made sooner, people might be willing to splurge more to speed up the process. Grab that opportunity if you can.
In before the leet players come in and "lol dabian your advice sucks your gear sucks". /Paranoid dun-tase-meh-bro look.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 02:49
#10
I'm waiting for the day when
I'm waiting for the day when we don't have to explain the idea of supply vs. demand to the players of every new MMO.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:49
#11
@jeburk
@jeburk:
Two things,
In my experience even your listed prices are pretty high. I will only pay a max of 17cr for shards and 25cr for 1* mats and never had any trouble finding sellers at those prices. The 2,3, and 4 star mats have more variability since the strata of the popular gates make some of them more popular than others, but it's not uncommon to see people struggling to sell their 2* mats for 100cr a piece, and I've bought tons of them at 50cr a piece.
Also, I wouldn't be too sure about the profit you're going to make on that owlite shield. I would be quite pleased if I could sell 2 star equipment at 2000cr a pop, but at those prices people just don't want to buy, I typically have to go more toward 1500-1700 to get a sale on different pieces of 2 star gear.
Remember in your valuations people, that mist energy is not worth the same level of crowns as crystal energy (and why would it, you can do a lot more with CE than ME). This is why it is so hard to make a profit selling or crafting 2* gear, because the recipes aren't that expensive and people can just build it themselves using 12 hours worth of ME and save 2000 crowns, if you don't happen to have the free time to clockworks dive for a while then using that ME is effectively free.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:55
#12
I am experiencing this too.
I am experiencing this too. Lately, some recipes doesn't want to be bought too! Because so many players are obtaining them, there is no need to buy a second one. Now the only way to make true money is to sell a 4 or 5 star item premade with UV no less! Trading is becoming more difficult each day!
I know that you can sell your matz to the npc vendors, but come ON! They only give 1 crown for 1-3 star mat and 5 crowns for 4-5 star mat? That is a big bogus rip off! Those dumb clockworks people doesn't understand the value of matz do they? Why don't they go down the depths and see how they like it? I bet they would get owned!
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 12:29
#13
This game is fun, but not fun
This game is fun, but not fun enough to warrant standing around for an hour or more selling drops for beans.
We need an auction house bad.
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 12:37
#14
"We need an auction house
"We need an auction house bad."
Yes.
And it's coming.
Let us all pray that it will come quickly, invoking the divine beings of our preference.
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 12:40
#15
Yeah yeah I know, just sour I
Yeah yeah I know, just sour I essentially missed the first week or so of drops selling for awesome amounts of cash and CE being cheap.
Sat, 04/30/2011 - 01:32
#16
@Trias
@Trias
Actually, dukelexon's advice on advertising loudly, is a good way of ending up on a lot of ignore lists. It is better to just advertise clearly, with conservative use of Caps and special characters.
Well, you seem to have interpreted my use of the word "loudly" to mean "annoying, flashy, spamming, in all caps," but that's not what I was saying at all. I agree that those things will irritate quite a few people. I only meant that when you post ads, to make sure your price is clearly noted, to make them noticeable and easy to understand, and to not simply send a single message for a single item then sit in silence for five minutes. I also wanted to impress that it's perfectly reasonable to send alternating ads between /say and /trade. I meant make the fact that you're selling lower than the competition very public and obvious. When one is too cautious and timid, nobody will notice or read your stuff ..... so it's possible to go to both extremes. Anyone who places you on ignore for one humble (but clear and competitive) ad every 120 seconds is taking things a bit far.
At any rate, that was but a miniscule portion of the advice of my post in the first place, and even if I meant exactly what you misinterpreted me to mean, you focused on it like an out-of-context laser beam. What gives? :/
Sat, 04/30/2011 - 01:32
#17
@dmosinee
@dmosinee,
fair point on you finding my prices a little high...which is exactly whey we are having this conversation. And, i am fully ready to believe that my prices are a little high. It seems like prices of mats are dropping lower and lower.
2nd point, on being lucky to sail 2star equip at 2k. I find this is true for most 2star items. In my experience the owlite series and demo series are a bit of an exception to the rule. Maybe a lot of people want to 2 shields more often than 2 armors (this is my personal preference as well) and that's why it is a special case for the owlite shield. And not as many people can make u a demo whatever as can make a wolver whatever.
This has been my experience, and i come back to that because...everyone who plays (myself definitely included) has such a narrow sample size of sailing items/buy/finding items that we don't have realistic prices.
PS a lot of times i price my mats a little higher, because i don't know if i will need them in the future or not. My price for mats is based solely on what do i feel is more valuable to me this mat or those crowns. This has became a standard i am marginally comfortable with, and makes me feel better about selling mats for possibly less than they are worth, and also makes me feel better about not selling things when someone offers an amount i don't like.
Every now and then you will find someone mass buying low * crafting items to grind for a UV. Honestly I don't do much selling, not sure what else to tell you. When everything seems to drop something you end up with an overabundance of most sorts of mats.