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New content wanted? I'll bet you were thinking about it before I said it.

11 replies [Last post]
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 04:58
Psychorazer

I can't really be around to answer any questions, or defend this thread myself, due to some promises I can't afford to make, so I'll ask you guys nicely not to start pulling punches. At me, or anyone else who decides to post here. If someone tries to start a riot, do everyone a favour and ignore him/her.

The last thing you do to an oil fire is pout water on it. (Don't get it, look it up. It makes more sense than you'd think.)

Anyway, to the topic at hand.

New content. You know you want it, we've (=just about everyone who reads the forums, and more) heard you say it, and there's been more than just it's 'fair share' of rage over this topic. (Even if not now. Apologies, I wanted to write this in case I forget what it is I wanted to say again, instead of waiting for the next solar flare.)

But does anybody ever think about WHY there's no new content?

Sure, there are the conspiracy theories. 'OOO is just trying to rile up players', 'OOO only cares for new players', 'Omg OOO wai no new content Iv aked lik 500 times'(not sure how that's conspiring...)

Me? I thought about this a while back, while furiously trying to continue the five or so stories I'm working on at the same time, on top of my schoolwork. (Don't blame me for trying, my brain develops these damn things on it's own. Just the slightest inspiration creates a story fragment. That fragment either adds itself to an existing story, or creates a new one. I have to write them down at least a little or it won't leave me alone.)

Ever heard of something called writer's block? It's a problem a writer has, where the ideas just won't come anymore. It leaves you not knowing where to go from there, or what else to do. It may even be a problem while fleshing out an existing idea; you just don't know what else to say.

This is likely the problem.

Look at it this way. The basic story for Spiral Knights was 'Crash -> Discover -> Trek+fight -> Core'. That was it really. That was the story.

Then the fleshed out the story, added bosses, and stages, and tadaa, the stage was set.

In effect, this was the end of finishing writing a story. All your ideas are used up, and your story has a start, a body, and an end.

The thing is, when people started asking for something new, there was nowhere to go. What else could come from this story?

Luckily, they had the Swarm idea. Not sure if it was planned long before, or thought of later, but either way, it was there.

But then what? They may have opened up possibilities a bit with the extra bit of story, but what else could there be? Interdimensional transport to another battlefield? Corruption and rebellion? A struggle for power?

Each possibility could close up the story tighter than the last.

Point:If OOO really is making it up as they go, you can't really expect them to pull an extension from mid-air. Continuing a story if you're running on empty is harder than you people seem to think.

But you guys probably don't buy that argument.

So, here's what if OOO isn't making it up as they go.

I'd speculate that if they had all this planned before, they'd have at least enough new content stored up after the launch for a regular endgame player to cut through in about 14 months if they launched it all at once.

So why aren't they giving it to you?

The answer is simple. They give you the content. You finish the content. You get bored and beg for more content. You ragequit due to the lack of new content, because now, OOO has nothing new to give you, their 'new content' having been and gone.

With that kind of release, SK won't last long at all. If OOO was really hiding content, then they obviously plan to release it at different times, to extend the life (and therefore, moneymaking capacity from public exposure time) of SK.

If they threw all the content you wanted at you when you asked for it, SK would be a dead game in months. Seriously, SK is technically only a year old. There has been ONE content update (if Shadow Lairs are viewed by the general community as new content, which works for me). You can't really expect OOO to update the game with new ideas any sooner than that; they would have to work on the new-er ideas even faster, and eventually we'd be left with cliche stories and pathetic gameplay updates that just make SK look gaudy, with no real use.

Personally, I think people are too obsessed with finishing the game.

Yeah, laugh it up. It's true though. When you play a game, your main objective is more likely to be to finish the game than to play it solely because you think it's cool.

Personally my main objective was to solo the Royal Jelly no deaths, but that lasted me about six months before I turned to endgame as my next checkpoint.

But when you think about it, if you rushed to the end of the game, you can hardly expect there to BE anything after that; it's the end of the game.

Better to take your time, making the best you can out of your player AS you proceed to complete your goals, to fully enjoy the game.

I'm serious. You will find, most of you anyway, that your main source of motivation for playing the game is more or less some form of objective. You WANT to reach that objective, so you throw everything you can at it.

The problem is, once you complete it, there more or less nothing to do. Unfortunately, for SK, the widely accepted solution seems to be periodically start a riot demanding new content.

The bottom line is, it isn't that simple. If you think otherwise, by all means, ask OOO to hire you as creative developer and cook up something new that veteran player's aren't just going to shake a stick at.

On the other hand, neither am I saying OOO should never update the game. Because that would be stupid. And regardless of how little I can think at times, I'm not THAT brain dead, contrary to popular belief.

All I'm saying is that players should be more patient in waiting to get what it is they want. Every time there's an accessory or feature update, I see choruses of 'omg ooo fail update noobs y no neu content i bored 2 death dis gam iz so ded we all going 2 leave real soon' or things of the like.

If they give you the content NOW, that's content you can't get LATER, and it's the SOONER you'll get bored of the game. Go build stuff on Minecraft or something while you wait, its not like SK can GO anywhere while you're not looking, 'cept to the grave if everyone does that at the same time... Forget I said that.

I understand your frustration. I really do. But that doesn't mean you SHOULD be getting frustrated. It's inevitable that SK will hit a figurative wall at some point. Getting angry at it works up no-one but yourself.

...

I lied, it also works up anyone else who reads such posts, agreeing with you or not.

It's unnecessary rage over something that WILL happen. If you want it THAT badly, think up new VIABLE ideas to post in suggestions that could possibly be the basis of new content. And if you really cared, you'd care LESS if there was a instant reaction from OOO or not, because you'd know you've done YOUR part and submitted something possibly worthwhile to be considered for implementation. All that remains is to see whether or not OOO holds up their end and EVENTUALLY gives you what you want.

I don't doubt I'll get flamed for pretending to be a know-it-all or OOO-diehard-lover, which is what I'd prefer not happen, seeing as neither is true. 'Talking out of my depth'? Moreso likely, so I won't complain.

I just want players to stop thinking OOO or anybody else owes them something. I don't CARE if you spent your LIFE SAVINGS on Spiral Knights, you can't go demanding for things you have no-idea are how difficult to create. I personally have trouble enough trying to think of how to flesh out my own storylines, let alone continue one on a whim.

I've said what I can. I may think of more to say later, but that is beside the point.

All that remains to be seen is whether or not my effort makes a difference to anyone at all. If I changed the opinion, even partially, to deter further content-related rage outbursts of even ONE person, I will be satisfied.

If not, well, screw me.

Apologies for the wall of text. If anyone can say what I just did in less words, be my guest.

Oh, and I'm not new here either. If you didn't already know:
~Since then, and forever: Psychodestroyer
...
~On an alt. Mustn't forget the alt.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 07:04
#1
Aplauses's picture
Aplauses
New content?

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/58164

This explain everything.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 07:36
#2
Artistbma's picture
Artistbma
@Psychodestroyer/Psycho-Valkyrie

Amazing. Truly amazing.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 07:39
#3
Juances's picture
Juances
~

"Point:If OOO really is making it up as they go, you can't really expect them to pull an extension from mid-air. Continuing a story if you're running on empty is harder than you people seem to think."

NOPE.

If you look at it, all the regular bosses in the game are practically unrelated to the main plot.

It's always the same excuse:
"we found some recon module from alpha squad in a scary place guarded by a giant thing, go look at it"

They dont have to thinker much to keep those coming......

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 07:43
#4
Enclavean's picture
Enclavean
Where is TL;DR?

Where is TL;DR?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 07:48
#5
Pauling's picture
Pauling
I have a much more rational-

I have a much more rational- and concise- explanation. Think about all the programming, testing, art, and writing required to make a game.

Then, look at how short the list of actual developers is. Note that at least some of these team members will need to devote time to keeping the game running, testing(ish), and fixing existing bugs in old content.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Developer#Game_Development_Team

And, oh yeah. Some new levels/mechanics were up for testing just last weekend. Plus, several devs have very recently referred to more new content in the works.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 08:02
#6
Xylka-Mkii's picture
Xylka-Mkii
Also even if the point of a

EDIT: ^^ He said it best. Small dev team means less code made, and less people making it.

Also even if the point of a game for people is to finish it quickly, that doesnt mean we wont keep playing it!

If we had double the content right now, and there was an actual endgame, that wound't mean people would quit instantly. We want something to entertain us, and like Juances said, its not hard to think of a new monster model, drop in some visuals and call it a stratum. If it was entertaining, I would play it over, like the gauntlet or Arkus mission. Ever wonder why people replay Roarmulus Twins (bit of a stretch but my friend does), or Shadow lairs, or FS- ok the only reason people play FSC is for money but you get the idea. If its entertaining enough, people will replay it.

How easy thinking of concept is:

Tier 3 boss strata
New level type: Ice / Freeze
How many new monsters wanted: 1-3 not counting the boss
Boss monster: Some sort of Ice serpent
To complete the boss: Use switches and draw its attacks to areas to open up a path to attack it's head or something. Invincible from anywhere else,
Exrtras in the boss fight: 2 Freeze Howlitzers, 4 frostifurs (spawn at certain stages of the fight)
Tokens: Trade for some new accessories, some sort of new weapon or armor.

Drop in some new strategy ideas with switches in the levels before and you have a new boss strata.

That took me 10 minutes to think of.... And you're saying its hard to? Nope. We have a suggestions forum full of stuff, but some of the good ones get pushed out in favor of pets >.>

So yeah, the only problem they should have is creating the models, animations, and level design. Now assuming this was thought of way back when it was wanted the first time, they should be close to finishing it.

But instead we get Legion of Almire. And I only saw 2 new enemies in SpiralSpy, both of which did not excite me in the least for the new content.

The only hard part is the coding and actual designing of the new stuff. Making up concept is probably the easiest part of the process.

Double Edit of somewhat related topic: I envy Ian and Cory's skills at SK art . @_@

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 08:18
#7
Aumir's picture
Aumir
Artist block?

So, you say that they don't know how to continue or finish the game, that they don't have ideas in the current world? Well let us see:

- Explore further Almirian lore (something that it is coming with Legion of Almire)
- Further expand our conflict with the Gremlins (Crimson Hammer chapter 2 was already announced it is coming)

That is what right now I am seeing, now, what else could they do?

- Start expanding the Swarm area of influence, with corrupted areas in-game (something I suggested)
- Finding out what some scenario rooms tease (for example, that big sword in Wolver Dens with "a map of the stars")
- Traveling in time somehow and relive historical moments like how Almire fell, and the Kat vs Owlite war.
- Expanding interaction in Moorcraft Manor and Emberlight, with possible new areas (a phantom train, a scrap area that outcasts make use)
- Exploring the surface of Cradle (someone said it was "merciless")

And that is all without opening up the Core!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 08:21
#8
Soarel's picture
Soarel
I c wat u did thar.

Wait a sec--

If psychodestroyer wants us to recognize him as a noted personality for this--

Why did he post on an alt?

Dark forces are at work.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 10:35
#9
Tohru-Adachi's picture
Tohru-Adachi
-_-

RL problems, something's wrong with steam, LIFE, ect.

Should I slap you?

Now here. Also, you forgot small team.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:27
#10
Soarel's picture
Soarel
facepalm

>OP posts that no new content can be added

>new content comes out on same day

>facepalm

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:21
#11
Psychorazer

Oi.

I never said new content can't exist, I said new content is not so easy to come by, so don't start a riot every once-while about how nothing new is happening.

I'm on an alt because it's too troublesome to log into Psychodestroyer, which is on Steam. And that's time I can't spend.

I'd like to think I have a little more integrity than that. The only reason I left my name there was so that readers who didn't already know would know (hopefully) that I'm not some new guy that's been playing for two hours before deciding I know everything. Fame or recognition or the like was never the object.

@Others: My argument isn't perfect, and the development (team) is a factor as well. Thanks for pointing that out.

@Juances: I was speaking more in terms of adding to the story, not really on developing what's already there. I thought players would usually react badly to development of that sort?

@Xylka: The last I checked, players reacted negatively to 'new shiny things'. I was under the impression that players are more in want of a story progression, instead of things like reskins, gameplay changes and new things adding onto existing game material. No offense intended.

@Aumir: I'm not saying they can't, I saying the general impression seems that it'd be so easy to. Like, walk-in-the-park easy.

Sure, they could probably throw in Vana's mother as a boss, but that wouldn't really go very far in terms of keeping Endgame players entertained. Again, no offense intended in case you think my tone's a little off.

Also, your suggestions ARE valid, but it's not JUST the idea. They need the DETAIL behind it too. The Kat/Owlite wars for instance. You'd need the design for the owlites (the shields should provide a good base), the progression of the battle (There wouldn't really be much to having the battle 'supposed' to be going on around you, reach the end, owlites suddenly gone.) Things like that.

But thanks for the suggestions, it'd be great if they could be developed on.

@Pauling: I'm a little out of touch with the game, I haven't really played it in a few weeks. IRL things are, ah, barring me from the game. So apologies for not being up-to-date with recent happenings.

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