Spiral Knights - The Tactical Gunner: A Guide to a Different Battle Style

The Tactical Gunner: A Guide to a Different Battle Style

26 replies [Last post]

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 04:00

Captainofskaia

In the other 2 threads that discuss elite gunner styles, there isn't much about alchemer tricks and speed gunning. I have found that across the board, people seem to be damage gunners; for things such as FSC, they focus on doing the most damage PER HIT (equipping shadowsun), which I have found to be quite boring, if you will. Speed gunning is about landing the maximum number of HITS, to create more damage in a smaller amount of time. I prefer a method of tactical speed gunning which uses about 75% alchemers, and 25% other guns, centers around pre-planned strategy, angles, attacking around corners, and the like. I very rarely have to shield, and things never really get too hot to handle. Damage Per Second, on this guide, will not be measured per enemy, per hit, but as either "Total Combo" or "Total Charge" damage, which is the "Damage Per Combo/Shot/Charge Over All Enemies Hit", which is more appropriate for Alchemers, due to the Ricochet abilities.

My Current Loadout is as follows:
Helm: Seerus Mask, UV Shadow Med
Armor: Nameless Poncho, UV Pierce Med
Shield: Swiftstrike Buckler UV Pierce Maximum!
Trinket Slot 1: Elite Trueshot
Trinket Slot 2: Elite Trueshot OR Elite Handgun Focus
Weapon Slot 1: Hail Driver UV Undead Medium
Weapon Slot 2: Storm Driver UV Construct Medium
Weapon Slot 3: Umbra Driver
Weapon Slot 4: Blitz Needle, UV Undead Medium, Gremlin Low.

I'll probably be posting links to screenshots in this thread as well, regarding specific alchemer tricks, as this should act as an in-depth guide to learning how to perform them.

EDIT: Upon request for clarification, most of the strategy revolves around normal alchemer shots and their ricochet abilities, creating an 1000+ damage total combo in stratum 6. That said, there are a few of the tricks which use charge, thus the switch-out in TS2 for the Elite Trueshot OR the Elite Handgun Focus.

EDIT 2: Because of Confusion, I changed the name of the thread from "Strike" gunner to "Tactical Gunner". I hope this clears up the questions.
--
The Captain

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 04:14

Captainofskaia

RE: attacking around corners

On the charge attack of 5* drivers, the main bolt splits into 4 parts, instead of two, unlike its predecessors. The first 2 bolts follow the same route as they would have when fired by a 4* or lower, however, the second 2 bolts come out at a >80 degree angle from the initial trajectory, effectively allowing you to attack around corners. this is particularly useful in levels such as Wasteworks, Blast Furnace, and Cooling Chamber, as well as in Candlestick Keep, where you can often chance upon your enemies before they chance upon you.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 06:23

Doctorspacebar

SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS

That's an efficient set. Hail and Storm Driver are the two "Crowd Control" alchemers, and they're both very useful, though one might swap out for a Nova in Freeze or Shock levels. You max ASI, and can choose VH Damage and VH CTR, or Med Damage and Max CTR.

If I were a gunslinger instead of a demoman, I'd go with this stuff.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 13:48

Pepperonius

Definitely a good way to go about it

Although using an alchemer is another great way of doing oodles of damage quickly. A well placed charge attack can easily surpass 800 damage on a single enemy, if dont correctly.

Personally, i use the shadowsun set, SSB, a CTR trinket and a Trueshot module. MAX dmg, hi speed and max ctr. Alchemer switching is a great way to increase your rate of fire, as well.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 13:55

Captainofskaia

Good to See

That people are on board with me here. I will continue to post protips then, as well as screenshots.

@DoctorSpacebar: I do have a nova, although I rarely use it. I have a Magma with undead high, which I love using in freeze levels.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 14:16

Bopp

my two cents

I'd like to learn more about "alchemer tricks and speed gunning". But I don't see why this is incompatible with "doing the most damage in the smallest amount of time". Maybe you could edit your first post, to make your goals a little clearer. Are you talking about a gunning play style dominated by alchemer charge attacks? Then you'll want big CTR and big damage bonus --- for example, Shadowsun with gun CTR trinkets. Or are you talking about a play style dominated by alchemer regular attacks? Then you'll want Nameless/Justifier with damage trinkets. Maybe you can clarify?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 16:32

Captainofskaia

Clarification

Is that Better?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 17:24

Pepperonius

Most importantly

as an alchemer gunner, you need autotarger TURNED OFF. What the captain refers to is the riccochet damage, which you can only get by precise aiming, usually to the slight right of the enemy... almost like shooting their arm. Nothing can replace a blitz' damage, but the downside is being immobile while shooting. The alchemers are a fine balance in mobility and damage, and are frankly my favorite gun (aside from Valiance, because that gun is a blast to use)

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 17:40

Tenkii

On alchemer charge

I was wondering whether I should create a recon (gunner) [or in reality, full-recon] guide/thread, since recently, I've attained success as a Recon gunner (IT'S GOT VIABILITY GUYS!). Depending on what direction I want to focus on (full vs just-gunner), it could end up having different amounts of content, but anyway...

On alchemer charges and ricochets: Beware invincibility frames. You will generally NOT get double-ricochet or critical charge attack OHKO shots.

I didn't originally know about them until the week when it broke and all hell (or in my case, heaven) was unleashed and Alchemer ricochets worked at their full potential, but basically, an enemy needs to be damaged at a certain rhythm if you want each hit to count. Shoot too fast and the damage will not register (it's not lag!). This means that when you land a perfect charge attack, very rarely will shots actually hit the kind of damage you're looking for.

But the one thing I wanted to bring up (and why I brought up the recon guide idea) is that there is one very important exception that I take HUGE advantage of:

Shock.

If a target is in its shocked animation, you can unleash your full attack speed, double ricochets, etc. It's really devastating in close range because alchemer shots will bounce off of opponents (for damage), walls, teammates and you (for no damage, but the bounce can turn for the good).

That said, if you're more for the charge playstyle, if you get lucky and the large ball shocks your opponent, you are more likely to get a 1 hit kill with storm driver than any other alchemer.

Oh, and you'll be hard-pressed to find anybody immune to MODERATE shock.

PS:
- Don't look at your 'effective' damage - you don't get damage bonus for shooting a skolver with an elemental gun, but you will do your neutral damage.
- I wear Justifier set (VH ASI, combines with Recon for max ASI). While the ASI will generally not get you more DPS MOST of the time due to invincibility frames, it will keep you safer because (in your case) you can boost earlier after shooting, which means you can nail a counter hit easier if they try to get up close to you.
- Don't let the invincibility frame thing get you down: If you fight near walls, you can still use ricochets as cover fire to ward off/block an approach, or even get an initial hit in so you can get a combo shot in. Fighting in close range is actually pretty beneficial for an alchemer user in PVP

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 19:34

Storm-Shooter

this is a guide right??????

this is a guide right?????? and going through alchemers like this: shoot switch to other achemer shoot switch back to other alchemer and repeat. not very hard just practice its easy when you get a hang of it if you see me add me or ask me if you want me too show you, cya in-game!

P.S. i dont see any tricks in this guide. please add some

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 20:54

#10

Tenkii

@switch-shooting

Most of the striker-gunning I see doesn't revolve around switch-shooting.

The main reason I see is that most striker-gunners rely on spacing and pulling people to get their shots, and switch-shooting slows your movement. Max damage gunning works well for this, because it basically means you pull single, strong(er) hits while kiting/staying out of their dangerous attack range. It's doing the basics and doing them well that matters more than advanced techniques, and this goes for many games, not just SK.

Though... recon/guardian gunning... different story lol

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 21:17

#11

Captainofskaia

Excellent

Thanks so much for your PvP protips Seiran, and Your protips Perronius. I want to add that this is the correct angle for shooting: http://s9.postimage.org/hrf43hvn3/Screen_Shot_5772_10_13_at_10_53_15_PM.png

You shoot just to your character's right, of where the enemy is. Spectle, an unwitting joiner, posed for this screenshot, when i aimed where i would shoot if he was an enemy. Since it depends on what direction your character is facing, if you are above your enemy, shoot slightly to your left, still your character's right.

There's an apparent confusion here; Strike Gunner ≠ Striker Gunner. I'm not talking about something that is PvP, but more talking about a play style i've been using and refining myself, in the clockworks.

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 10:16

#12

Captainofskaia

Invincibility Frames

I just wanted to add to Seiran's Comment: All status effects prevent invincibility frames. You are more likely to double-damage when the enemy is Frozen, Shocked, or on Fire. This is why i recommend using the Status Effect alchemers for Elemental, as opposed to the Nova Driver.

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 11:43

#13

Tenkii

@non-shock status:
I didn't know about that.

I'll give magma another try :D

Also, lol, Strike is just too similar to Striker :P

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 17:18

#14

Captainofskaia

Alchemer Trick One: Rocket Room Backwards

In Firestorm Citadel, Depth 25, the Charred Court, there is a room which most of you are familiar with. The Rocket Puppy room is the bane of most people's gaming, in FSC, However, there is a somewhat known Alchemer Trick which allows you to complete the room largely undetected by the rocket puppy: Doing it backwards. With a Stacked Construct ultra, I usually take out the rocket puppy once when i first come in, so that i can get the undead to spawn. A vanilla storm driver will do this in 2 charge shots. Then return to the entrance.

First thing, begin sniping the undead to the top, such as in this picture:

http://postimage.org/image/54t1a9zwb/6539695e/

Then once the undead are dead, using the same angle, and roughly the same distance as i did in that picture, fire a charge so that the shot splits behind the blocks, opening up a way to the top. You have begun your trek backwards! As it were, many people prefer to do this by firing a regular shot against the breakable blocks, causing the ricochet to hit and open the path, however, I find that a more reliable method is just using the charge. Rinse and repeat until you are 3/4 of the way around (in the bottom right corner). This time, don't proceed forward, simply snipe the undead, then backtrack to the top to receive your reward (a sprite. yay. -sarcasm-)

The next trick i will go over is Shooting Trojans from in Front, with an Alchemer Charge, with screenshots. Then i will go over some tricks for Dark City, as well as for Legion of Almire, depth 25.

EDIT: I call it "Strike Gunning" because it involves a lot of dodging, quick motion and thinking, as well as mostly relying upon non-charge shots when engaging the enemy.

EDIT 2: I am starting with LoA tricks, because that is what is convenient.

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 15:14

#15

Dukeplatypus

The shock trick is much more

The shock trick is much more popular with Polaris or shock vials than Storm. They're more common items, less of a trick shot, and you can just ignore the puppy entirely. With Storm, you run the risk of aggroing a sleeping you do not want to fight.

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 18:44

#16

Captainofskaia

Alchemer Trick Two: One Less Almirian

I wasn't Talking about a "shock" trick, i was talking about an Alchemer Ricochet Trick. Read again. Regarding the first part, I just said "this is how I do it", not "this is how most people do it". That said, Alchemer Trick 2: One Less Almirian.

I am sure you are all familiar with the new mission, Legion of Almire. As it were, this is currently one of the more challenging missions in the game. I will assure you, However, that it is not free of alchemer tricks, and there are ways, using alchemers, which make it much easier. My main weapon in LoA is a Magma Driver with a UV Undead High, for total Undead Max Damage.

The First LoA trick that I will show you, was actually showed to me by a Nova User, Mariothane. it is in the Area after the maze room in depth 25 of LoA, where, using an alchemer charge, and ricochets, you can take out a right-side almirian crusader before beginning the battle. First go over to the stairs before the area and aim as follows:

http://s13.postimage.org/sjuywlrrr/Screen_Shot_5772_10_14_at_7_03_48_PM.png
http://s17.postimage.org/ankjuimf3/Screen_Shot_5772_10_14_at_7_03_53_PM.png

Try to hit the Almirian Crusader at far right. If you do, that's one less religious fanatic warrior, and the world is none the wiser. >.< Anyways, Go ahead and take it out with charge, since it is out of the range of normal shot.

http://s12.postimage.org/9r07x7yxp/Screen_Shot_5772_10_14_at_7_04_13_PM.png

That's all for today, more tomorrow:
--
The Captain

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 23:17

#17

Captainofskaia

Alchemer Trick 3: Outside The Map

The Dark City: A fiendish paradise, and often a nightmare for players, especially gunners, due to Devilites and their range attack capabilities. Ever wish you could play like the wolvers, and attack from outside of the map borders, to take out those pesky fiends? Well now you can! Due to the 4-Directional Charge Split of 5* Drivers, you can attack the fiends without even going in their firing range! These 2 tricks involve getting your enemies as close to the normal denonation distance of your charge (uninterrupted) such that the split shot (when the charge is fired outside the borders of the map), comes back to hit the enemies.

Part 1: Bored of Waiting

http://s9.postimage.org/bpetz8ikf/Screen_Shot_5772_10_16_at_12_05_47_AM.png

Your teammate is going to go hit the switch to begin the battle, and you are waiting. While idly shooting in random directions, It occurs to you that there are no walls preventing your driver from firing a charge out towards the enemies, around the outside of the map... and conveniently, it can attack at a 90 degree angle!

http://s7.postimage.org/dh4thv423/Screen_Shot_5772_10_16_at_12_05_52_AM.png

Go ahead and fire around the outside to hit enemies on the outside, such that your split shot hits the devilites on the outside (in the left corner in this case). This trick can also be done with a pulsar, but it is not nearly as effective as when done with an alchemer (due to the driver's abilites to ricochet into the area).

Part 2: Crowd Pressure

You suddenly find yourself behind a force field. On the other side are too many charged up devilites to count, and you can't even try to cross. Antiguas and Needle Shots come to mind, however, you aren't really a fan of trying to find just the right distance or angle to do damage. Then you realize that you can clear the crowd from a distance, with your main Alchemer!

http://s15.postimage.org/gclweqddn/Screen_Shot_5772_10_16_at_12_07_36_AM...

Do as you did in part 1, except this time you are firing to the outside of the force field (i picked left, using my magma), so that the charge explodes outside the map borders, slightly behind the force field. Your charge should hit the devilites behind the force field. It is indeed fun to see hellspawn meet a fiery end.

http://s9.postimage.org/ga1gxjj7j/Screen_Shot_5772_10_16_at_12_07_40_AM.png

That's all for today. Tomorrow I'll post the Trojan From in Front Trick (can be done even with less than 5* alchemers) and maybe around-the-corner shooting.

Thanks
--

The Captain

Fri, 07/06/2012 - 07:13

#18

Captainofskaia

Alchemer Trick 4: Around The Corner

If there is anything that is useful, it's being able to strike your enemies down without them having a chance to attack you. This is often best accomplished by firing around corners, such that your enemies don't even get a chance to see you, much less attack you. Just like in trick 3, this trick depends on you knowing the distance at which your alchemer charge naturally splits, uninterrupted.

http://i.picasion.com/pic55/90fadf9905241cb89b0fc43cb3d716c6.gif

As shown in the animation, move into position such that your detonation distance is slightly past the corner which you are trying to attack around. If done correctly, you should begin to do damage to your opponent, even though they cannot see you, and due to the Artificial Intelligence, or lack thereof, they will not attack you.

Thanks
--
The Captain

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 03:59

#19

Captainofskaia

REPLY:

Due to confusion, I am changing the name of the thread. There is a lot more tactics and pre-planning that goes into it anyway.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 05:22

#20

Bopp

okay, but

Okay, but "tactical" isn't a great description for your thread either. I mean, is there any gunner (or sworder, or bomber) who isn't "tactical"?

Isn't the right title for your thread something like "Alchemer Gunning"?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 06:31

#21

Misten

Well you know 3 O might

Well you know 3 O might someday decide to build walls at all the tactical locations that you find? It already happen once in the recent LOA danger room.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 09:41

#22

Captainofskaia

Well

I would name it "Alchemer Gunning", but it actually is only about 75% alchemers. I guess i'll have to brainstorm a better name. Hmmm

I know that OOO will possibly block a lot of these, but they may not. after all, the Blitz Needle can still do damage through force fields.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:43

#23

Subtleti

Yay guns! ^^

It's good to see more alchemer gunning threads out here, instead of the cookie cutter brandish and vog FSC runners. I'm personally a proponent for CTR Gunning [have been since late November], though ASI gunning (as I call it) definitely has it's merits.

Just a couple things to add, while we're on the topic :]

A balanced set to cater to both of these [for the mid-level budgetees] is obtaining CTR Med on all guns, using the Seerus mask, swiftstrike buckler, and ASI poncho [nameless or justifier]. That gives you CTR Max and ASI Max, and leaves trinkets for damage bonus :]. I currently run this set, and eight CTR Med guns [5x alchemers + 3x autoguns] has run me up a tab of 10k CE, not too bad considering what you're getting! Admittedly I use the 1* Seerus mask, since I have no DLC :[, but the resists make it fairly usable in FSC.

In general, I feel that CTR gunning is best used with large, "tank" targets and clusters of mobs (or both) while ASI gunning does exceptionally well against the faster, lighter foes. The charge packs a greater punch when done well, while the quick weapon switching helps nail smaller targets with many light shots while maintaining a degree of mobility. They have very distinct advantages against some monster families, but are equally useful against the mid-level monsters, which neither dodge nor tank exceptionally well. Examples are a bit better here for what I'm talking about, and these are just a few off the top of my head:

CTR:
Packs of zombies!
Lumbers
Gun Puppies
Retrodes

ASI:
Wolvers
Devilites
Kats
Greavers

Both:
Jellies
Gremlins

Using the aforementioned loadout, it's easy to cater to dealing with both types of monsters, and with the same guns! In this sense, it's a very "adaptable" style of gunning.

Great thread otherwise, keep up the good work!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 12:47

#24

Captainofskaia

Gun Ranks

I know probably many of you would disagree with me regarding gun ranks, however, I have ranked the types of guns according to a series of criteria, and I'll give my reasons as well. Rank 1 is the best, where Rank 5 is the worst.

Rank 1 Guns)))))

|Autoguns (Plague Needle; Blitz Needle; Volcanic Pepperbox)|

Positives: These are the top attack weapons for gunners, and for all players. As the highest DPS weapons in the game, they make an obvious choice for Rank 1.
Negatives: after firing, and during firing, you are immobile for extended amounts of time, and after firing you are vulnerable to attack. As such, these monster weapons do not warrant having a rank of their own.

|Alchemers (Hail Driver; Storm Driver; Magma Driver; Umbra Driver; Nova Driver)|

Positives: The perfect balance of damage and mobility, this gun makes an ideal gunner main weapon. On charge, it can also attack from angles outside of the map, as well as attacking backwards, allowing one to attack a trojan from in front. Also has a chance to interrupt on second shot. This is easily the most versatile weapon in the game.
Negatives: Requires specific aiming (no autotarget) in order to max out damage. No knockback.

Rank 2 Guns))))

|Magnus (Iron Slug; Callahan)|

Positives: Very Fast reload, good damage. Very good chance to interrupt every shot. Splash damage as well. extremely well suited to wolvers, devilites, and other fast dodging enemies.
Negatives: Immobile during firing, Vulnerable after charge.

|Pulsar (Supernova; Polaris)|

Positives: Very good knockback, decent damage. more powerful from further distances very good for soloing.
Negatives: knockback often prevents the entire combo from hitting, messes up lineups for alchemer gunners in the party. charge is practically useless, bullets move slowly, so fast dodging enemies can avoid getting hit.

Rank 3 Guns)))

|Blaster (Valiance)|

Positives: Okay Damage, Okay knockback, Normal damage, so it isn't weak to anything.
Negatives: Okay Damage, Okay knockback, Normal damage, so it isn't strong against anything.

Rank 4 Guns))

|Antigua (Argent Peacemaker; Sentenza)
Positives: They pierce through force fields and have decent range.

Negatives: Damage can't compare to that of alchemers or autoguns. There isn't a high enough knockback or chance to interrupt to be compared to the pulsars or magnus, and they don't even have a normal secondary damage to allow them to compare to the valiance. These guns are useful in VERY few situations, and in most situations where they are useful, there is another weapon that would serve the purpose, or even be more useful.

Rank 5 Guns)

|Catalyzer (Neutralizer, Biohazard)

There isn't much I have to say positive about these guns. Their damage doesn't remotely compare to any other rank, they fire slow bullets like the pulsars, but don't have any knockback to speak of. They don't pierce force fields. The only good thing i can think of is that the charge shot knocks down enemies, but takes so much time to DO a decent charge attack, i find i could kill the same enemies with alchemers in a fraction of the time. It is easy to get mobbed by enemies with these guns, and i would generally stay away from them.

As a gunner, you should only ever HAVE to use rank 1 or 2 guns. the rank 3 is good to HAVE, just in case, but not amazing to use. The rank 4-5 guns are frankly not worth the CE/CR it would cost to buy/craft them, so i recommend not dealing with them altogether. All of these guns are great in t1 and t2, but the usefulness of rank 5 ends at the beginning of t3, and the comparative usefulness of rank 4 ends around depth 24 (which is the point at which the rank 1 and 2 guns take off in their versatility).
Thanks,
---
The Captain

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 16:39

#25

Zeddy

Colour me intrigued

I'm intrigued at you ranking Callahan and Polaris the same. Polaris is good against everything (Vanaduke, slags, jellies, Roarmie twins, Jelly King, constructs, utterly destroying LoA, keeping a perimeter in Lockdown, even gremlins since you can keep them continuously dodging or pushed back depending on whether or not you hit). I already like Callahan but I had no idea it was equally versatile and powerful.

In fact, I'd thought of it as being on the exact same rank as Biohazard. Biohazard is pretty good against the enemy types it's suited against (gremlins and slimes are both easy to group together) and so is Callahan (it prevents dodging and interrupt attacks, useful against devilites, wolvers and greavers alike).

Keep in mind, those are the only three guns I have. I'm guessing Biohazard is ranked so low because Umbra Driver's charge attack does more damage against clumps of gremlins and slimes?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:10

#26

Captainofskaia

Answer

Yes. Biohazard is ranked so low, mainly because both umbra and sentenza can outdamage it in COMBOS, not just charges. The callahan is good against anything that CAN flinch. Anything that can flinch, will, and thus places the callahan fairly high up. the magnus category is definitely boosted by Iron slug's normal status. I have actually used iron slug against construct and jelly, as it is pretty useful there.

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The Tactical Gunner: A Guide to a Different Battle Style