So, I was thinking, maybe, we could buy extra Mist Energy space. This way, people can do extra runs without having to use CE. We could purchase extra space with Krogmo tokens or something. It would have to be very expensive, though, and it wouldn't give a lot of extra space. For example, extra 10 ME = 500 krogmo coins or someting. Obviously, this has a lot of flaws in it, so please keep the hate and rage to a maximum! Thanks! :)
Expand Mist Energy
Not a bad idea, especially with the cost per 10 mist. It's definitely something I wouldn't mind (even if I just spent all my Krogmo Coins).
Also, Bluebrawler, after some of the stuff I saw from you, don't even try to poke fun at Shadownox on this idea.
THe downside to it is injecting even MORE crowns into an already oversaturated market. CE would rise more, and i dont think the extra mist would counter it. On the flip side, perhaps if it cost crowns to buy 10 mist counter on a monthly basis... anything to drain crowns from the market.
EDIT: reading what i typed, it seems lockdown does fill that void... 200cr per game, perhaps 150 tokens for a 10 mist counter. Also, mist counter must expire on a monthly or 2 month basis.
This system could work alot like the trinket slots already in the game. there could be a max of 10 slots, which would be unlocked in the same fashion as weapon and trinket slots. the price would be 200CE for a 30-day slot. The "extra mist tanks" would be available for purchase from Sullivan, with different size tanks available for different prices. 10 mist would be 100KC, 20 mist 150KC, 30 mist 200KC, 50 mist 750 KC and finally, 100 mist would be 1000KC. like trinkets, these tanks would be permanently available but only temporarily usable. To prevent the player from having 1100mist, each tank would take up a different amount of slots proportional to how much mist they give, for example a 30 mist tank takes up 3 slots. this way the player is limited to 200 mist, but it is cheaper to buy more mist at a time. I think this would balance the CE prices somewhat b/c of the sheer amount of money invested into LD/BN to make these tanks available, but I'm not a Economist. i might be wrong.
@Bluebrawler
Eff off.
@Pokenuevo
Hello! Don't worry, I don't care about trolls. I just know that they are sad, little trolls, who are all lonely under their bridge.
@Perronius
Yeah, I guess using crowns would work as a crown sink. Although, I hadn't thought of it expiring on a monthly basis. I always thought of it as a forever thing. :P Well, yeah, I guess that would be better. Personally, someone like me wouldn't care, because I usually don't finish my mist everyday anyway.
@Klipik
Exactly. They could be like slots, and, of course, they would have to cost a lot. I like how you're thinking big on those prices xD Then more people would play lots of LD to buy those slots, which would lead to a crown sink. I think. :P
If they cost CROWNS to expand the mist tank, it would actually be doubly good in my mind.
First off: Crownsink. Duh.
Secondly: If we were to be able to use less Crystal on crafting, this would help there be a surplus of it in the market, also helping to drive the price of CE down. That and the demand for Crystal energy might get lower because of this because there are a lot of people who need to buy Crystal to keep playing if they want. Lower demand plus a greater supply means lower prices. Correct?
This is like asking OOO to make all of the colors in the game oppisite. It's never gonna happen. Not a horrible idea. Never gonna hapen. They refuse to damage their wallets unless they're 100% sure they can get back up to speed. Look at lockdown, crownsink right? Decreases CE price? For a while it did, then everyone went all out two tinkets four weapons, and it's now more of a CE sink. OOO is not going to make life easier if it costs them anything. Plus if these did come from LD people would, again, go full out all weapons two trinkets. If they can get an edge using CE, they'll take it.
I'm wondering why have multiple slots? why not just 1 slot and the 'size of the mist expander' varies by which tank you rent.
If theres extra mist energy slots being made, nobody will buy CE due to the fact that people use mist, and CE is stored as permanent. Yes I know, I wished that they would make extra slots, but Spiral Knights needs to make money. And if people buy tons of slots, they would have to wait a few days to get it full.
If it still regenerates at the same speed, that won't make grinding any easier Benightz. You'll make more money with all your mist, but you'll have to wait longer. 15000 crowns per day is the same as 20000 crowns every one and a half days. If you wanted to make money faster you would still have to use CE. The only way this would lower demand for CE is from crafting.
It would take a long time for it to regenerate Orangeo. Mist cannot be traded, thats the problem. If people want to buy mist because mist is cheaper, they can't because Mist is Untradeable. CE is the only way to buy it. True that they will make more money when a mist slot is brought
Um.. Seriously i did post exact same thing along time ago.
You pay so much for a Extra Boost in Mist Tank Size.
10 Mist
50 Mist
You name it!
But the Bigger it is the More it Costs!
I am not sure what i said about price?
Like i said Yonks ago.
7 Mouths maybe...
I got told it would stop People Buying CE and Such.
I was Fairly Anoyed.
but i still stick to the idea!
NOW More than ever.
CE Price has Risen 3.5K Since July 2011 - July 2012.
Benightz, I'm not sure what you're even saying. All I was saying in my post is that 1 mist point regenerates every 13.2 minutes, and if it stays that way then you won't be able to play more even if you have more energy. If you have 120 mist and use it all in one day, You'll still only have have 100 mist the next day because it won't have time to recharge fully. If you wanted to get 200 mist and craft a three star item without CE, you would have to wait two days for your mist to regenerate afterwards.
Talscar, OOO could fix the CE price easialy without this, and they know. The fact that they aren't makes me assume they won't add expansions.
I Agree with ya!
They do know how to fix it, but they wont act on it.
Also a extra big mist tank comes in handy if you plan to go all the way through the Clockworks with a 300 Size mist tank or more.
Their is a Achievement for that but i cant afford to run it.
If i had 300 Mist i would not have to worry about earning CE.
It also makes a big difference when making gear.
And my Mist tank randomly fills up in half-a-day.... Meaning 1 day = 200 mist value.
I dont know if it is a glitch or not but i got 10 minutes between each mist point.
OOO
If mist is expanded then all crafting prices go up by the amount added. If mist goes up to 300E per tank then all crafting prices would raise by 200E. Congratulations, now CE is more expensive.
@ Luguiru
Noone said that. You haven't pointed out any folly in the suggestion, you've just changed it and pointed out a weakness you made up.
If three rings did what you said, and just added 1 CE to the price price for each added mist, that would still be good. Look;
Say you added 800 mist for a total of 9000 mist.
This means 3*'s would take 1000 mist to make.
So you can cover 90% of the cost with only mist.
At the moment, we can only cover 50% of the cost, so this is a 40% improvement.
That means CE would be 40% less valuable.
The less mist you add, the less improvement, and vice versa. I added 800 for the example to get even numbers.
Guys, if spiral kngihts expands mist, but CE becomes more expensive, nobody would buy CE because it would be too expensive. How will Spiral Knights make money and add new features?
@Orangeo: Sorry for my post, I now agree with you
It wouldn't get too expensive if we had more mist. If anything, OOO would make you get more CE per purchase in ratio to the additional mist you had.
When I mean it's 40% less valuable, I meant that there would be 40% less of a demand, ergo 40% lower CE price on the market.
i rather have trinkets trhat expand ME storage.
but, good start shadow
So let me get this straight.
This suggestion is telling me that you want expanded mist and that mist can be traded? Does that mean you guys want mist to be tradeable?
No, no, no.
I clearly stated that we could buy extra ME slots for a very expensive price, for a limited time until the slots expire and you have to buy more. I never said anything about trading the buyable mist, unless, we could trade the slots before using them.
No, not tradeable.
Trinkets would be stupid, trinkets should only be used for combat purposes.
Oh so you want to buy Mist Energy Slots? Sounds clear to me
Because it makes more sense than that other new idea about this.
100 mist tanks are plenty. That 100 mist will earn you 200 CE, if you do Firestorm Citadel.
If it lasts forever, everyone would get them, and it would disrupt the market in a very bad way.
If it's limited, nobody is going to buy it for 500 Krogmo Coins. You can use those 500 Krogmo Coins to buy around 6 Mod Calibrators which can be sold on the Auction House for enough money to buy yourself at least 400 CE, and incase you didn't know, 400 CE is way more valuable than 10 extra mist energy.
Not to mention that in the time it would take you to get 500 Krogmo Coins without boosters, you could have earned like a thousand CE from doing Firestorm Citadel. Krogmo Coins also cost crowns to earn, since every game of Lockdown costs 200 CR to enter, and unless you go on a god-like winning spree, you're going to lose a lot of cash by the time you get 500 Krogmos.
If you are using boosters, you're only going to be losing energy, since it costs 300 CE to buy a single booster.
OOO just gave use Mist Wells. We don't need expanded Mist Tanks in addition. If anything, more ways to earn Mist Tanks (the ones that refill your tank, not these expansions people have been suggesting) would be a good idea, like maybe a Mist Tank could be given as a reward for completing a danger mission or something.
TL;DR: No matter how you work it, it's either going to be very disruptive or completely worthless.
I posted 10 hours after the last person... That's not a necro.
@Psyco:
The only two counter arguments I see is "it'll make CE cost too much" and "it'll make crafting too easy". Keep in mind the posts about CE prices were before we had that big GH crown sink, which is enough to absorb most of the initial blow. This only leaves the crafting/buying Supply Depot items cost, which can also be easily solved. How? Make crafting only able to be done with the first 100 mist, maybe with an excuse like “more than 100 mist was not meant to be stored in the same tank, so the rest is unstable and not suitable for crafting. Insert only into elevators, please.” To explain this, instead of the Mist bar simply increasing to 200, It would have the initial 100 and a separate bar for the second 100 ME. The first bar would be the normal bar, usable for everything that ME is normally used for. The second bar would be the “expanded” bar, but the ME in it could only be used for elevator costs. Capping mist at 200 also prevents running the entire clockworks without buying any CE, unless it somehow takes you so long to get down to the core that you accumulate 70 CE along the way. For the Supply Depot, make items only purchasable with CE. If they’re not like that already, they should be.
@Laraso:
Did you read my post? I said the tank expansions themselves should be permanent, but you would need to purchase slots to use them. The slots would cost 200-250 CE, like Weapon and Trinket slots, and also like said slots would expire every 30 days. I explained the rest of it already - read that post.
New stuff: Concept art!
Idea for what expanded mist tanks would look like
No. I didn't read your post. I only read the original post, you know, the one made by the guy who started this suggestion.
Regardless, we don't need this. Spending energy to get potential energy is stupid. 100 mist is fine.
Am I getting it right? 250 ce a month for 10 extra mist per day? (10 mist that may not ever fill if you play too often anyways)
Thats with just 10. Say I buy 100 extra mist (200 total with original tank). I'd have to stop playing the game for at least 2 days(*) for them to fill up at normal rate.
If i don't play that often I may as well forget about it and use raw CE instead of wasting it into maintaining those slots.
Does the benefit justify all the required coding and UI tweaks? Is it really a benefit or a trap to throw away your money?
It only seems to work on very specific conditions.
Sigh, I'd rather stick with the mechanic of Mist Wells on GH.
*Unless you mean each tank is independent and they all fill at the same time and not one after the other.
In such case, you're not just expanding mist but techncially doubling or multiplying recharge rates.
@Laraso: we don't needit, but it would be nice. Maybe after the next big content update - whatever that will be.
@Juances: Yes, everything you said is correct. Mist still regenerates at 1/13.2mins, and fills up one tank at a time. But no, its not a trap to throw away your money - it's a much less efficient Elevator Pass for people who don't want to pay real-world money. And before you say it'll cut into Ele Pass sales, it won't - the only people who would buy it wouldn't but an ele pass anyway, because anyone who is willing to buy an ele pass now will still be willing to buy one after. This is way too inefficient to be comprable to a Pass.
@Benightz: I necroed it. My post says why.
EDIT: @Shadownox - please update your OP.
"Keep in mind the posts about CE prices were before we had that big GH crown sink, which is enough to absorb most of the initial blow."
No, it wouldn't. It's gone as far as it's going to, otherwise CE would have sunk further than 6K. It dropped the market down from it's 9K heights because of the immense demand for cr, but that being gone, the market is now stable. Any rises will just be stabilized, not absorbed.
"To explain this, instead of the Mist bar simply increasing to 200, It would have the initial 100 and a separate bar for the second 100 ME. The first bar would be the normal bar, usable for everything that ME is normally used for. The second bar would be the “expanded” bar, but the ME in it could only be used for elevator costs. Capping mist at 200 also prevents running the entire clockworks without buying any CE,"
First off, you can't limit the use of 'e' to any just one thing. It's wouldn't be energy otherwise.
Second, if you could, it would still be a no in two ways:
1) You're giving more 'grindable' energy. Already at 100mist, a player can generate roughly 8Kcr. Double that, and you have 16K. Considering all the rich-as-hell players will be the first to get them, and they're usually the ones who spend the most time grinding anyway, that's a lot of extra cr we don't need flooding the market.
2) The second tank will regenerate in it's own time. Even if you used up everything, you could still do a run on your first tank, then another on your second tank later. A standard run takes roughly 2 hours, and that doesn't even use up all your mist. With the extra tank, you get about 4 hours of FREE play; Instead of forcing players to decide and manage their time, mist, and make decisions on what to spend their energy on, you're giving them longer play hours, less need for decisions, so they can just romp around and do what they want, when they want.
How is that a bad thing, you ask?
For starters, you get more people in SK not thinking. They don't need to make decisions, so they'll just do whatever they want. It'll also decrease the need for ce reviving, considering they can just use their mist to cover it, for like, 3 revs. Each.
The market-blah, less demand for ce-blah market get's shot to hell, floodload of cr blah.
Not to mention that by 'less demand for ce', I mean less demand to BUY ce with cash, like OOO wants players to do. They don't need it; they aren't feeling the confines of a 100me budget, so they aren't going to get it.
Then extrapolate the effects of having anything more than 200me. See where it's all gong? That's right, all to Firestorm, in more than one way.
if you could only use the extra mist for clockworks runs(and reviving), it's not really that useful. I think you misunderstood - having 200 mist regenerates at the same rate as having 100 mist, which means it takes twice as long. That means that you could only do 4 vana runs a day if you only played once every two days.
"I think you misunderstood - having 200 mist regenerates at the same rate as having 100 mist, which means it takes twice as long."
I accounted for that already. Considering a standard 'play session' is 2 hours, then once you finish that session, you can move on with your life, and come back to play later in the day. It give players the flexibility of play-hours; they no longer have to try and organize their own mist usage.
"if you could only use the extra mist for clockworks runs(and reviving), it's not really that useful."
'Not useful'? Where have you been in the history of everything SK? You use mist to run the CW, and get cr. With this, you can get exponential increases in the amount of cr you can get. No mist wasteage means you can capitalize every drop of mist you'll ever get.
Use crafting mist(Original tank) to craft, then use the rest to grind the Firestorm out of...Firestorm. Got your gear, and made your profit, all in the same day.
It's mindbogglingly broken, this system.
The NecroinG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...Other than that, I'd +1 the idea. But that would mean extending time needed to recharge energy.
Still No
What do you get when you have 200 ME?
An auction house flooded with 3 star gears and trinket slots. You basically crashed 1/4 of the market.
Oh so what? You take 2 days to get 200 energy, sure, i wouldn't mind letting my alternate sit for 2 days.
"keep the hate and rage to a maximum"
Doing it right.
Unless depot prices change, no more than 140E total.