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Make ALL Rank Missions non-repeatable

21 replies [Last post]
Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:24
Flaame's picture
Flaame

Three Rings,

Making this possible would give people more variety and incentive to delve into the actual clockworks. The Prestige Missions being an exception to this rule.

Missions like the Sovereign Slime or the King of Ashes are some missions that the general bulk of the community like to farm and grind for Heat or Crowns. Making missions like these non-repeatable will resolve some complains from people about the arcade now becoming useless. People will have to make use of strategy of which gate and tier will yield the most profits.

Yes, I'm sure people will be angered by this suggestion as they only like to farm for heat and crowns alike, but consider the fact that this game was made to be played with strategy and how the Developers intended for the game to be played. By only doing the Rank missions, there is a major neglect on the arcade that Three Rings has put an immense amount of time on.

The only reason people go into the arcade nowadays are either for Shadow Lair missions, depositing minerals, or trading in their Krogmo Coins.

Plus, lonely Basil will finally have some company for the first time in a while. <3

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:29
#1
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
+1 People will go "AMG AMG

+1

People will go "AMG AMG NOOOOOHHH NOOOOHH"

But they don't truly realiz/se how dumbed down this game has become because of missions.

I play this game on the planet CRADLE as it was originally INTENDED to be, NOT ON THE PLANET MISSION LAND!!!!!

+1,000,000, great suggestion.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:29
#2
Theopholis's picture
Theopholis

I also want missions to be unfarmable, but I still want to be able to help a friend through the Return of Ur, or King of Ashes when they finally get there.

Personally, I prefer to run clockworks. It's funner, more varied, and interesting. But the payout sucks.

There should be a repeat mission charge, rather than limit.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:33
#3
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
The charge of crowns to

The charge of crowns to repeat a mission would be extremely screwy and people would ignore it anyways, assuming they would still profit the most from King of Ashes.

We have to just completely make all missions unplayable to truly solve the terribly-dumbed-down-game issue.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:30
#4
Verodius's picture
Verodius
I agree for the most part but...

The missions that have no Arcade equivalent (such as 'The Silent Legion') should still be repeatable simply because of how unique they are.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:35
#5
Tohru-Adachi's picture
Tohru-Adachi
Adding to Vero's idea,

and the chatting missions.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 22:21
#6
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl
Boop

Boop

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 21:32
#7
Kive's picture
Kive
-1

I get what you're saying but if you make all rank missions non repeatable than half the games content is cut. YOU just can't justify that, no matter how much you think it will help the economy or revive the arcade

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 23:30
#8
Autofire's picture
Autofire
Oh no, don't limit it like that.

You see, as Kive said, you are cutting out much of the game doing that. I think you should edit your suggestion so that missions are replayable, but the players who are replaying them don't get anything whatsoever, aside from negative energy used up on the elevators. This would allow for help friends with a level they are stuck on.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 02:51
#9
Kellnox's picture
Kellnox
+0?

"Making missions like these non-repeatable will resolve some complains from people about the arcade now becoming useless." Making missions like these non-repeatable will create complaints from everyone about how they have to spend all their energy on one FSC run, as opposed to spending it on three of the mission version. I like the arcade, don't get me wrong, and I think it's sad about how few people go in. Maybe they should add something more exclusive? I mean, equipment drops are already more common in the Clockworks, so maybe do something like that again.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 11:46
#10
Ewbte's picture
Ewbte
I agree with Kive about

I agree with Kive about missed content, unique story lvls etc.

Maybe it's better to make them repeatable only once a day? The ability to repeat could come in same time with a daily missions for example.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 12:47
#11
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar
SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS

Give the missions a lower payout, or make them cost more energy if you've done them before, x1.5 or x2 energy. (Pass-holders would have to pay 5 energy to run a mission they'd already done.)

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 13:41
#12
Pdtopgun's picture
Pdtopgun
Honestly, even making just

Honestly, even making just the boss missions non-repeatable would go a long way towards fixing things, since they're the only ones that are farmed now anyway. To let you help a friend who's having trouble getting through one of them, maybe you could be able to pay a significant crown fee up-front, or else get only half the collected crowns during the run; you'd also have to be on the friends list of whoever you were running with.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 19:10
#13
Havenihaveaproblem's picture
Havenihaveaproblem
Make Arcade more competitive vs. Missions

Problem

You might think that you cut out a lot of content by removing repeated access to missions, but actually I think missions cut out game content. If you run through the arcade, you have a chance to see tons of different kinds of enemies and levels. This is the hard work of OOO to design all these various levels and monsters, which keep the game interesting and are only available in arcade.

What missions are worth repeating? The boss ones, of course! These are the only ones that are repeated (barring helping a lower star friend). In these missions, you see the SAME levels over and over; effectively, you have cut out all the other variety of enemies and missions from the game.

Boss missions will always be preferable because they are easy access to the deepest depths of a tier, where the most crowns can be earned, and they offer the opportunity to earn boss tokens. But you are missing out on a lot of the content that Spiral Knights has to offer, and players lose out on the experience of Spiral Knights. As bad as missions might taste when you have done them 100 times, in practical terms OOO seems satisfied with the economy that has come out of it. Rather than try to fix what isn't broken, namely missions, we should make the arcade more competitive so that it is a viable alternative to missions.

Idea

The arcade should offer scaling bonus crowns for completing consecutive levels. The bonus might scale, for example, as 20/50/100, increasing as you complete consecutive depths with a cap at 100. These numbers may be multiplied by the stratum number you are in. The first level you complete receives the bonus 20 factor, so by the third depth you are receiving full value.

Additionally, the gradient in income between the uppermost and lowest depths in a tier should be narrowed. In T2, you earn about 25-30% in depth 9 of what you can earn in depths 16-17. This value should be at least 50%. This way, you can still play arcade and potentially profit from the upper depths (with the inclusion of bonus crowns for consecutive levels), even if you don't have a full tank of energy. Without this, even with bonus crowns, it becomes more efficient to run missions at deeper depths than start at the highest depths and work your way down.

Ideally, you are rewarded for lasting longer in the arcade, and, for a given amount of energy, you earn potentially more crowns for your energy if you can last, say, 4 depths and not revive. At this point, repeating missions becomes worthwhile if you are farming boss tokens, while arcade is preferable for earning crowns. I think this would make a great balance between the two, and it circumvents restrictions on mission-play that might frustrate players in possibly unpredictable ways.

Example math

JK runs net you probably an average of ~2300 CR for 3 levels. If you were to do the same with this system in the arcade, remembering that JK is in the 4th stratum so you multiply bonuses by 4, you would earn:

2300+4*(20+50+100) = 2980 Crowns for depths 15-17 (Compare to ~2000 for running only depths 15-16 on a JK run, the crowns:energy ratio is equal).

At depths 9-11, you would probably earn something like:

1200+3*(20+50+100) = 1710 crowns.

For all of tier 2, assuming you can complete it, you might earn:

~5000+3*(20+50+100+100)+4*(100+100+100+100) = 5000+810+1600 = 7410. (crossroads don't apply the bonus)

I dunno the values can be adjusted (perhaps multiplication by tier is more appropriate than by stratum), but in principle I think it presents a possible solution to the stagnation of the game caused by repeatable missions. Remember that each time you die and revive, your ratio of crowns earned vs. energy spent goes down, so completing an entire tier with a favorable profit isn't necessarily easy.

OOPS
I just realized while rereading this that, if you do mission 5-2 JK runs, and you only do depths 15-16, you earn about 2000 crowns for 20 energy. An entire tier takes 80 energy. In other words, the entire tier needs to reward at least 8000 crowns to break even with the mission reward. So my scaling might need a 4th factor - say 150, which brings up the total reward for tier 2 to 8360 - and maybe a fifth because in order to make it worthwhile players should earn ~10000 if they can last all of tier 2. Just consider, at a rate of 10000 crowns for completing all of tier 2, if you revive more than twice in trying to beat tier 2, you actually lose money. I also estimated the 5000 crowns base profit, so that number could be off. I am too tired to mess around with it anymore, right now, but I would probably make it a 4 scale system and raise the value of all the factors so it adds up to 9500-10k for the entire tier, assuming 5000 crowns base reward is correct.

Additional Notes

I have let the bonus scale only 3 times, so that players are not discouraged from joining parties that are already halfway through a tier. If it scaled, say, 4 or 5 times, there would be little incentive to join any party partially through a tier because you wouldn't have much time to reap the benefits of a maximum reward. Alternatively, OOO might be interested in discouraging people from joining partway through a tier, to force a party to rely on its own energy for revives alone. Perhaps a 4 scale system would be better, although I think it's worthwhile to allow players with less than 50 mist energy to go adventuring and not feel they are shortchanging themselves because they can't play at the full bonus cap.

I prefer a scaling bonus over a flat bonus for 2 reasons.

1. You cannot die, give up, and just start over. This forces you to consider reviving and challenges you to delve deeper rather than "bursting" 2-3 depths at a time.

2. The purpose of these changes is to force players to experience more of the arcade and not just boss runs. If you have a flat bonus, what incentive is there to play upper depths when you can just join a party that is just reaching FSC/JK/IMF in the arcade and maximize your crown gains?

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 19:39
#14
Juances's picture
Juances
~

So if I have a friend that needs help on an old mission i wont be able to do anything?

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 19:42
#15
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Coexistence is a more plausible idea, why shoot for one when you can have both?

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 19:31
#16
Lordelie's picture
Lordelie
stupid

Man really make missions unrepeatble or non profitable, well it kills the arcade but I mean no cr from repeating sucks think about it that would be annoying and look at ce prices today it would be unpractical.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 22:46
#17
Lunaice's picture
Lunaice
DERP!

What Doctorspacebar said.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 07:19
#18
Frederick's picture
Frederick
+OVER9000!!!!

Totally agree, i remembered the triple arenas before vana when the arcade was still popular, people actually hang out on the arcade forming parties, now arcade is just some kind of an abandoned warehouse.

Sun, 07/15/2012 - 20:31
#19
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar
SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS

Haven's scaling bonus idea is actually pretty smart. Would this mean extra reward (per floor) for descending from Depth 0 all the way to Depth 29?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 00:26
#20
Sppw's picture
Sppw
+3/4

Beware Small wall of text not only is it about the missions + some more Ideas to keep arcade more fun.Will be creating a copy of this in General discussions too

Missions

This has got the GENERAL idea but to help somebody on missions in t1 means a fee of 300cr to join them and they have to be your friend/guild.t2 like wise could be 600 cr to HELP and 850 cr to HELP for t3.

Prestige Missions

Prestige missions playable ONCE per day only. Once per mission per day.Or else elevator pass usres would Spam LoA all day creating more problems.If you fail the prestige mission you cannot replay or again elevator passers will abuse by dying to the last enemy on the last spawn letting them replay forever also that coukld be abused by non pass users but not forever.

Arcade

Arcade costs cut to:
50 cr for t1
150 cr for t2
400 cr for t3

Also a light amount of prestige per level in arcade 10 prestige for t1 per level.t2 has 15 prestige per level. t3 has 25 prestige per level

Boss Stratums

Silent legion should be added into t3 as one of those "toxilargo-type" missions.
And also the long waited arrival of Operation Crimson Hammer!(you can only get the Dark Retribution and the WRH and 3* and 1* versions with tokens you get after beating him 15 tokens for 1* 25 for 3* 40 for 5*)for Seerus mask you have to buy expansion and for t2,t1 masks you need to buy expansion.

Boss stratums also get prestige
Snarbolax:20 prestige per depth 35 for boss depth
RJP/IMF: 30 prestige per depth 45 for boss depth
FSC/OCH:40 prestige per depth 60 for boss

Silent legion:30 prestige for 1st depth Arkus has 40 prestige for defeating him And Arkus drops 1 almirian seal
Toxilargo:25 prestige for 2 depths 35 for boss depth drops 1 jelly gem too
Razwog:level before boss have 15 prestige Boss has 25 prestige drops 1 OCH token and 1 RT token
Also pre-boss stratums include silent legion(t3),Toxilargo(t2),Razwog(t1)(start a mistalt to learn who he is in the first few missions)
For example

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 (bold numbers are active gates) The gates Repeat forever BUT the other stratums are chosen by minerals/disruptions

1:Snarby
2:Silent legion
3:FSC
4:RT
5:Razwog
6:Toxilargo
7:JK
8:OCH

those are the elevators and boss/pre-boss stratums together

¬ Sppw

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 06:44
#21
Poizonedblack's picture
Poizonedblack
really!!

umm... no offense intended to anyone but majority of knights admire the mission system (yes because of boss farming). We shouldn't force our opinions into others' games its just not fair cuz many people have already ranked up like crazy because of this mission system. it takes an anverage party 1 hour to do FSC but with the all annoying arcade mode itll take a helluva lot more time not to mention the rev costs!
Yes there is another way of reviving the arcade and still keep the repeatable missions up and running.Probably introduce larger payouts through arcade or introduce arcade only recipies like the pulsars. Maybe even make the arcade a bit harder. Let weaker knights learn their way up.....
Again no offense intended to anyone..

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