Spiral Knights - Manipulating gear to make the tier 3 Compound 42 a cakewalk (immunity to oil). Please read devs.

Manipulating gear to make the tier 3 Compound 42 a cakewalk (immunity to oil). Please read devs.

28 replies [Last post]

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 22:09

The-Rawrcake

We can all agree without using this tactic that there is too much oil and the oiler dashes are unavoidable which make us die and get absolutely slaughtered..... but.......

If you wear a dragon scale helm and dragon scale mail + a pure white laurel + soaking whetstone, the oil dropped by monsters will do absolutely nothing to you. No fire. No poison.

I used this and went through the levels extremely easily. I dies three times because there is so much fired oil that I cannot see the oilers and they do this spin melee attack thing which has a giant range and I did in fact die due to this a few times, but.... still. Other than that, it was WAY too easy and way too fast with these trinkets paired with dragon scale.

Yah it needs fixing.

Sorry to those who I was complaining to, I was unknowingly wearing the laurel when I was immune to oil poison.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 23:53

The-Rawrcake

Changed title because I need

[edit]

I highly suggest making the fire from the oil stronger so that it cannot be completely taken out with certain gear combos, and to compliment this fix, nerf the amount of oil that the oilers drop (especially on the charges so it is avoidable).

I then suggest to keep it how it is currently with the 2 pieces of poison resistance armor + white laurel to make the player immune to poison from dropped oil. this way, Pure White Laurel now has a use :3

Sorry for spamming this forum with posts, but i guess getting these issues fixed is the whole purpose of it.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 02:12

Sypsy

I did a few rolls at punch.

Dragon scale set + poison low uv + fire high uv = immune to fire & poison from the oil

I wasn't expecting a poison low to be adequate, but what do you know. This means you would only need a fire low too, but i wasn't about to roll over the fire high. Someone else can test it.

Either way, this frees up two trinket slots for other stuff. It also makes the mission less.... frustrating.

What's frustrating is that you need a very specific set + uv's/trinkets to make the mission doable.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 05:26

Milkman

And you don't think that some

And you don't think that some of the hardest content in the game should require having adequate gear?

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 09:07

The-Rawrcake

I believe it should require

I believe it should require certain gear since it is the most difficult content in the game, but most people would totally overlook the fact that these trinkets that nobody ever uses literally are the one thing that makes the content doable (or UVs, but same deal). They have made the bars confuse people in a way that having 2 pieces of armor that give half of the bar = the bar filled. But apparently resistance helps us past the filled bar.

How would we know that we are supposed to be using the trinket that gives us resistance past the bar even shows?

We would know because we go to the forums where people are discussing this most likely. The issue with this, is that only the very minority of this game go to the forums. I wrote before that maybe it'd be cool if it gave uses to these trinkets or some UVs that people otherwise thought were useless, but when I look at it again it is a mechanic of the game that most people would just overlook. The majority (not everyone) would walk into the mission without the adequate gear unknowingly.

It also makes this danger mission too easy if you are immune to the fire from the lit oil as it is currently. The strength of the fire should be increased so that you cannot get rid of it with any gear combination, and of course the amount of oil there is currently needs to be nerfed.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 09:56

Sypsy

@Milkman

For C42, adequate = one specific set in this case.

Being adequately prepared to tackle any T3 level usually involves having a set for shadow, elemental and pierce def, each. It may not be optimal, but at least you know you won't be destroyed in two hits.

But in this case, you need a very specific set to survive. Can you use a vog/skolver hybrid? Nameless/justifier combo? What about your volcanic salamander/deadly virulisk? Nope. Even the last one sounds good in theory because it grants you vh slime damage, poison and fire def.

Ignoring ideal multi uv's (like max fire/poison on the last set mentioned), these sets will not be adequate to tackle C42.

Even the people who are like "yay, i have a dragon scale set! Finally a use for them!" have to go role on them to get UV's or, farm 100 forge and grim tokens each to get the new trinkets, if they don't already have them.

I'm all for "building an optimal set" to tackle a danger mission, ppl do it all the time for vana. But at least when you're not in the optimal set, you could still finish vana. For C42 as it is, non-optimal is not an reasonable option.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 15:26

Realnight

Changed my life

Going through again now with immunity and it's so much easier. I like the dynamic where you really have to think what you are immune to and what you aren't - and the focus on defensive gear instead of offensive is a welcome change.

But I have a feeling the final bosses are going to be way too easy now - as they were easy before if you could make it to them.

I would prefer they decrease the immunity level to only 8 points each but add more red fire - or make the red fire stronger. That would make it more obvious to non-forum goers how to gain immunity (and open the gear options a bit) but add the danger of having to still avoid red fire. You'll have to really pay attention to where you can and can't walk.

But can we please make all the fire shorter (as in height) so I can see things.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 10:46

Kitty-Softpaws

And you don't think that some

And you don't think that some of the hardest content in the game should require having adequate gear?

But guys, this is just like saying you'll be carrying Shivermist Buster in FSC or Legion of Almire/in hard content. And besides, it's not like everyone's going to craft that gear. It's not a NEED to get it but more of a WANT. I've said it many times, I use Chaos Cloak and I handle myself quite nicely in Compound 42. The only problem I have is the oil dropping right on me after killing the oilers because other than that, I could easily do that level without any deaths almost.

If the amount of oil was reduce or if it was fixed on where the oil should drop, MAJORITY of the difficulty of this mission will surely be removed I am telling you this. A player like me who can use Chaos Cloak there has almost no problems clearing that level & even when it was just my first time there IF the oil was nerfed. About almost all of my deaths were because of the oil dropping on me from killing oilers in melee range. I also had trouble in other places but most of the troublesomeness is from the oil & the trap rooms. If it wasn't for my quick charge attacks, I'd probably would have done worst. Being cornered from the oil & having to fight those turret polyps along with oilers in small rooms with lots of traps sure made me wet my tight little undies.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 10:51

Aquajag

I was using full Deadly

I was using full Deadly virulisk and still was on poison for 4 seconds.

I agree with Kitty-Softpaws, the difficulty is largly forced by the way the poison drops. If that was nerfed just a touch, then this would be hard levels that could be handled. Right now, the way the poison drops magically all over, you're pretty well screwed.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 10:54

Iapnez

Softpaws, you need to play

Softpaws, you need to play the Tier 3 version of the mission. There's too much poison oil when the oilers do their dash attack.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 11:13

#10

The-Rawrcake

The main issue is the fact

The main issue is the fact that it will become way too easy with dragon scale + a poison / fire low UV or + poison / fire trinkets.

It will be not what it is intended.

Oil is intended to do something to us and is intended to be avoided; however, we really need to simply reduce the amount of oil, specifically we need to not allow the oiler charges to drop oil ontop of us being unavoidable.

Perhaps turn graphics down to low? I Imagine taht would reduce the amount of fire clogging your screen like it does to shadowfire / magma / whatever the heck people are calling it in FSC.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 16:54

#11

The-Rawrcake

Changed title to match the

Changed title to match the thread a bit more.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 17:31

#12

Goofio

I tried T3 again with this

I tried T3 again with this new information. My previous runs all ended up requiring 1000 CE revives (in groups, too). I soloed T3 with:

Deadly Virulisk Mask (Fire High UV)
Dragon Scale Mail (Poison Low UV)
Barbarous Thorn Shield

Penta-Heart Pendant
Soaking Wetstone Pendant

It was much easier with the immunity this gear provided. I think I was even able to walk through Gremlin Scorcher flames on the first depth. I died 3 times through the mission, mostly due to the jelly spin attack that flings spikes in several directions. I would say that with this loadout, this mission is easier than Legion of Almire.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 18:19

#13

The-Rawrcake

BINGO We hear it again ding

BINGO

We hear it again

ding ding ding

We need the devs to reduce the range of the oiler spin melee attack as it is hard to see them in the flames :3

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 20:04

#14

Trying

They have

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 20:29

#15

Lostillusion

To expand on what Hector said:
"- fixed a bug where oilgels spin attack was damaging a very large area"
They don't snipe you across the room anymore, which is pretty nice.

"- fixed a bug where polyps could keep spawning oilgels"
"- widened some play spaces in the second level"
Between these two, I was able to stay out of the oil for most of my last run-through. Most of the time I spent in it was when I was dashed.

I'd also like to point out that "adequate" in this case in not Poison/Fire immunity. it's just Fire immunity. Most people should already have a set of fire resistant armor for FSC and a low uv/ one trinket is not too much to ask for. Even the 2* trinket (5 sparks) is enough to give that.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 20:21

#16

Kitty-Softpaws

Now the issue here is why

Now the issue here is why work so hard on getting that type of gear just to do a mission that won't really make me feel too good about because there's not much to look forward to except boosting my morale of how epic I'll/you'll be when you accomplish it. So in order to do this fun mission, I need to prep myself with a lot of hefty resistant armor that'll make this depth easier for me but again, there's nothing special at the end of this mission so we shouldn't be doing that! Payout isn't like freaking 10k & it's not like I'm getting tokens for doing fun content. To do this bad arsze fun mission, I'm going in my favorite 5 star gear and going to use teamplay tactics with my strong powerful friends like a boss! Hey you party member 2, you'll be the one holding aggro on those oilers because you have a nice shield with nice resist & a nice armor while me & party member 4 will take out those turrets.

A suggestion for Compound 42 changes:
In Tier 3, the only thing I see that needs to be changed is that the trap rooms need to be BIGGER. We need MORE SPACE to move around. The amount of oil+the amount of oilers+turrets+ them all litting on fire in a very small room is not going to be manageable in solo nor in a full party. If those oilers are going to be moving that fast and can slip oil on the ground like that when they move then we definitely need more space to fight them.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 21:03

#17

Elpeo-Kasshu

The main problem seems to be

The main problem seems to be the oil, the source of the "danger". If it's nerfed too much, the level is too easu, if left as is, too hard. There needs to be somthing other than the oil to add diffuculty. Also, that spin attack has more range than it should. Get rid of the projectiles if it has that much range.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 10:45

#18

The-Rawrcake

I just think that oiler

I just think that oiler charges should drop some oil on the way towards you but stop dropping oil at a certain point to make it at least a little bit avoidable.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 11:56

#19

Kitty-Softpaws

After playing Compound 42 for

After playing Compound 42 for the third time, I have a better analysis of it. (i've only been playing the first depths since it's time consuming). The toxic-oilers aren't as dangerous as I thought they were. They just slime around slipping oil & attack by shooting needles. The oil just poisons the player but if it catches on fire then it can be a hazardous threat. Being immune to poison or having lots of poison resist is definitely the best tactic here. Otherwise, it'll just be players retreating to fight the oilers in a better footing. If you do not carry poison resist, then the few viable methods of fighting oilers as a swordie or a gunner is to run away from them and get a better footing where you can see them at a good angle & you'll be waiting for them to come for you so you can attack them. This isn't really fun since majority of the enemy are oilers and it takes a lot of time to defeat these guys. Being poisoned constantly is a big drag to fight them with other enemies in the room with all of that oil on the ground. We'll be poisoned majority of the time.

This mission will be very boring if you play it solo without the poison resistance or if you're the type to not want to walk over the oil. I've decided to walk over the oil and get poisoned and fight my way through the mission that way. It may be funner in parties.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 12:36

#20

The-Rawrcake

I also have a different

I also have a different analysis, mainly due to the update which fixed the ridiculousness of the oiler melee attack.

If the devs were to ever nerf the oilers, it is only to be like one tiny little blotch of oil less on the charge.

In other words, they really do not need to nerf anything.

Only buff the second level, since I found it easier than the first except for that awesome room with the three switches.

I went through the entire mission without abusing this stupid immunity thing following the update, and it was not overly difficult at all. The first level was challenging and just where it should be, however the second level needs to be more difficult to make it make more sense.

____________________________

"I'd also like to point out that "adequate" in this case in not Poison/Fire immunity. it's just Fire immunity. Most people should already have a set of fire resistant armor for FSC and a low uv/ one trinket is not too much to ask for. Even the 2* trinket (5 sparks) is enough to give that."

I don't believe that adequate gear for this mission has anything to do FSC. At all. They are two separate missions and should demand two separate sets of gear.

In fact, NONE of this should adequate, because being immune to oil is just abusing a mechanic that makes the mission way too easy.

I do hope the devs fix this in some way.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 13:03

#21

Kitty-Softpaws

Well what I think would make

Well what I think would make it fun(this is my opinion) is that the toxic-oilers stay the same but let's get rid of this toxic oil and just leave it as oil in general? Just something that can't statusly harm us unless provoked. Compared to LoA, Compound 42 is extremely difficult because of the status affects & LoA just isn't in any comparison to this status hell-hole. It would be funner if those lions(oilers) did melee range constantly. The only thing I think should change is that the oil becomes OIL OIL. I'd like to walk on top of it without any worries of being poisoned. And the toxic-oilers should do both melee range constantly, shoot needles constantly, & also have that fast movement speed where they can slime around & in front of us. With lots of them spawning, it would be very fun. Turrets would be our main goal to get first because they would spawn the oilers and oilers in groups would be the highest threat along with the scorcher gremlins and the fire traps. Oilers that shoot needles and can slime-speed their way behind us and attack in melee. That sounds very very fun. Compound 42 is hard, yes but not hard-funish type. But that's just my opinion ~ LoA is way funner for me atm.

@ Rawrcare
mmmm... i c.. so we'll have missions that will require a certain defensive-type & resistant-type gear. It's more of a need now than a want.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 12:50

#22

The-Rawrcake

I disagree strongly. The

I disagree strongly.

The point of this is making Dragon Scale effective, in fact even more effective than Wolver defensively for once. If we got rid of the poison from the oil, it wouldn't be that way and people would go derp FSC gear 4 hear gaiz.

The reason we are constantly getting poisoned and such is because Oilgels are reckless little beasts. They even poison and fire their gremlin allies, which balances out their recklessness for us in a unique way.

I don't think they need to nerf the oil directly, if at all, they would just simply reduce the amount SLIGHTLY as the following update balanced out the content and it doesn't need to be nerfed.

I believe if anything we are in need of buffing this place to make piercing defense more necessary: make the Oilgels more aggressive with their spin attack but also don't nerf the poison oil; keep it as it is.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 16:31

#23

Gianor

:DDD

Finally, a place where Dragon Scale is actually useful and wolver shines dimmer!

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 17:27

#24

Lostillusion

No.

The poison absolutely has to stay. That's the defining feature of this mission, by far.

As for the fire-immunity, I don't see why forcing the player to constantly take damage in a game where not taking damage is key to success is a good idea, less so when you aren't allowed to heal at the same time. Almost every feedback mentions massive revive costs, or fire-immunity. There is a way to make this mission a challenge without depending on timed lives. In fact it opens up room for legitimately upping the difficulty, instead of just adding frustration.

I could see removing the poison immunity, though.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 21:08

#25

The-Rawrcake

The feedback when people had

The feedback when people had massive revives was before the update.

You don't take constant fire damage if you kite + keep the Oilgels from getting lit. You keep the oilgels from getting lit by focus firing the Gremlin Scorchers and kiting the Oilgels away from any fire source of any sort.

Oilgels are intended to be reckless and try to get you statused, because they also kill their gremlin allies by lighting them on fire + poisoning them as well.

Sun, 07/15/2012 - 08:29

#26

Obsidious

Just to add something to Rawrcake's post

While I normally don't like to bring it with me a lot, shivermist is incredibly helpful that it warrants me to do so. Granted, the oilers can sometimes re-light themselves, but over all it helps immensely with both the fire and keeping them off you. Even then, they're still troublesome, but only so if your team isn't doing the right thing.

I also agree on the fact that the status immunity is kinda stupid; granted, it's not something that all players are going to realize or have the equipment to do, but still....

Finally, having fought the boss section myself, I can certainly say that it needs buffing. The giant scorchers are cool and all, but all they seem to do is use single flamer thrower attach; I barely saw them do anything else, maybe a flame wave I've missed. Considering that they do have two flamethrowers, one idea is that one of their attacks will create a V flame pattern in front of them, which can trapped players caught in between and hinder movement; this can synergize well with the oilgels.

Synergize is something that comes to mind in this last section of the mission actually, because I get the feeling that both the big scorcher and Toxilargo oiler go well with one another, at least SHOULD. You just don't want them to mix, especially in the midst of a fight, as it could make you're life literally hell.

Thinking about it, the oil patch can create a much more prominent fire wall. Both can help each other with some form of area denial, while the toxi largo attacks very aggressively with a dash, and any fire can melt free long enough for it do this.

Another attack idea is that the Scorcher's flame thrower could snake out, like a t3 Red rover, in two streams, each targeting a player individually. And another could be a very swift and powerful flame thrower, where the flame races across much faster than normal and stays longer. Merely brainstorming ideas to give these mini boss better variety.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 23:35

#27

Sir-Alfred

/epicfail

When I first went on this mission when I logged on this morning, the 4 man team I was in all died in the first room where you first face the oilers. The entire floor was covered in that oily fire combo and we got slaughtered by the super fast oiler attack and polyp spamming attack. we couldn't even see where the stupid oilers were, they blend in so well with the fire/poison spamming!

Guess it's time to go get me some dragon scale armour :o

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 03:45

#28

Sonicmega

Regarding all the Set/Immunity Comments

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/63488

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Manipulating gear to make the tier 3 Compound 42 a cakewalk (immunity to oil). Please read devs.