Spiral Knights - Another 'should i get this wep or that wep' thread

Another 'should i get this wep or that wep' thread

11 Réponses [Dernière contribution]

dim, 07/15/2012 - 05:21

Pherro

Hello forumgoers.

I was trundling along in the Clockworks when I was overcome by the overpowering urge to smash something. And by smash something, i mean SMASH things. I was lucky enough to pick up a Troika, and couldn't be happier with the effects of that charge attack. Very therapeutic, I highly recommend it. Unfortunately, my lack of experience with this line leaves me with a quandary. After asking various people and getting lots of contradictory speculation, I decided to put the question squarely in your capable hands:

Triglav or Sudaruska?

A little background: Yes, i know the sealed sword line usually has better dps. I have those, but i want to really hit things. Second, access isn't a problem: I have enough cr and Krogmo coins for each recipe line. Third, it might be useful to note that i'm building this to go along with a CTR-focused loadout. The Troika has CTR med, i like a good Volcanic Demo Helm with my EV, you get the picture. Finally, yes i've read Bopp's excellent Sword Guide, yes i've looked into older threads about this question (too lazy to post links), and i was hoping to hear from (read: will give more weight to) people who have one or both of these end products. I know they exist, I was fortunate enough to be on the receiving end of a Suda charge in LD.

Feel free to add followup questions. you know, my favorite color, the last time i killed a mewcat, etc.

In the meantime, discuss!

dim, 07/15/2012 - 05:53

Bopp

you've done your homework

As you know, I don't have either weapon, so I can't really comment. (I am working on Sudaruska, though...) I just want to say that I like how you've done your homework. You already know all the basic stuff about these weapons, and you've told us that you know it, so we don't have to tell you about it here. Thanks, really.

dim, 07/15/2012 - 06:48

Sppw

I would just add this.

Triglav

Triglav has less damage but if the freeze affects on the charge/second hit you can easily circle round and charge again.It rarely freezes on second hit.If it doesn't freeze then you still have Sudarsukas knockback but a liitle less but enough for a group to be blasted away.

Sudarsuka

Sudarsuka has higher damage,more knockback and a chance to stun.I do not know how easy it is to stun as I have no expirience with it.

I assume by playing around with you troika you know about the characteristic of the combo and charge.

In my opinion I would choose the Triglav by the ability to freeze which means I can line up another charge after it.

Q&A

Whats you favorite colour?
Y U NOT OVERTIMER?

Everyone else is working on weekends so why dont you come along?
*promotes to overtimer while drinking coffee*
(see forum pics)

¬ Sppw(your generic pit boss)

dim, 07/15/2012 - 08:02

Juances

Both have small drawbacks.
Freeze may trigger at the wrong time and create an unmovable enemy right in front of you, wich is bad if you were trying to escape.
Stun is glitched and may cause enemies to attack instantly withotu much warning.

dim, 07/15/2012 - 10:12

Sireez

My sudaruska

I have a sudaruska and I love it. starting work on a triglave soon XD. I don't like relying on expensive unique variants or luck so I made two Elite Sword Focus modules so any fully heated sword has maximum charge time reduction. Firstly,since they changed the charge, this sword is more fun than both my divine avenger and gran faust in pve and pvp. I had been using it on an FSC marathon and to me the Sudaruska has been great, especially on crowded areas. I was also able to charge it nicely on vanas mask phase and do some serious damage, given that my party members kept putting out the fire. it stuns semiregularly I'd say and I haven't been noticing the stun bug like it used to be. I would suggest getting the sudaruska for the predictability. that chance freeze in the face of the enemy can mean being hit during recovery, but if you intend to be mindful and use the attack behind your enemies I don't see a problem. may be great for lockdown. the Sudaruska is very funny there when I do get the charge off on someone. if it doesn't kill them, the knockback is like a nitronome to the face.

my observations based on my use. definitely one of my favorite weapons.

dim, 07/15/2012 - 10:52

Magnicth

When it comes down to

When it comes down to suda/triglav,its mostly a preference of stun vs. freeze.I myself chose the triglav and went that route.Its an excellent sword if used right,and is even better when paired with an electron vortex line bomb or the graviton vortex line.Just drop the bomb,charge the suda/triglav and release the charge on the horde of monsters caught inside the vortex.its a very effective set when you use it correctly.

~Magnicth the Dragon Mage

dim, 07/15/2012 - 11:55

Pherro

Stun v Freeze Chance

GRRRRRAAAA. Awesome input guys. So far, it would seem that Sudaruska has a greater (normal attack) defensive capability, with consistent knockback and intermittent stun, while Triglav will sometimes freeze, canceling kb. On charge attacks, Triglav has better 'clumping', while Sudaruska will send enemies across the room every time. Also key to my SMASHING is Sppw's comment that Triglav does less damage. Does anyone know if i can trust a pit boss/ if there's any data on by how much?

@Bopp: :D *basks in the acknowledgment*

@Sppw: The color of your despair as i dance around the room like a madman with 10 of my friends, with you at 1 bar of health. Also, pitch-fork purple. totally unrelated.

@Magnicth: That was the combo i was looking forward to, so Bonus Queshtun! (insert echoes) Is the freeze any use in clumping? That is: EV+Triglav charge = several frozen enemies in the vortex (ala Glacius), or lots of scattered ones and 1 lonely frozen one.

Right now, I'm leanin' towards Suda (thanks Sireez), for greater smashing damage and defensive utility, but I'll wait for a little more input (and confirmation of some thangs, like damage difference and freeze chance from a charge attack), so feel free to change my mind. Or give me my weekends back. *sniff*

Carry on.

dim, 07/15/2012 - 12:03

Dark-Flare

Usually I say triglav, since

Usually I say triglav, since i have one (and it looks waay cooler in my opinion), but the freeze on it is very unpredictable, and generally, completely unhelpful, as the monster isn't always interrupted, and instead of it being knocked back, it sits right in front of you, while you are still vulnerable from finishing the combo, allowing it to take a chunk out of your health.

So ultimately, for actual use, use the Suda, not the Triglav.
/cry

dim, 07/15/2012 - 12:07

Bopp

more damage?

According to the wiki, these two swords do the same damage, contrary to some statements made above. Or does the Triglav freeze prevent the charge from landing correctly?

dim, 07/15/2012 - 23:15

Sppw

Ooh I forgot something

Ooh I forgot something letting the freeze wear off and charge atttacking as soon as it wears off is a good option too.

Y U change pix!!! *promoted to yesman* haha you cant attack either!

¬ Sppw

lun, 07/16/2012 - 06:28

#10

Malokenos

Sudaruska

I love my suda <3

It's all about keeping stuff away from you and your teammates. I have a tendency to use mine with a swiftstrike and you basically don't have to use your shield for defense. (once you get the hang of timing) (doesn't really work with devilites).

One thing I've noticed with it, is that ASI reaaaaaaaally makes it's charge attack faster. so while yeah, CTR is the best stat on that monster, get some ASI just for the charge.

Another note, the stun on suda is negligible at best. The only time you stun enemies is on charge attack, after which they're either on the other side of the room or dead. Even lumbers and trojans.

CTR really is the way to go on these, and it's charge benefits from it far more than GF or DA's if you can position yourself well. I've killed an entire spawn wave in a party of four in an arena in the last stratum with ONE CHARGE ATTACK.

Now get to SMASHIN ;3

lun, 07/23/2012 - 04:26

#11

Pherro

Epilogue

Thanks for all the input! Based on y'all's general consensus, I went and made a Sudaruska. I'm used to the trusty Voltedge+EV combo, so the damage numbers in FSC are kinda :( but that was expected, and the charge attack and reach are hugely satisfying, so thanks for all the advice. I've done a few clockworks+FSC runs, and believe me, there's nothing more satisfying than OHKOing a Trojan with a charge -- finally giving those brutes a taste of their own medicine. Score one for the little guys!

A couple notes for people also looking at/making a Suda:
(based off of a few fsc and clockworks runs)

First, the stun seems to be a nonissue. Like Sireez said, it inflicts semiregularly, but isn't much use -- it doesn't seem to last for longer than a second or two, never long enough for me to recharge the sword. That said, i've never had a problem with the stun bug, usually because the kb of the combo keeps me safe, or the charge cancels their attack.

Second, don't neglect the combo. Suda's reach and kb made it a great 2ndary sword in FSC, letting me reach zombies on spikes, or clear a little elbow room in the arena chambers. As with other 2-swingers, most of the time you should play it safe and just use the first swing and shield cancel.

Third (especially when a vortex is involved), neglect the combo. OK not really, but dat charge attack's where it's at. I may have annoyed a few teammates in FSC by being less 'efficient', but who cares about efficient when you've stunned a trojan and mailed some zombies to the other side of the room. Your teammates may look at you funny in arenas when you sit facing the gate charging, but it's worth it when you nail a wave just as it spawns and kill EVERYTHING. Sudaruska is a weapon you get for the satisfaction of using it, rather than to achieve maximum dps: enjoy it!

TLDR:
no lazy for u! read what Sireez and Malokenos said (#4, #10).

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