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Complementing my "Crystallized Quicksilver" loadout

20 replies [Last post]
Tue, 07/17/2012 - 22:03
Xiongataosenai

So I, like many, have been trying to select my signature loadout to work towards. After a perusal through the wiki, I have found a few things that I have become quite enamored with: The Dread Venom Striker, and the Mercurial armor set. I affectionately call this loadout the "Crystallized Quicksilver" set.

The Facts:
*I want to use these items (Mercurial Helm, Mercurial Mail, and Dread Venom Striker)
*I still have an extra weapon slot and a shield to select.
*I want advice on the best options to fill those last two slots, as well as any Unique Variants I should aim for.

What I've come to on my own is that both armor pieces should have elemental and shadow protection and fire resistance as their UVs and the Striker should get some damage bonus vs Fiends, because apparently those are pretty dangerous. My current thought on shield and other weapon are Barbarous Thorn Shield and Valiance. The Argent Peacemaker looks nice, but I'm worried about the lack of knockback. I've been using my gun mainly for zoning and circle-strafing, and I'm concerned that a lack of knockback would be bad for those situations. If I do go with Valiance, I plan to aim for UV bonuses against Constructs and Undead to emulate the advantages of an elemental gun.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 07:20
#1
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances
~

Strikes can be good enough, but hard to use in T3. I'd recommend a different weapon to start with. And instead of normal damage, seek 2 special types.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 07:41
#2
Bopp's picture
Bopp
wear as costume?

Elemental and shadow UVs are not going to give you as much protection as real elemental or shadow armor. So, unless you're super-skilled, I'd recommend getting a better mix of armor and wearing Mercurial as a costume over it.

Aesthetically, the best shield for your "Crystallized Quicksilver" concept might be something like Surge Breaker Shield. Practically, it's not very good.

If you want an elemental gun with good knockback, the obvious choice is Polaris. Valiance isn't bad, though. It's nice to have damage UVs against specific families, but it's even nicer to wear armor and trinkets that give you blanket damage bonuses against all six families, Vanaduke, and other players in PvP.

In general, I'd say that you may be overestimating the effects of UVs (see the wiki page "Abilities") and you may be underestimating the costs associated with getting the specific UVs you want. (If you're not, sorry.)

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 10:42
#3
Xiongataosenai
GOTTA GO FAST

Costume-wise, I'm using the default Tailed Helm and a Metal Sonic Suit. I actually don't like the way the Mercurial set looks, what I'm attracted to is the boost to movement speed.

I agree with you on the blanket damage bonus, which is why I went for Barbarous Thorn Shield as my shield.

The idea behind the UVs is that since I want to build a single "signature" loadout (poor tactical choice as it may be) and don't want to spend money on trinket and weapon upgrades that I have to keep sinking money into if I don't want them to go away, I'll have that much more crowns to spend rolling for ideal UVs. There will eventually come a point where I have all the gear I want and nothing to spend my crowns on other than variants for them, and at that point why not roll for perfects?

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 11:48
#4
Bopp's picture
Bopp
ok

You're attracted to the increased movement speed. Have you seen it in action? If not, try to preview it on YouTube or something. The increase is so small that it's barely noticeable.

You can get trinket slot upgrades for less than 8000 crowns, and weapon slot upgrades for about twice that. Alternatively, if you have an alternate character, then you can use his ME to get these for 50 CE and 150 CE, respectively. So I spend 250 CE each month to maintain two trinket slots and three weapon slots. That's about 20,000 crowns per month.

The wiki article "Unique variant" suggests that your chances of getting a Max UV on armor may be as low as 5%. So getting a Max armor UV is expected to require 20 tries, at a total cost of 400,000 crowns. That's nearly two years' worth of trinket and weapon slot upgrades at my rate. And it might not even be the UV you want, of course.

But it's true that you will eventually have more money than you know what to do with, and you might as well spend it on exactly what you want. I'm just trying to make sure you know the costs involved. Enjoy. :)

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 13:08
#5
Xiongataosenai
~

I heard that defensive UVs give a full bar of defense per level and that bonus damage UVs add 7% damage per level, not sure about resist UVs.

I've tried to find comparison videos on Youtube, to no avail, and I'm aware that the Speed boost might not be what I'm wishing it to be. But the Mercurial set doesn't seem to be that bad regardless, unless piercing defense is a useless defense to have. At the very least, It resists shock, which I'm told is one of the most dangerous status effects out there.

If it's the Elemental Damage resistance that's so important, I might opt for the Mercurial Demo set instead, and this may or may not include swapping out the Valiance for a bomb. Would swapping out for a bomb leave me vulnerable to turrets?

Speaking of speed, Attack Speed. A few tests with a Swiftstrike Buckler end with me noticing a difference, even with my already blazing fast Striker, but is it worth it? If I go with the DVS/Valiance combo, my current plans are to aim for ASI/Construct Damage/Undead Damage on my Valiance, and ASI/Slime Damage/Fiend Damage on my Striker. First off, I don't doubt that there's a better option than Slime for that damage bonus on the Striker, but should I aim for ASI, or 3 monster type bonuses?

I'm currently decked out in mostly level 2 gear (My Striker and my Swiftstrike Buckler are my only level 3s) so, like you've recommended, I'm trying to get a good idea of what I'm working towards now before I get much farther in the game. That's why I made this thread in the first place.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 13:31
#6
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Swiftstrike is worth it on

Swiftstrike is worth it on all weapons, except bombs. I hear asi also affects bomb's up and down movement, but really, it doesn't help that much. Arguably the best T2 shield due to its moderate defence and high offensive bonus, ssb is amazing as long as you remember it is a more fragile shield than most.

I skimmed through the posts above, and it seems like you simply want normal damage weapons to fight all of clockworks, since you won't encounter anything that resists normal. I'm not sure if this is explained somewhere up top, but having 2 specialized weapons allows you to deal effective damage to 4 of the 6 families, and normal damage to the last 2. This is in comparison to your weapons loadout which deals simply normal across the board, with no extra damage. I apologize if I missed anything.

For weapon uv, you have the choice of damage vs family(6), asi, and ctr. Damage vs family is generally not a preferred uv for a few reasons. Certain armour/trinkets give your weapons damage bonus. This damage bonus is usually med on a 5* piece, and a full set gives you vh. That's med/vh to all monsters, including exceptions like vana and knight, when you are using the weapon type. Second, damage vs family do not exceed the maximum value. So if you were to have a vh damage sword set, and roll a gremlin high, your damage vs gremlin will be max. The extra point in your uv is not counted. And people prefer asi/ctr on weapons to family bonus, because rolling is expensive for most and family bonus tends to not sell well.

It is possible to obtain 2 normal weapons with vh damage to 3 different family on each weapon. But let me remind you the costs of rolling 3 uvs. 225k for that one ticket. You could use the 1 uv ticket to roll a uv you want, then move to 2 uvs, keeping the uv you want and rolling that second. Then you have to use the 3 uv ticket, check the 2 you want, and keep rolling until you got what you want. Have you any idea how expensive it is, compared to buying just 1 weapon slot for 15k-18k cr. In fact, that's cheaper than buying the 1 uv ticket, with which you need to be very lucky to receive a vh damage vs whatever. And even if you don't want to craft the 3rd weapon to fill the last slot, 225kcr is about 2700ce, if you set the conversion at 8300cr. That's still enough for you to craft a weapon up to 5*.

/endrant

Anyways. I might have mathed wrong, so don't take ce/225kcr number too seriously. In the end, what you want is up to you. Having 1 armour set for each defence is great, but you can make do with only one set, whether it be a general purpose, gun spec, sword spec, bomb spec, or hipster.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 13:49
#7
Bopp's picture
Bopp
response

Demonicsothe gives good advice, although I admit that I only skimmed that post.

I heard that defensive UVs give a full bar of defense per level and that bonus damage UVs add 7% damage per level, not sure about resist UVs.

Status UVs give a full bar of status defense. Damage UVs give far less --- more like 40% of what real armor gives. Read the wiki page "Abilities".

I've tried to find comparison videos on Youtube, to no avail, and I'm aware that the Speed boost might not be what I'm wishing it to be. But the Mercurial set doesn't seem to be that bad regardless, unless piercing defense is a useless defense to have. At the very least, It resists shock, which I'm told is one of the most dangerous status effects out there.

According to "Abilities", you're going to get maybe 8% speedup in movement. In my experience it's not noticeable. Shock is very valuable defense. Of the four damage defenses, piercing is the least useful, because the monsters that deal piercing (slimes and beasts) are probably the two easiest families in the game.

If it's the Elemental Damage resistance that's so important, I might opt for the Mercurial Demo set instead, and this may or may not include swapping out the Valiance for a bomb. Would swapping out for a bomb leave me vulnerable to turrets?

Mercurial Demo Suit/Helm can be crafted only in the Shadow Lairs. It is not a good choice for your first 5-star armor.

Speaking of speed, Attack Speed. A few tests with a Swiftstrike Buckler end with me noticing a difference, even with my already blazing fast Striker, but is it worth it? If I go with the DVS/Valiance combo, my current plans are to aim for ASI/Construct Damage/Undead Damage on my Valiance, and ASI/Slime Damage/Fiend Damage on my Striker. First off, I don't doubt that there's a better option than Slime for that damage bonus on the Striker, but should I aim for ASI, or 3 monster type bonuses?

For detailed data on how ASI affects attack speed, read "Abilities" and the data pages linked from it. Ordinarily I'd say ASI or CTR is what you want, but the Cutter-line charge attacks are...not great. I guess I'd go with ASI. By the way, it's going to cost you a fortune to get the three UVs you want on that sword. We are talking many millions of crowns.

I'm currently decked out in mostly level 2 gear (My Striker and my Swiftstrike Buckler are my only level 3s) so, like you've recommended, I'm trying to get a good idea of what I'm working towards now before I get much farther in the game. That's why I made this thread in the first place.

Yep, and that's why this forum is here. You're making good use of it. I hope I'm helping. Cheers.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 14:57
#8
Xiongataosenai
Shadow Lair, huh?

I know about the fact that getting what I want will cost somewhere in the order of billions of crowns (My beef against Trinket and Weapon slot upgrades wasn't necessarily about cost-efficiency, but more about me being annoyed by transience). I did not know about Mercurial Demo needing Shadow Lair. Looks like fun.

If I have to use some Divine Skolver armor to get through the places I need to get through, so be it. The means are bridges I'll cross when I get to them. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get the ends I want.

Shadow Lair or no Shadow Lair, would the Mercurial Demo set be a better choice in the end than the Mercurial set, even if I was to use a blaster instead of a Bomb? After damage vs. Fiend, which damage bonus would be most useful for my DVS? I hear that Status Resists on Shields are fairly useless, and by that logic, I should go for all defenses on my shield, is that true?

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 15:06
#9
Bopp's picture
Bopp
some responses

Mercurial Demo is generally better than Mercurial Mail, because of the bomb bonus, and because elemental is slightly more useful than piercing. The fact that you're not using any bombs, and the fact that Mercurial Demo requires Shadow Lairs, means that it may not be worth it to you.

After fiends, perhaps constructs or undead would be useful bonuses for your DVS. Constructs are really prevalent throughout the game, and undead are really prevalent in Firestorm Citadel. Slimes and beasts are pretty easy. Gremlins are somewhere in the middle, to me.

I'll let someone else comment on the shield UVs.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 07:21
#10
Mohandar's picture
Mohandar
TLDR: a well rounded arsenal > one super UV set

Unless you're prepared to spend inordinate amounts of time and/or money to get those UVs, I recommend just building multiple armor sets. The Arsenal stations at the beginning of most levels basically encourages you to build a loadout for each type of level, and in Tier 3 it is much more effective (gameplay and costwise) to do this rather than shoot for a max UV set. The amount of CE/cr you would have to spend to get those UVs could easily fun dozens of vanilla 5* items (actually, you can get lows and mediums pretty cheap most of the time).

My recommendation is to first figure out your style (swords? bombs? guns? hybrid?), figure out what types of monsters you have the most trouble with, and build two sets of gear- one that you are comfortable with in your playstyle and can handle most enemies, and a second set that buffs up your defenses and offensive capability against the enemy you have trouble with.

For example, lately I've taken to playing gunner so I use Shadowsun Slicker paired with either a Nameless or Justifier Hat, giving me ample defense against normal damage, as well as moderate defense against whatever special type I may be facing. I then load out with a Storm or Magma Driver (elemental, depending on whether oilers or quicksilvers are present) and an Umbra Driver (shadow), as well as a haze bomb (Voltaic Tempest or Ash of Agni). This handles about 80% of the floors I encounter, but the lack of piercing damage means I need a separate loadout for beasts and fiends. Because these two enemy types are naturally tougher to gun, I have a Valkyrie (and later Snarby) set and Barbarous Thorn Blade to deal with those. Ever since the nerf some while ago, beasts have ceased to be a threat, so I've basically given up on pierce protection for beast levels, though I wound up making a Skolver eventually for completeness. (In fact, wolvers are a complete joke with Dark Briar Barrage.)

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 07:51
#11
Derpules's picture
Derpules
I'm puzzled.

Why would you want just one uber set? What's the point? Mohandar makes a lot more sense to me.

Don't get me wrong; I'm hunting uber sets too (though my idea of an uber set doesn't necessarily mean double max). But I already have something for every situation. Had I started with just one set, and tried to make it truly awesome before touching other damage resistances, I'd have ended up quite frustrated.

Getting more sets is very cheap compared to rolling great UVs.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 09:58
#12
Bopp's picture
Bopp
guys, you're missing the point

Esteemed regular advice givers: You're missing the point. This guy really values speed. He wants to run as fast as possible (hence Mercurial, even though the effect is tiny) and swing a sword as fast as possible (hence DVS). All other loadout goals are secondary. He doesn't want to kill monsters as efficiently as possible; he wants the best possible shield and gun to go with his already-made choices.

Xiongataosenai, I apologize if I'm misrepresenting you. If I'm right, and you really do value speed this much, then go for Swiftstrike Buckler and Argent Peacemaker. Don't worry about the lack of knockback; you will adjust your tactics to handle it. Go for ASI and two monster damage UVs on each weapon.

And plan on getting one piece of Mercurial and one piece of Mercurial Demo, to diversify your damage protection a bit. I'll let other people comment on the armor UVs.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 10:29
#13
Xiongataosenai
I know about practicality, I'm looking for personality.

I know that rolling for perfect UVs is just about the least efficient thing you can do in Spiral Knights. Multiple sets for different scenarios and trinket slots are much more practical options. But what I'm ultimately looking for is to make a loadout that is personal. More than just a look, I'm aiming for my abilities and capabilities to be a defined signature that I can be identified by as much as any look. I'm aware that such an option is impractical, inefficient, and will inevitably limit my overall capabilities unnecessarily, but those are costs I'm willing to suffer in my quest to individualize myself in absolutely every way imaginable.

Basically I'm a hipster, but without the "better-than-thou" attitude.

Regarding Speed: I was actually originally thinking of the Swiftstrike + Argent Peacemaker combo, but then I got to tier 2 and everything started doing crazy damage to me (I now totally get what you mean when you say that piercing defense is the least useful defense). You're correct in that I heavily value speed, but I value versatility even more so.

Here's my priorities when choosing a loadout, from most important to least important:
*Identity
*Versatility
*Speed

It's most important that my loadout is MY loadout, a loadout that I can identify myself by. Second priority is to have options and be able to handle anything that comes at me with at least moderate effectiveness. Speed is third. (Then in fourth comes things that can self-heal to reduce downtime, but those don't really exist in Spiral Knights that I know of.)

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 10:45
#14
Derpules's picture
Derpules
Okay, cool.

I get it now.

Re: Swiftstrike, it really should be viable in T2. (Pros with decent connections can run with it anywhere--T3, SLs, whatever. I can't.) If SSB is not doing it for you in T2, you probably need to work on your skills. You should not be blocking everything.

There's little else to say. You want this loadout. You can make this loadout. You will still be able to kill things. Yay! :P

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 11:09
#15
Bopp's picture
Bopp
identity, versatility, speed

Here are the armor sets that give protection against all four damage types:
* Divine Veil with a normal+piercing coat
* Radiant Silvermail with a normal+elemental helmet
* Dragon Scale Mail or Helm with a normal+shadow piece
Divine Veil with Skolver Coat is probably the best and most popular general-purpose set. So it meets your versatility criterion, but fails miserably at identity. So maybe look at the latter two options. In particular, maybe you'd like Radiant Silvermail with Mercurial Demo Helm?

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 13:31
#16
Xiongataosenai
At this point, we're basically done here.

"There's little else to say. You want this loadout. You can make this loadout. You will still be able to kill things. Yay! :P"

Yep, basically. I had read up a lot on the wiki and I came to some conclusions, but I wanted to run it by people who actually knew what they were doing (primarily Bopp) to make sure I wasn't aiming for something that would be completely worthless.

One thing to note is that cost is not a major priority for me, which is why I'm so gung-ho on the UVs in the first place. It's not that I'm rolling in money (I'm not), I just consider the trials I'll have to go through to get what I want to be part of the adventure.

I did some number-crunching on defenses. Looking at the images on the wiki, it seems that the Skolver Coat has 7.5 "bars" of normal defense, and 6.5 bars of Piercing defense, while the Divine veil has 7.5 bars each of Shadow and Elemental (all talk of bars is approximate and assumes maximum heat). Meanwhile, both of the Mercurial Demo items give 7.5 bars of Normal and 6.5 bars of Elemental. According to the Wiki, each level of a defense UV gives 1 bar of the corresponding defense, so that a Maximum Defense UV provides 4 bars. As has been mentioned, this is less than a typical 5-star piece of armor provides. But if both pieces of Armor have the same Maximum Defense UV, then that adds up to 8 bars in that defense, marginally higher that what a single 5-star item alone provides. So if the Divine Veil alone provides passable shadow defense, then having a helmet and armor combo with both items possessing a Maximum Shadow Defense UV, while definitely the far more expensive option, should provide about the same adequate level of shadow defense.

Regarding status resists, the Wiki states that a maximum Status Resist UV is on par with the top level resistant gear like the Volcanic Demo Helm, among others.

This means that a full Mercurial Demo set with both pieces having Maximum Shadow Defense and Maximum Fire Resist results in superb Elemental defense and adequate Shadow defense, and the best resistances to Fire and Shock effects that can be obtained without adding trinkets to the mix. There's a lack of Piercing defense, but the Barbarous Thorn Shield is good at blocking those if the need arises, and Beasts and Slimes tend to be some of the less threatening enemies anyway.

Now for damage. The Wiki says that each level of damage boost provides about 7% more damage, while one of Bopp's articles mentioned that an advantageous attacking type does about 25% extra damage. So if I possess a DVS with a very high damage bonus vs. Fiends then that, added to the boost provided by the BTS, tallies up to 42% extra damage. meanwhile, a piercing sword with no damage bonus UV would be doing 14% extra damage times it's inherent 25% boost vs. Fiends due to typing. 1.14*1.25=1.425, about the same boost as my DVS over there. Obviously boosting the UVs of a DVS is the more expensive option, and a piercing sword can have boosts too and boosts can cap while typing goes beyond that, but the point is that I can roughly simulate the advantage of a piercing sword (more damage vs. Fiends) while still being able to use a DVS, which is the sword I like. By the same token, I can roughly simulate the advantages of an Elemental gun with Damage Boost UVs while still keeping the versatility and zoning abilities of the Valiance.

Top those damage boosts with an Attack Speed increase on each weapon and I'd say I'm ready to take on the world! Further UVs would be nice, but two Perfect UVs on an item is far cheaper than 3 Perfect UVs on that item, and I'd like to at least keep the expenses in the millions instead of them shooting up into the billions.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 13:35
#17
Xiongataosenai
Swiftstrike Buckler

"If SSB is not doing it for you in T2, you probably need to work on your skills. You should not be blocking everything."

The Buckler is doing it for me in T2. Really, if anything, I'm not blocking enough. The deal was that I noticed the jump in the damage I was taking from T1 to T2 and said, "Well, if this pattern continues on to T3 (which I've heard it definitely does), I'm going to be toast without a shield that can keep up".

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 13:41
#18
Yukarie's picture
Yukarie
Don't forget about trinkets!

Don't forget about trinkets! Especially if you go for having more than 2 weapons, then trinkets can help you with buffing whichever weapon type you favor. Or in the case of not favoring anything, you could always get heart pendants which will help you stuff one or two more attacks in T3 or so.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 14:04
#19
Xiongataosenai
Trinkets...

I obviously can't be bashing them as inefficient given the methods I do plan on using, but I find myself bothered by the transience of Trinket and Weapon slots.

In most games, if you unlock something and it decides to re-lock itself all of a sudden, it's either a horrible glitch that needs to be fixed ASAP or a sign of really crummy game design. I know that with all the resources I plan to sink into UVs I could afford all the weapon and trinket slots I wanted for years, but as an aspiring game designer, I look very deeply into the intention behind each feature, and I can't in good morals back a system that seems so... seedy.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:34
#20
Pauling's picture
Pauling
Whoa, now. Don't read too

Whoa, now. Don't read too literally into the stat bars on armor. As far as any of us know, the scales aren't linear (5th bar is less protection than the 6th), and can't be used to reliably compare even two pieces of seemingly identical armor. It's a really screwed up system, but there you have it.

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