Spiral Knights - We Need another way to get Krogmo Coins or the Recipes.

We Need another way to get Krogmo Coins or the Recipes.

44 replies [Last post]

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 21:24

Rommil

I really don't care to grind 1k matches of laggy, latency-filled lockdown to get the recipes to make new toys. It does not add to the fun of the game, but rather detracts from my entire SK experience. I know its not a prob for people who either like lockdown, or at the very least can actually play it.

But for the rest of us, its hours and hours and hours of mindless monotony that only minutely mimics the game its intended to be. OOO please review the situation and consider an alternative means for the minority (?) of us who cannot adequately play lockdown to acquire these recipes. not bomb heads, it makes sense for those to be lockdown rewards. But its kinda silly to have such a barrier of boredom to get recipes.

Not like we don't still have to craft those items, heat those items, etc...

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 21:29

Rommil

a possible solution

i don't only point out problems, but i offer solutions as well.

simple solution a:
make 50 of each recipe pop up on the featured auction house from time to time. much like has been done with aegis/azure/levi lines from time to time.

simple solution b:
its been long enough. there is no skill barrier to getting these recipes only a time barrier (granted skill can get them for you quicker). why not just let them come unbound. then LD players can sell them on AH, use some of their infinite coins with no use, and give those of us with time and connection restraints another alternative.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 21:39

Fehzor

I vote for option b.

The unsaid idea is of course a new minigame or mode for it, although I'd rather we get PvE content in the form of new monsters as usual, or perhaps something new for the Auction House, now that they've hurt their own featured auctions.

(Also keep in mind that I don't need recipes or anything from krogmo or play lockdown)

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 21:43

Guardian-Ceal

I concur.

I always thought It was stupid that you couldn't get them besides Lockdown/BN spamming, and even then, they're ridiculously expensive.
With HoH I thought they might be there, but, nope. (Nor Graviton Line for some reason, Darn you OOO! Grrr.) [Or Boss Line Recipes...No easy Snarby/RT/JK stuff for you! (No Crest of Almire IS understandable, but the swordsman, gunner, and bomber should know that those are some of the most important tools for a Knight that focuses on them!)]
It would be cool if they were there for like x2 price just so we could get it...

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 21:43

Arctifice

Blast Network.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 22:57

Pdtopgun

I'd be all for this myself.

I'd be all for this myself. I pretty much royally suck at Blast Network, and I don't really enjoy Lockdown at all (plus I suck there too), so I have only a handful of Krogmo Coins. I'm not exactly brimming with impatience to grab any of the weapon lines that Sullivan sells, but it'd be nice to have the option for the future.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 23:45

Njthug

I might be mistaken, but all

I might be mistaken, but all suggestions should be posted in the suggestion area of the forums.

Regardless, like a few others said just farm blast network instead of lockdown, and well if you can't be bothered to do both I guess you really just don't want the recipes. Three Rings made it possible for you to receive all the recipes with just 1 total day of grinding BN or LD (24 hours in total) its not that rough with coin boosters stacked.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 23:48

Tenkii

Jussaiyan

Blast network games are exactly 5 minutes.
They're generally shorter than your average lockdown matches, which now push into the 6-8 min range.

The main issues is finding a game of BN, but once it starts up, it's pretty quick.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 00:15

Cornu

Game Modes

There's still quite a few generic PvP game modes we don't have, yet:

-Capture the Flag
-King of the Hill (One-Point Lockdown)
-Deathmatch

And a few not so PvP ones. I'd personally like to see a Clockworks race, in which three or so random Clockworks levels are generated and the goal is to be the first party to get through them, with opportunity perhaps to sabotage the opposing team as you go on.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 00:44

Goofio

It would be nice if we could trade recipes in addition to Enamorocks and Mod Calibrators.

However, it is possible to get 500-1000 tokens in one day if you use Krogmo Coin Boosters.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 10:41

#10

Tersakaff

I agree with option b. It's a complete pain to farm these coins most of the time. Until I got used to it. Personally, it got me into LD a bit more but I definitely agree with b.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 11:13

#11

Boodo

I like pie.

I agree getting these items for Krogmo Coins can be a bit rough on those who don't enjoy Lockdown or Blast Network. OOO should create a alternate way to obtain these items. Or just get something else if they don't.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 11:22

#12

Sypsy

Option b +1

I would love to sell recipes because I'm sitting on approx 2k krogmo coins, with all the recipes purchased. I can't be bothered to sell mod cals/enamorocks in trade due to thin margins and high quantities already being traded.

Lockdown players would be happier because they get at least two things:
a) another way to cash out their krogmo coins
b) fewer random weak players who are only playing for coins. It's not fun when your team of 4 is half composed of players who are only there for the coins.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:05

#13

Yukarie

I'd love to see b done, just

I'd love to see b done, just because it feels rather silly that they're bound, and would let those people who have tons of KCs actually use them, and would let people who don't like lockdown still have access to recipes.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:27

#14

Xylka-Mkii

Maybe make special Danger

Maybe make special Danger Rooms in the Clockworks where it will be: "If you defeat this challenge, you ill gain x mount of Krogmo Coins for showing your fighting Spirit." Or something.

OR the better solution to sell the tokens at the vendor for 200CR each (Because you always get one whether you win or lose, and it costs 200 to enter the Coliseum.) Why not? Or have a choice to pay with cr or tokens.

If not, then option b sounds fine to me.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:32

#15

Little-Juances

Danger rooms = arcade = it could work

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:36

#16

Xylka-Mkii

^Exactly why I thought of it

The missions have enough attention as it is :P

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:48

#17

Orangeo

I'd rather have them balance

I'd rather have them balance lockdown than make something else. Perfect what you have before advancing. Not even hard to fix, just nerf heart trinkets, nerf pure damage swords, decrease forward movement on fast swords, and make it so all your gear has to be the right teir level to play.

Ran into a guy today (most literaly) who's strategy was to tank hits as striker with heart pendants, without using any boost, then fight people once they were out of gas from whacking him. I mean seriously, if they're going to allow noobs to pay for double HP why not make a gun that completly deplets striker fuel?

Then theres proto noobs who run around with brandishes. Seriously. Why is that allowed? That dosen't even benifit OOO, they'd make money if people were forced to craft useable gear.

Instead of fixing their PVP, OOO just sells people a way to work around their mistake it with coin boosters. The same way they sell people heart trinkets, that spark the need for coin boosters in the first place. You're essentialy paying OOO to do a worse job than they could. Look at what OOO's doing, it's like hiring thugs to attack policemen so you can sell the police guns to defend themselves. How is that not moraly wrong? That's way to far beyond just buissnes. Saying that PVP is a crown sink is either a joke or a lie.

Edit;
@Cornu
King of the hill could be fun. The other two wouldn't work so well in my opinion.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:41

#18

Serell

Hmmm.... hm hm hm...

The danger room thingy could work... yes.... maybe finally bring CE prices down to a reasonable price....

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:47

#19

Xylka-Mkii

"Saying that PVP is a crown

"Saying that PVP is a crown sink is either a joke or a lie."

Both. The mount of CR actually lost per game is probably close to 100 if not less, since the other team gets about 80 cr more per player anyway. So the 20 left over from the other side is lost.

So in a full game ~ 120cr is lost, and with les and less players, even LESS cr is sunk.

.... Fix PVP plox

EDIT:
Did I make plan C ?

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 12:55

#20

Orangeo

You did in a way, but in my

You did in a way, but in my opinion it should be plan A. The amount of crowns spent is improportional to the amount of CE spent on K-boosters. Ironicaly, most K-boost users use the boosters because of heart trinkets, that also cost CE.

I mean how can OOO say that these are balanced? Compare to the weapon trinkets;
the 5* is medium
the 4* is low
So the 5* is twice as powerful as the 4*

hearts;
the 5* is plus 6
the 4* is plus 5
Why isn't the 4* plus 3? That's half of 6, it's not in ratio with other trinkets. The 2* heart pendant is in line with a 4* item! So people who use two 3*'s in T2 are basicaly a teir ahead of other players!

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 14:06

#21

Rommil

@NJthug

I don't doubt that your math is correct, and that one could get all the recipes in a total of 24 hours with boosters. But that doesn't refute my point, it only proves it correct.

#1
time is money. 24 hours is over half a work week. Given my hourly salary, spending 24 hours of grinding lockdown with krogmo boosters adds up to a pretty shiny nickel's worth of my time!!

#2
Again you are emphasizing my point. OOO is requiring me to spend at least a total of 24 - 72 hours (depending on krogmo boosters?) grinding at a function of the game i do not enjoy, in order to gain items to use in the parts i do enjoy! It just seems like a very poor set-up when the end goal of the game is to create a pleasurable experience for its players (or to make money, but creating a pleasurable experience is what will convince players to spend money).

Now, i don't really need every recipe there, but given the option of being able to acquire them all without such a monumental investment of boredom and tedium i'd gladly make every one of those weapons in the long run. As it is, i'll just have the displeasure of trying to acquire the recipes i DO WANT.

thanks to everyone who have posted for being so civil and making good points all.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 15:37

#22

Luguiru

Dem investments

Krogmo games take a while and can be tedious to grind through.

Hypothetically, what would happen if Krogmo recipes were available through Basil in the Arcade as boss recipes are?

Say you only get one coin per game of Blast Network, it takes five minutes for one round, each round costs 200Cr to enter, and you just want one of the 4* recipes. That recipe calls for a hundred tokens, but since you only get one token every five minutes that means five hundred minutes and 20,000Cr lost.

At Basil it costs 10kCr to a 4* recipe and however long it takes you to get you there (T2 or T3 for 4* recipes, results may vary) but you want a specific recipe. That means getting recipes through Basil runs the chance of finding nothing you want. You could be grinding for T2 Basil after clearing T1 on that gate so you have no entry fee for derpbillion years and you might not get it. Might. It is highly unlikely that it will take derpbillion years to find the recipe because that is not a real number. This is ignoring the fact that Basil appears in mission lobbies with recipes relevant to the mission and the Hall of Heroes has the majority of existing recipes. Pretend this is before the mission update and everything except Cobalt can only be found through Basil in the Arcade. The game counts them as boss recipes. Arcade only. For the sake of low probabilities, Basil only has six recipes on every run you try to find your recipe and only one of them is the same star rank. If it takes around eight minutes to clear each average floor because you like to take your time and you only need to clear floors ten to twelve, it takes 24 minutes for you to do a single Basil run in T2. Keep in mind you are using energy to access these floors because you are a very lax player. That means you can only do three runs with a full tank before you have to use reserve or wait even longer. That means 72 minutes spent on the floors before you get to Basil and at least three chances to see what you want. There are a lot of 4* recipes that might show up there. Liquids.

There are currently 78 4* recipes which can appear at Basil. If you add Krogmo weapons it bumps up to 83. That means in the same scenario above it would hypothetically take 5616 minutes (93 hours and 36 minutes) to find one specific 4* recipe through Basil or 5976 minutes (99 hours and 36 minutes) if Krogmo recipes are thrown in there. Every 72 minutes is 90E, meaning totals of 7020E for current recipes or 7470E if Krogmo recipes are included. If you have been following along you know these are the high end numbers. I am not going to do low end.

Compare this back to the first scenario with Blast Network. Five hundred minutes translates to 8.3... hours to get a hundred Krogmo tokens if you only get one token every five minute round and 20kCr for entry fees every game. Solids. On the floor.

How much is time worth?

If we take the current CE price to buy energy (~7900Cr:100CE, ~79Cr:1CE) and compare it to a lax Vanaduke run (an hour), it costs you 50E (3950Cr) and an hour to get ~6000Cr. That breaks down to ~2050Cr an hour.

Going back to the laid back Blast Network trucker, it takes them 8.3... hours to get that 4* recipe and each hour is ~2050Cr and they still have the 20kCr entry fees. That comes down to 37,083 (rounded down in decimals) crowns for that stupid 4* recipe. Lollygagging linguistics.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 15:53

#23

Yukarie

Hmm... Can you do your napkin

Hmm... Can you do your napkin math, assuming X (Some number between 1 and 6) coin boosters? Because, obviously via buying coin boosters, your money (CE) can be used to buy time for profit.

PS: I did do the "buy the battle pack and grind LD the whole day" bit, and in the end, got 750ish KCs in total. That's with five boosters, and about 14 hours of LD.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 16:22

#24

Klipik

A slight problem (I think)

Wouldn't this raise the price of CE even more? I mean unbindable Krogmo rewards =:

1: rush for more tokens in games > much filling of bribery bar -> CE sink

2: many people selling items for high prices of CE -> CE sink

3: creating alot of alts and getting alot of tokens per game -> problem 2

Am I right?

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 17:43

#25

Orangeo

"OOO is requiring me to spend

"OOO is requiring me to spend at least a total of 24 - 72 hours (depending on krogmo boosters?) grinding at a function of the game i do not enjoy, in order to gain items to use in the parts i do enjoy!"

EXACTALY. Instead of making balanced PVP, they make K boosters. Instead of fixing mistakes, they profit off them. That's crazy.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 17:54

#26

Addisond

Agreed

There should be a way to get these recipies without grinding LD/BN if you don't like it.. so many people play LD games non-seriously when it's clear they don't have an impact because, quite simply, they don't want to be there. It's quite annoying.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 18:11

#27

Orangeo

It would still make more

It would still make more sense to just make LD and BN better, so that more people wanted to be there. Companies should fix their mistakes, not profit off off allowing people to work around them.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 18:45

#28

Addisond

There's always going to be someone who doesn't like a certain play mode. If the game were totally filled with shankles, I wouldn't like it (I don't like moving traps). People have their own tastes, rather than trying to make one PvP mode mildly likeable to all, I'd rather it if we simply added alternative PvP modes. But sadly there's only one right now, and that one doesn't allow you to take your equips.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:28

#29

Fehzor

OOO doesn't profit off of K boosters, they lose a profit due to the following:
-Players not liking the system of having to pay-to-win and thus being less likely to buy from OOO and recomend the game to a friend
-Energy used to buy them raising the price of CE by more than the game would benefit from allowing an equal amount of expansion caused by newer players joining into the system working in conjunction with the lessened crown fees per token
-Players being forced to do something they don't enjoy for an extended period of time rather than over several slightly less painful sessions

The only time K boosters benefit them is when they are given out free or are sold over the featured auctions.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:55

#30

Magnicth

I worked my butt of to get

I worked my butt of to get all the Triglav recipes. Took me forever. If they make an alternative way to get krogmo recipes, then anybody who likes the troika lines can easily just get the Triglav recipes and be done with it. I don't want my Triglav to become an easy to get thing, nor any of the other recipes, as I'm sure those who have the plague needle, Triglav, electron vortex, and the stagger storm feel the same way about their krogmo items they've worked to get. That's why they made krogmo recipes, so if players wanted these uncommon different weapons they'd have to work for them, but by doing this, it would be way too easy ti get the recipes.

~Magnicth the Dragon Mage

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:19

#31

Uuni

How about making King

How about making King Krogmo's Casino that lets you play games in exchange for krogmo coins. They could have simple slots machine and maybe a simplified roulette or something. I'd just rather try my luck in the slots than waste hours on end in LD ruining everyone's game being super bad without proper gear or UV's

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:56

#32

Rommil

S magnicth

i have a voltedge on my main and a graviton vortex (5*) on my bombing alt. I want them to be easier to be had for all the above stated reasons.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:58

#33

Rommil

double posts are not magic

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:48

#34

Niichi

I don't want my Triglav to become an easy to get thing, nor any of the other recipes, as I'm sure those who have the plague needle, Triglav, electron vortex, and the stagger storm feel the same way about their krogmo items they've worked to get.

Quite the opposite. I worked to get my Plague Needle, but I hated the overall process of doing so because PvP isn't the primary reason I play SK. If these were just cosmetic items that held no gameplay value other than looks then I wouldn't care, but that isn't the case. I'd be quite happy to see them become more readily available. It might invoke a bit more variety in the Clockworks.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 06:59

#35

Orangeo

"OOO doesn't profit off of K

"OOO doesn't profit off of K boosters, they lose a profit due to the following:
-Players not liking the system of having to pay-to-win and thus being less likely to buy from OOO and recomend the game to a friend
-Energy used to buy them raising the price of CE by more than the game would benefit from allowing an equal amount of expansion caused by newer players joining into the system working in conjunction with the lessened crown fees per token
-Players being forced to do something they don't enjoy for an extended period of time rather than over several slightly less painful sessions

The only time K boosters benefit them is when they are given out free or are sold over the featured auctions."

That's untrue. Anything that sinks CE benifits OOO. Higher CE price means more players become willing ot buy CE. I'm pretty sure kids are still going to reccomend this to their frends, my brother does, and he's used k boosters and thinks PVP is stupid. If it's pay to win, people will want to pay so they can win. That means OOO gets money. As I said, making the game less fun really dosen't scare many people off. It's just influencing them to spend money on K boosters.

How would giving them out for free benifit them more than selling them? That's like if I'm at the market, do I make more profit if I'm selling apples with a fixed price, or if I give them out for free?

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 07:36

#36

Hadn

This is what I don't get, Blast Network was released last August I think? Why only now have you suggested this? Even if you did a couple games a day from release with a couple boosters on days you had more time to play, you'd have had enough for a couple recipes.

Yes I agree lots of people can't deal with the grind due to lag or other issues but everyone else has already gone through it so why should it change now? It wouldn't be fair on those who have already gone through the process.

A bunch of guildies just recently have dealt with the "grind" of Blast Network together to get those recipes even though they dislike it. It's about who you play with that makes it fun. Sign up together with a bunch of friends and the chances are you'll all get into the same game due to the queues for Blast Network being so low. Make it a more enjoyable task for yourself rather than just complaining about it. It'll feel like less of a "grind" that way.

As Nj has said, if you really wanted it then you would grind for it. Things don't just get given to you the easy way and not everything should be accessible from crowns. Some people have extreme lag while doing FSC but its the only way to obtain Almirian Seals. I don't see people asking for Fang of Vogs to be placed in auctions now and then just because they want one.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 16:09

#37

Atacii

...

I don't understand this complaint. All the recipes offered have closely related alternatives not requiring krogmo coins.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:17

#38

Rangerwillxx-Xx

Play Blast Network. That was easy.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:56

#39

Abyssal-Flamberge

Option B: The Usage of Infinite Coins Article 1.

I vote for the 2nd Option cause:

1. I didn't get Option A.
2. When I understood Option A, I didn't understand it even more.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:10

#40

Dark-Flare

Optioin C:

Integrate King Krogmo as a new Devilite boss.
Bosses -> Boss tokens
Krogmo -> Krogmo tokens

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 00:17

#41

Amanzi

Binding Krogmo recipes sucks.

Let's take it from both player's point of view.

PvPer:
"I enjoy Lockdown and/or Blast Network and play them very often, as a result, I have accumulated OVER 9000 Krogmo coins. (I kid, only about 2-3K.)
Now, I've already bought all of the recipes and I've gotten all of the bombheads Sullivan has to offer, the only thing I can do now is buy either mod calibrators or enamarocks, both of which are already being sold the other PvPers because that's the only thing they can sell. My friends rely on my to make some 3star weapons for them because otherwise, they'll have to go through about 150-300 matches to get the recipes for a single weapon line they want. I can't make them the 4 star or the 5 star items because the unbinding fee is a lot higher than what it costs to just buy a 4/5star from the supply depot. If I could sell the recipes I bought from Sullivan, that means my friends can enjoy all of the weapons Spiral Knights has to offer (Except for the stupidly awesome Hammer and DR.) without grinding and I and other PvPers could make more money through a wider amount of stuff to sell."

TL;DR: "I want to sell recipes with my many coins."

NonPvPer:
I do not enjoy Lockdown or Blast Network because it's either too laggy, the people there are too powerful, or because I just don't enjoy such games. But I really want this recipe from Sullivan, My friend would gladly sell it to me but he can't because it's bound upon purchase. I understand the Hall of Heroes recipes binding on purchase because they're part of missions. But why bind recipes you can only get from doing PvP games? I don't want to have to grind stuff I don't like to do just to get a recipe."

TL;DR: "I want to buy recipes, not be bored."

If Sullivan recipes aren't bound upon purchase, PvPers will be able to make more crowns, thus encouraging more PvP for them. (That's a reason why I've not been doing it as much; well, that and lag.) and there will be less unhappy nonPvPers in LD and Blast Network feeding others. (I hate when I have a suicider on my team, I understand people who aren't good but try but those who just plant bombs and kill themselves are annoying.)

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 00:39

#42

Wodanct

I like option B. To make it

I like option B. To make it simple, they should be unbound so those that actually like PvP can sell them to those that detest the SK version of PvP.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 01:02

#43

Pdtopgun

+1 to Balderus. That sums it

+1 to Balderus. That sums it up perfectly.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 05:45

#44

Softhead

B is btter than OPs.

Everyone is happy.

PvP experts can sell them for profit, not players can get it from others and it's "rarity" is still to there. But, if you find the prices expensive, you can Play PvP for a more "Direct" solution.

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We Need another way to get Krogmo Coins or the Recipes.