Rebalancing difficulty comments
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 19:52
Regarding rebalancing: http://forums.spiralknights.com/node/508
So I think the rebalancing is a failure.
I've got a set of Jelly armor/shield (2 star), and a blaster (2 star), and a slow, strong sword (Brandish, 2 star) with what looks like a three strike combo (2nd strike does more damage, knockback, and followup step, third strike is a fast followup).
I can wade through the top 7 levels, no problem. I found that from 1-3, all the damage dealt, hits to kill, etc, was constant for a given monster, whether it was depth 1 or 3. (This was while soloing). Ditto for depths 5-7, but this was a different set of damage per strike, hits to kill, etc. It's like two different, constant-difficulty sub-dubdungeons.
Nothing in this area was particularly a challenge, except haunted passageway. Generally, all I had to do was charge and swing. Graveyard, and maybe one other I had to do just a little cautiously -- Spawn, kill, move to the next. (I may have taken graveyard just a little too cautiously.)
So far, so good; this is a 0-1 star equipment zone, and I can solo it with no problem, even on a low frame rate system.
So what about below Moorcroft, above Emberlight? This is supposed to be a 2-3 star area, so this is supposed to be where I run with this equipment. Twice I joined a party finishing the last 2-3 levels of that area. My "threat indicator" was solid purple -- badly outclassed and overly deep on the last level. It was NOT constant on all levels -- unlike 1-3 and 5-7, which were basically constant difficulty, this area seemed to get harder with each floor.
Next, I joined someone for a two person run from Moorcroft down. I joined after the party lobby, so I didn't get the +2 vitapod. In the 6 or 7 levels that we played, I think I saw three vitapods -- one was a +18 (and I think it was a treasure chest with an energy door), two were +4. That, along with the +8 that the person I joined had from the party lobby were it. So my previous observations of seeing one per floor is no longer valid.
This was on a Microsoft Windows machine. A "Geoforce 4 in name only" video card that still does high frame rates on high quality.
The threat color kept getting worse. For the most part, the "just charge and swing" strategy worked. Instead of leaving hearts behind, I was taking damage and healing. But it worked well enough. There was a death, and a revive from my party mate. And a break to recharge to full.
Then came the next group of 4. I think it started with a red threat; this is the level group that winds up solid purple by the end. Here I had to stay at range and shoot. Two or three levels in, on Blight Boulevard, we got clobbered. After spending several revives trying to revive my partner in battle, and being unable to kill anyone (and I don't recall if it was healers or regeneration totems), I gave up when the revive cost went up to 160.
So ... what's my conclusion?
First, levels 1-7 are just too easy for 2 star gear.
Second, while 2-star is supposed to be in the range for levels 9-12 and 14-17, it just isn't. It certainly isn't at the deeper end, and was giving me trouble before then.
If I were playing with two-star, it looks like I want to stay only to the 9-12 zone. That means that at crossroads of adventure at 13, I want to head back to town. Right now the party cannot split up, so that means I'm a party pooper. I either force everyone else to return, or I have to quit (which I understand gives me a penalty), or I have to solo.
But it seems worse than that. I'll check again, probably tomorrow, but it seems like there's perhaps 2, or at most 3 of those 4 levels that are actually "challenge but doable". Since I cannot keep going up, down, up, down, to stay in the doable area, I'm forced to go through "too easy" and "harder than I want" to play.
The conclusion here is that you have four grades of equipment, but only 2 real grades of play zones in the arcade. The only star level of equipment that counts is 1, 3, and 5 star equipment (or 4 if you don't have 5 star available). Zero star is obsolete as soon as you stop running firefly, and it really does not upgrade (no one star recipes). Two star equipment seems to exist only to upgrade to three star, and does not seem to serve any other purpose.
So what's possible solutions? If you want two-star and three-star people to play together, then two-star people have to be able to play there -- that really means you can't have big differences between the two levels. Or, you need a way for two star people to play more than just a couple of levels and then say "I'm gonna die, I wanna go home".
Yes, my next step will be to upgrade to three-star. Troika recipe seems craftable, and I don't know the armors well enough (wiki page seems to be both incomplete and out of date.) I may just upgrade my jelly set -- piercing (Bramble! Spikes! Too deadly!) still seems to be the nastiest thing out there, but elemental is starting to be noticeable.)
EDIT: Bramble is no longer piercing! It's no longer "Jelly is great!". Do I want the better normal armor, do I want to get elemental, or do I want to guard against floor spikes? Yuckie.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 19:57
#2
Yes, I play :-).
I've got
Yes, I play :-).
I've got about 2,000 energy.
Generally, I only go through mist, although I'll spend some crystal for revives or an extra floor or two.
On the other hand, I won't start a run if I have no more mist. So generally, I get one long, or two short runs, in a day. Max.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 20:03
#3
Out of curiosity, you've been
Out of curiosity, you've been playing the game regularly for over a month now. Why are you still running around with 2 star gear and weapons?
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 20:14
#4
Because I don't believe in a
Because I don't believe in a race to the top?
Because for a long time I had no crystal energy, and only bought some CE to play the exchange? (And kept my crystal trades on a different character)
Because I don't have tons-of-crowns, even now?
Because I'm trying to get my three-star stuff by crafting, given that crafting can produce special stuff?
Because when I made my jelly set, it was three star?
Because I wanted to, post rebalancing, test the actual "does it work as intended" in the below moorcroft zone?
Because idle timeouts kept knocking me back to Haven?
Because I finally got up to full heat on this set today?
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 20:15
#5
Lol
Clearly, I touched a nerve.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 20:50
#6
Nope
The only thing that really matters is to have a good weapon, you shouldn't be getting hit by monster at all.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 20:58
#7
Maybe try to bring about your ideas in a less critical...
I think poor Curtai is just fed up with everyone criticizing him for his, well... criticism. Most of his "Because"'s have something to do with an apparent "mistake" TRD has made in their development of SK.
Honestly, Curtai, I think if you "toned down" your voice a bit, and brought about your ideas and a less criticizing way, people wouldn't lose their patience with you so easily. I am on the forums reading stuff quite often, and I've read most of your past stuff. Personally, I agree with and can understand a lot of your ideas, as many of your suggestions seem reasonable and would serve as good implementations. However, you often do seem to have a bit of a "snippy" tone, and I believe this is what (for the most part) ticks people off; causing them to leave (nevertheless pointless) comments about how you annoy them, spam the forum, and etcetera. Maybe try to bring about your ideas in a less critical/demanding way, and perhaps put yourself in the (seven) Dev's shoes every so often? But aside from that, some of the users on these forums do need to grow up (though this thread seems to be holding it's patience so far). If you really are annoyed by Curtai that much, might I suggest ignoring him and moving on? It's quite a useful thing to be able to do, that it is.
Dr. Phil out.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 20:57
#8
Dodge now, log later: How to play the new update
To answer some comments:
First, I may be in the minority that very much respects Curtain's willingness to test the low levels and look at balancing. Half his posts are an unreadable mess, and he needs a good editor- but there's also a lot of good information, with a really detailed beta tester's willingness to try every platform/ graphics card / driver combo and click buttons that we'd all ignore. It's an attitude that has encouraged me to work on building and testing (unpopular) bombs for the wiki, and if it helps, the existing sword and gun recipes were mostly updated earlier today.
(But seriously, Curtain: you do need a good editor)
With that out of the way, some comments on the balancing: there are absolutely enemies that are overpowered in this release- gun puppies are the worst offenders, with an option on gremlins as a close second. Now that armors have become less all-purpose, I'm hoping that we'll be given the option of swapping armors during an adventure; that would help somewhat. For new players, I recommend trying to find an experienced old hand to adventure with you; you're welcome to look me up if we're online. I suspect that your problems with getting hit so much are tied to a particular style of play, and watching different tactics might give you ideas.
However, if idle timeouts really keep "knocking you back to Haven", that points to issues with how you're focusing on the screen; alas, this is not a game that rewards pausing for a moment.
The big tips:
- The balancing update was released on monday night, followed by a 4-day holiday weekend. I fully expect more bugfixes and tweaks to come once they return. (esp wrt recipe tweaks)
- I agree that a lot of items feel like filler to bulk up the "upgrade tree". I absolutely would not want to use a toxic vaporizer Mk I as a serious weapon at ANY level, for example; the blast/cloud radius is just too small. (Half the radius = 1/4 the effect area). What we can do is offer specific examples of problems that need fixing.
- Some enemies are beatable, but only with absurd risk OR methodical play. The new release feedback thread has this info; feel free to contribute.
- Dodge more, and maniacally swordrush less.
- Go with "normal" defense for most stuff. I imagine that this will be more clear as the game develops, and more help is added for new players. But it's early days yet.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 21:08
#9
> However, if idle timeouts
> However, if idle timeouts really keep "knocking you back to Haven", that points to issues with how you're focusing on the screen; alas, this is not a game that rewards pausing for a moment.
No, it's a reference to real life making me walk away from the computer when I'm in a safe spot, and I come back and I have to log back in.
Entirely separate -- and I've F2'd this -- is that if I'm sending in bug reports of issues when I die, the "you've been dead too long, you're going back to town" effect kicks in, sometimes when I was planning on continuing. Of course, at that point, I don't have the energy for another run, so I log off.
Need an editor? Yea, I do go over my posts at least once. Sometimes I let them sit overnight in a text editor. Sometimes I forget to post them the next day, and ultimately don't.
> # Dodge more, and maniacally swordrush less.
My mac graphic card is right at the bottom of the minimum specs. I can't dodge well because it doesn't get the frame rate needed.
The Microsoft Windows machine that I sometimes use has a _BELOW_ minimum spec graphic card, and it works just fine, lets me dodge, etc. Much easier to play, but I don't have access to it all the time that I want to play.
The swordrush actually works -- as long as I land hit after hit, they don't get an attack back at me.
A tactic that I use a lot on the mac is to sit and shield, watch their attack, and predict when to swing to hit them. Sometimes works, sometimes not. Works well enough, given hearts and vials, but it's SLOW.
===
I just noticed that the only things sold in Moorcroft right now are two-star items. No three star items, no three star upgrade recipes. Not enough to get you down to Emberlight.
Intentional? Is there even a point to having merchants in Moorcroft?
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 21:16
#10
It's the same in Emberlight.
It's the same in Emberlight. Pointless. Everything is in Haven right now, so no, I don't think it is intentional. It's probably more of a "lets load everything into Haven so it can be tested first" sort of thing.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 21:33
#11
> Out of curiosity, you've
> Out of curiosity, you've been playing the game regularly for over a month now. Why are you still running around with 2 star gear and weapons?
Because I just checked, and:
- ALL of the equipment I've found in the dungeons are two-star or one-star. And I did not find any two-star until I was below moorcroft.
- ALL of the recipes I can get in Haven are two star
- ALL of the recipes I've picked up from dungeon vendors are two star
- Buying a full set of 3 star will cost me almost 60K! No wonder energy is so cheap -- people are spending real life time to avoid spending game time to improve equipment.
Are there any three star recipes out there, and where do you find them?
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 21:50
#12
Trinkets
Adding to the rebalanced discussion does anyone else find that trinkets granting defense bonuses are nearly useless. It is possible that there are some better ones out there that I haven't discovered yet (there is also no trinket wiki page, I'll get on that). For instance the Crystal Pin (dropped from a chest ages ago) only gives +6 elemental resistance, this is effectively useless after Haven. It seems much more productive to put in attack and speed boosters. I would like to see the trinkets for giving a relevant defensive boost depending on where they can be found.
I'm not surprised to see that SK runs much better on Windows versus OS X. It's no secret that OpenGL and Java have better support and run more efficiently in Windows. Also, your Apple computer is PowerPC based (not the mini-mac you mentioned a while back) and the Windows box is a Pentium 4 I'm guessing. If SK and Java can peg a Core 2 Duo (2GHz) at a solid 50% usage cycle I'd hate to see the flogging it could give a PowerPC processor.
Also for the strategies: circle strafe, even with a weak gun this works (though it takes a while)
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 21:59
#13
"Trinket" is a good name
Per trinkets: yeah, defense trinkets are not yet attractive. My heavy armor ward (4* normal defense trinket) has such a tiny bar that I haven't bothered buying the trinket slot needed to test it. I rather suspect that trinkets weren't subject to the recent balancing update, but those- and the release of new recipes- can probably be expected in the near future, in order to make armor trinkets a more viable alternative to the things sold in guild shops.
There was probably a push just to get this much out before the holiday weekend, though. (New recipes, at least, have been confirmed by the devs as coming soon)
Mon, 11/29/2010 - 00:03
#14
> Also, your Apple computer
> Also, your Apple computer is PowerPC based (not the mini-mac you mentioned a while back) and the Windows box is a Pentium 4 I'm guessing.
Yep. Both macs are 1.42 G4's with 1GB; the windows is ... actually, I don't know what speed it is, nor do I know which type of P4. It has 768KB.
Meanwhile: At depth 12, end of journey, I found a Basil with 8 recipes. All 6,250. 2 are 4 star guns, 3 (x-tech alchemers mk 2) are 3 star guns, and 3 are two-star (all vaporizer) bombs. Same price for different star levels.
... and a mk 1 alchemer (2 star) recipe that I have requires another 2-star alchemer at heat 5 before it's usable. So I wonder if I have to start by buying a 2-star, heating it up, upgrading it to another 2-star, heating that up, before I can upgrade it to a three-star.
(And this after confirming that guns aren't worth it after this patch, and I'm better off with the sword strategy I've been using anyways.)
... So, you wanted to know why I'm not yet using 3 star stuff?
> The only thing that really matters is to have a good weapon, you shouldn't be getting hit by monster at all.
Ha! Have 8 monsters spawn on you in a tiny room. Some with giant clubs, some that put you to sleep with a touch. Room is north-south, so you can't really see them well enough to dodge. Shrine of slumber.
> Most of his "Because"'s have something to do with an apparent "mistake" TRD has made in their development of SK.
Nope.
Idle timeouts: That's more annoying than anything. The lack of any save-game, any continue function: That I regard as a mistake. And I hope that will be corrected in some way by release.
Crowns: If it takes almost 60,000 crowns to buy a set of 3 star gear, and I'm fully finished with 2 star and I've only earned around 30,000 in my entire play time (but about 3 times that from energy trades if I sell all my energy trade profits), then there is a need for more recipes so I can use the lower crown cost, alchemy upgrade path (and consume all those vendor trash drops.) That's not a mistake, so much as "not yet implemented" -- I assume that the recipes will be coming. Heck, I'm assuming that all recipes will get a major work-over, just as weapons and armors just got a major work-over.
Not "most of my because's are about mistakes that TRD did. Only two big mistakes that I see, and one is actually really hard to avoid. I may be picky about low frame rate responsiveness, but the truth is that while the "how to avoid it" is known, the details are ... painful. Really painful. My gripe is that there seems to be no attempt at it at all; I don't know if there will be any put in or not.
Mon, 11/29/2010 - 00:43
#15
I'm interested in how much
I'm interested in how much CPU SK uses on your G4 system. Care to check iStat Nano, Pro, or something similar when you have SK open (not at the login screen, but in town or such) to see?
Mon, 11/29/2010 - 10:19
#16
Yes, that's essentially what I meant...
@BehindCurtai: Yes, that's essentially what I meant by developmental mistakes. Hence why I had quoted the word mistake for lack of a better word...
But that's aside the point: SK is in "beta" mode, and that's precisely why they want us to test it for them. Each major release there seems to be a bunch of things fixed and implemented, only to be countered by more of the same nature, yet to be solved or newly spawned. It will hopefully even out in time, for the most part, signaled with the official release.
Also, I agree with your pains, the Crown issue is pretty bad and idle timeouts are redundant. They should either grant more Crowns inside gates, or lower the cost of Equips. There's a lot of economic issues that would be relatively difficult to solve because the population is so small. Regardless, it seems pointless to throw basically every existent Equip at us with hindering prices. As for idle timeouts, I can definitely see where you're coming from. Twice I've had to leave the dinner table just to go flick the mouse as to not be booted off in the middle of a gate run. Hah. I really don't see the point of kicking people off for being idle too long... especially when they've spent Energy (and potentially real money) getting somewhere. It's not like there's ten-thousand players running around in Haven and they need to filter the idle ones out to save some memory.
Anyways, the power jumps from Tier 1 to 2 are way to vast. It's the same with 2 to 3, yet it is still solo-able - it just takes practice/skill and patience. I do think it should be smoothed out a bit though. Even if the overall average of the difficulty stays the same, at least make more jumps, but much smaller ones, maybe even every single depth increment.
Mon, 11/29/2010 - 10:29
#17
i was going to ignore it...but..
i need to point some things in your statment that are clearly wrong:
1. You said that the haven > moorcraft level is to easy for someone with 2 stars gear....well, OF COURSE!, the haven levels are intended to be made by 0-1 star gear, so it's obvious that a 2 star gears looks overpowered there.
2. You said that it looks like in haven > moor, the level changes only after the middle lift, while the other two runs change in a level basis. Actually, haven > moor also change in a level basis, but, as it is lower level, and as you have a stronger weapon, it is imperceptible. Of course, there is a more significant change after the middle lift, but that is because you just cchanged from tier 0 dungeon for tier 1 dungeon. Also, you might have the same issue as me in the first haven levels: you kill enemies in 1 hit of your brandish, or at most, 2, before the significannt change between tiers. So, this way, you can't notice the change, but it is there (just try to go with a tier 0 armor to see the diference).
3. About the purple danger level: i don't think it is the hardest danger level. I've seen this purple simbol a lot in zombie levels (haunted passage and graveyard), and was able to finish it quite easilly, without major problems, as in haunted passages under emberlight, i got some red danger levels, where a kat killed me in 2 hits, and i needed 3 hits of a khorovod to kill it...but, at this time, i'm not sure.
4. 2-3 star are really intended to be the floors between moor > ember, but, if you consider partying, AND if you have a full set. A 2 people party with full 2 star sets should be able to go till the return lift, WITH some chalenge. The tiers weren't done so you have an assured easy victory against the monsters at that tier, but where made to ensure that a full 2 star set would have a yellow danger level at the level right above the lift, and a full 3 stars would have an yellow, or an almost red danger level (orange? what i mean is...it is in the verge of being yellow, but it is enough to be displayed as red) at the level right before ember. This is to ensure chalenge, not to ensure that you wil be able to pass 100% of the times. It just says to you: you can go, but it is up to you to overcome the chalenges.
final notes: for now, i'm liking every aspect of the balancing (i still didn't tested the bombs, but will do it as soon as i have enough income to buy a slot upgrade).
Mon, 11/29/2010 - 10:32
#18
Proofreaders: always a good thing
Per your comments about the price of items by star level, I've added some general trends to the wiki:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Crafting#Things_Needed
It appears that recipe prices rise by 5x per star level, alchemy costs double, and the cost of pre-mades triples (...at least at high star levels).
If you see an item whose price is anomalous, report it- for example, the elemental vaporizer recipes were not repriced after their corresponding items were downgraded from 4* to 2*. Ditto for some armor recipes. That may be intentional, or it may be a bug that slipped through.
Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:38
#19
@Cien:
1. Yes, tier-1
@Cien:
1. Yes, tier-1 dungeons with tier-2 equipment is trivial.
2. To be specific: The damage I did per hit only changed across the middle. Whether I did one hit to kill, or two hits to kill only changed across the middle.
3.
> I've seen this purple symbol a lot in zombie levels (haunted passage and graveyard), and was able to finish it quite easily,
It is solely dependent on depth. Normally depth 12 is a dungeon level, but if you're in a short dungeon, 12 can be "return to moorcroft" -- with a "careful ..." threat indicator. And don't get me started on the danger inherent in treasure levels :-)
> I'm interested in how much CPU SK uses on your G4 system. Care to check iStat Nano, Pro, or something similar when you have SK open (not at the login screen, but in town or such) to see?
Generally: All that my system has to spare :-). I'll recheck after my next reboot.
Crowns: Yes, right now the supply of crowns is less than sufficient. No, that's not a problem. It's nothing more than temporary. You're not supposed to buy your equipment from vendors, you're supposed to buy them from other players (who crafted them) or craft them yourself. Vendor items are "items of last resort", just like selling to vendors is "selling of last resort". The presence of a crafting system says so.
That the system is incomplete is not a problem; merely a temporary issue. If anything, we went from "More crowns than we know what to do with" to "actual shortage of crowns". That's impressive.
> If you see an item whose price is anomalous, report it- for example, the elemental vaporizer recipes were not repriced after their corresponding items were downgraded from 4* to 2*. Ditto for some armor recipes. That may be intentional, or it may be a bug that slipped through.
I F2-bug report every such item I come across.
@Pupu:
> The only thing that really matters is to have a good weapon, you shouldn't be getting hit by monster at all.
I saw a strange oddity this morning; I'll retest it a little later tonight (I hope), and I think I've found a major difference between weapons I haven't seen documented yet.
Tue, 11/30/2010 - 08:07
#20
alright, counter attack!
1. it was not a question, it was an afirmation >_<
2. i'm not talking about damage, as my damage changes unsignificantly in those levels, at the change. But rather, i've noticed some increases in HP of the same monsters between diferent depths, before the lift.
3. i've seen this purple symbol with a 3 star helm/weapon, 2 star shield, 4 star weapon/armor, at depth 10, more or less.
Tue, 11/30/2010 - 08:34
#21
I think the difficulty jump
I think the difficulty jump from Moorcroft - Emberlight to Emberlight - unknown* is too high. Right now I can solo through from Moorcroft to Emberlight very easily and kill most monsters in 2-3 hits. My armor is 4*, my weapons are 3*. Going further than Emberlight is not an option though since I get mauled down every time. My weapons need an upgrade for sure, I know that. But I hoped the trip to saving up for that would have been more fun than having to go through Moorcroft - Emberlight a lot of times without it being anything near a challenge anymore. The thing is even, when I finally get those 4* weapons, I'll need to level them up first too before being able to go beyond Emberlight. And 4* thingies don't like levelling up fast :P
So, perhaps the depth - tier system should be more interactive with equipment level too? Something like tier 1 - 1.5 - 2 - 2.5 - 3 - 3.5 and so on? Perhaps that gets a bit much though :P But I think that either the Emberlight difficulty needs to go down, or a new town with a difficulty between Moorcroft and Emberlight needs to be created?
*Unknown to me :p
Tue, 11/30/2010 - 19:39
#22
Nope
Well, I have to say the rebalancing, while making the game harder, has completely failed in making Emberlight+ raid content.
Today I did a core run alone, killing every enemy, and died only twice at depth 28, since enemies were hitting me for 1/3 of my health there. Also, I noticed enemies never instakill you, they always leave you with atleast 1 hp, which is nice.
Here's a screenshot, equip was a korovod, a magnus, drake scale mail, heavy plate helm, swiftstrike shield, and 2 +sword aspd trinkets. Some things weren't even level 10. I never used the tempered calibur I'm carrying, it is way inferior in damage and knockback to the korov.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/images/1/10/Solo.png
It's funny because I died way less than I do with a party. Probably had to do with having all the health for myself, not having to ress anyone, and that having more players only makes killing enemies quicker, but doesn't give any other advantage.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 20:09
#23
oh, so you are tanta >_<
anyway...as i've see, the jump between 0-1* to 2-3* is quite significant, while the jump through 2-3* to 4* is significant to, talking about equipment. Now, the only problem is that the speed that these weapons/armors scale in effectivness is o outbalanced with the increase through level tiers. The intention was surelly to make things more chalenging, but, making this increase so significant is making it really, really hard, something i would exepect to be depth 28 i'm seeing at depth 23, or less. Thus, as this is the way to the core, for now, it is understandeable to make it the hardcore part of the gam, where only the better succeed, but, i sure hope that this enormeous jump in dificulty is tweaked when the next city is released, so to make it passable to less experienced players, but still chalenging to the high experienced players to reach the core.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 20:16
#24
I think the emberlight ->
I think the emberlight -> core is just balanced, since it was meant for 4*-5* equipment users, it would be too easy if they nerf the monsters.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 23:39
#25
Hmm after having done my
Hmm after having done my first run to the core, I must say that it's very doable with 4* equipment? It kinda makes me wonder if they're going to add another difficulty level there, since there'll be 5* equipment in the end too.
I do like the higher difficulty, requires me to play much more strategically, I love the challenge.
Thu, 12/02/2010 - 04:59
#26
i think so too evolution
as there isn't 5* yet, so tier 3 is meant only to 4* equips, so, when they add the 5*, probably the second half of the way to the core will be really hardened, or, if they release it with a new city, maybe it will consider this new way to the core as an entire 5* dungeon.
Thu, 12/02/2010 - 05:05
#27
For how it is right now my
For how it is right now my guess would go to badly hardening the second half of the way to the core + adding a very tough endgame at the core itself. The danger indicator is stuck at red or purple with more or less all 4* equipment when you get near the core, so that would mean our equips shouldn't be sufficient?
Thu, 12/02/2010 - 18:35
#28
not necessarelly
it just means that you will have a hard time fighting you way down...but, even a full 0* can make it to the core....but he need to have a hell good computer, with a hell good conection, to ensure less lag, a hell out of patience, and, of course, would need to be really good to be able to throw this move...maybe someone that already got bored in fighting it's way with a 4*, so he got back one level (may happen, just search for those sick speedruns for games...people that got bored of easyness (not all)>_<).
Thu, 12/02/2010 - 23:44
#29
> I'm interested in how much
> I'm interested in how much CPU SK uses on your G4 system. Care to check iStat Nano, Pro, or something similar when you have SK open (not at the login screen, but in town or such) to see?
Alright, fresh reboot, paging turned on, everything that can be turned off turned off. Graphical programs: Finder, Dock, Terminal, SK. (No dashboard, no browsers, etc.)
Measurements by "top -u -s 5" (lower overhead than activity monitor.)
Java has CPU of 80 to 85% normally. Level was "deconstruction zone" at depth 1.
After taking out most of the gremlins and a few puppies, I turned on Quartz Debug, just to turn on the frame per second meter. Java's CPU drops to 60-65%. Frame rate is about 7 FPS in the middle of the floor (moving, or sitting still), and 12 FPS in a corner (sitting still). (1024x600). If I'm looking at about 30-35% more frames without QD running, then it's about 10 FPS for normal action, and that looks smooth, and I'm learning how to fight with that. But fighting "safely", conservatively, takes 20-30 minutes to do a level typically.
In the corner, going from "Low" to "Medium" (or "high") dropped fps from 12 to 6 (estimating 8 fps when QD not running).
Wow, do you even play the game? You seem to be posting a lot of long posts... Lol sorry I just wanted to say that...
They are still working on rebalancing everything, so please be patient.