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Bombs with a standard attack: Viable or impossible? (Read before reaching for torch/pitchfork/torch pitchfork)

6 replies [Last post]
Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:21
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar

"HE SUGGESTED THE UNTHINKABLE! KILL HIM! BURN HIM AT STAKE!"

Now, we know bombs once had a standard attack. But it was too powerful. It provided the full radius and effect of the bomb while allowing three to be spammed at once, and charging only added a little bitty damage bonus. Shard bombs provided the best damage output, as you can imagine (three slightly less damage RSS bombs at once IS overpowered). And I shudder to think at the sheer might of Haze Bombs and their upgrades if they had the same effect... if VT had been like that, Mercurial would have been the Skolver of the day in PvP.

Three Rings saw this, and naturally, they removed bombs' normal attacks. Now they only have charges. But this comes with problems of its own- I'm lookin' at YOU, Greavers.

What I propose is a toned-down version. Allow bombers to lay up to three bombs at once (before 'reloading' with an animation that looks like reaching into our pockets) with a standard attack- but these bombs will not be nearly as strong as the charged version.

Here's each standard attack I propose for each line of bombs.

Blast Bombs (Nitro, BAB, Irontech, Decon, and DBB lines) would lay tiny grenades that deal some minor damage and knockback. Hitting with all three would be required to outdamage a fully charged Nitro- but it would take skill to do that! The blast would be one to two spaces wide, at MOST, so don't freak out.

Dark Retribution (and its predecessors) would lay smaller versions of themselves that have one tiny orb for a small amount of time in addition to a small initial Shadow-damage blast. The radius is the same, and the orb operates in this tiny radius for about two seconds (one-third the time of a regular DR).

Old Shard Bombs, if kept, would not have a central explosion, but rather would shoot four much weaker shards out at a slightly scattered distance; if the blast was dead-center on a square, the four shards would shoot one at each corner, and wouldn't be able to multihit anything smaller than a Lumber (if that). The damage and range of the shards would be much less.

New Shard Bombs would have a tiny explosion and shoot out two shards that made two more tiny explosions.

Haze Bombs would emit a much smaller cloud that lingered for much less than the time of a charged Haze, with very minor damage. Not nearly enough to hold a chokepoint, but enough to make your getaway from a tough foe (read: Deadnaught). They would inflict a Minor status even if Haze Bomb charges were changed to Moderate (which they really oughta be, becauses Skolvers, even with max Shock UVs, SHOULD NEVER BE IMMUNE TO VT, and Stagger Storm? Please, nobody can 'harmlessly subdue dangerous species' in four measly seconds).

Vortex Bombs would pull enemies in for half a second and then make their own tiny blast.

There, see? Not so powerful. But enough to give each bomb a new use, and put us on par with gunners and swordies against certain enemies (Greavers, for example). It'd also make Nitro less detested by parties, as you could just lay three small Nitros instead of one big one.

Compliments? Suggestions? Problems? If anything here seems overpowered, by all means tell me!

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:45
#1
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Baby boomers

I know in beta bombs were usable without the charge, but now that we have it the mechanic seems more fitting. To set the bomb you have to prepare it first. To make the little monkey clap the cymbals you have to wind it up first. Compare the difference between the Sudaruska charge to its basic swings. The basic swings are somewhat lame, but the charge attack blasts enemies away with great damage; in pure normal damage. Would it be fair to give that blasting knockback to the basic attack? No. Does it still do damage with the basic attack? Yes, but not as much as the charge; because you had to plan ahead to use that charge attack. With bombs you are supposed to specialize in area of effect, but in reality you have to plan ahead and play more intelligently while swordsmen vomit pointy things on the enemies and gunners throw rocks. What do bombers do? According to most, blow stuff up; for an avid bomber, the charge attack forces you to plan ahead when and where to attack before you can rock. If the proposed changes are made it would counter the point of planned combat as a bomber with dominating area of effect coverage, making us basically swordsmen with more radius based attacks rather than the swing patterns swords have.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:29
#2
Trollingyou's picture
Trollingyou
Anyone can take advantage of planning

Anyone can take advantage of planning. Instead of wildly attacking a bunch of mobs you can first kite them to crowd them up then release a dangerous troika/brandish/leviathan/alchemer/whatever charge on them. Bomb may be able to do it more efficiently than the aforementioned, but they lack the ability to do quick attacks like guns and swords can, primarily to finish off that mob low on health or to make an escape. I don't see a reason why not to let them have this, although it shouldn't be more efficient than swords or guns. The OP's suggestions do not seem to be OP in any way except one possible issue: how the reload works.

Would the bombs reload work like the guns? If so, we might start seeing the "shoot-stop-shoot" thing with bombs, so they won't face reloading, which will be a problem. It'd be like the T3 gremlin bomb spammers on steroids. If however, the reload was forced, the suggestion would be just fine. If it was forced though, there should be no movement penalty while reloading to offset this.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 14:47
#3
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar
SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS

@Trolling: Yeah, Reload's forced. That, or limit 3 bombs on the field at once; like in Blast Network, but it's always 3.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:19
#4
Oatmonster's picture
Oatmonster
Lick

Although I don't think this would be too over powered if the damage were scaled correctly, I think it would take away what make bombs bombs.

Guns reload as you shoot, swords have combos with increasing damage, and bombs require charging before attacks.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 16:55
#5
Akvar's picture
Akvar
+1

I think this could work if damage was set at the lower end. I had also thought of a bomb that was similar in that you could place 3 of them at a time then charge to detonate all 3 or however many you have laid at the time of charging. It would be a great bomb for leading monsters or PvPers into traps.

Sat, 07/28/2012 - 17:25
#6
Autofire's picture
Autofire
Naw

It doesn't seem fit somehow.

Now if we had a separate kind of bomb that, with the charge, would be thrown, THAT might work, although idk.

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