Except the mk2 puppys, when they are in a number higher than 5, in a small room, unreacheable by melee, shooting at you at the same time, at ember...T.T

Now...let's talk:

>>I liked your idea of second level status, ,but i would like to disagree with some mechanichs you suggested:
-When you are inflicted by both status, they don't merge, but rather a third icon appears to show you your state, without a timer. When one of the 2 effects wear off, also the added effect will.
-30 seconds imunity is to long. I would rather say that the player get imunity to the effects in play right now, along with the added effect, and stay with this imunity till the end of both effects, and, at most, a bonus 5 seconds to let the player position itself out of range. As there aren't to many monsters that can inflict those status, appart from tortodrones, to the shock+stun, then it would be really iverpower if you add an imunity for such a rare ocasion (of course, later one could be specific status causing groups of monsters...but now...no).
-Poison+shock could be called "Coma", nstead of "Toxic Shock"...it appears more reasonable to me...and also don't looks like t is a pokemon attack >_< (but, wathever, we have pokeballs anyway).
-There could be a Fire+Freeze effect, that could be called "Steam": it would not cause damage over time, and would be the exact opposite to the freeze: the player/monster would be unable to shield, and unable to stop walking until the end of the status effects. He would be running amock endlesly untill dead, or cured. Also, any other itens appart from health and status cure pills would be unusable, and, adding to it all, the affected would not be able to charge, nor able to do more than one attack at a time (including monsters...i would suggest, right now, that monsters had normal, really low damagind attacks, that don't need to be charged, and don't stop players from attacking).
-Let's add some ideas here:
--Poison+fire: Fire fever: the player takes damage over time, can't heal, and can't attack at all, only being able to shield. This effect would reduce the effet time of poison, so it don't last as long, and thus don't making this one rather op
--Poison+curse: Leecher: you receive damage when you attack, have lower attack power, and, to top it up, enemies that hit you will absorb a little of the damage as health. Effect time of poison reduced to balance it.

will come with more ideas...and will read you post entirelly when i ahve the time...but not now. c ya all.

@shoebox:

"Every button has a set function, and that's pretty much unalterable". That's part of the problem, actually.

Attack button: You cannot control if you do a combo, a normal attack, an inspect, a lift object, etc. Maybe you want to use your sword to do repeated normal attacks to avoid walking forward into a disaster. Maybe you want to swing and retreat, like you can shoot and retreat. You cannot. You cannot even avoid inspecting something if you move too close to an inspectable in combat. And it seems that you cannot revive a fallen party member if a monster is in attack range.

Shields: You'd think that it would be possible to drop shield, attack, raise shield, giving you a minimum time of exposure. No, if your shield is put back up too quickly, your attack is aborted. Yet on my Mac, when it's in low frame rate combat, I can stop attacking, and put up my shield, and it behaves like queued up attack orders must be finished before my shield will go up.

You completely left out the whole "Move forward / move backwards" controls. Normally "Move forward" is bound to primary mouse button (documented as left mouse button; if you play on a left handed computer you'll find that this is wrong.), and move backwards is not bound. Yet you can bind that to another control, and aim and retreat while firing.

"It lacks a sense of technical depth"
*** DIFFICULTY OF CONTROL IS NOT A GOAL ***

I don't want a game that is difficult to control.

I want a sense of *TACTICAL* depth, not technical depth.

You can add that with a simple case of zones of control, a frontline person able to block creatures from going behind, etc.

Wolvers are a disaster as far as balance goes. Sure, ash wolves that has *TELEPORT* as an ability -- Fine, let them go behind you. But other wolves doing a charge out of nowhere that cannot be interrupted to artificially get a sneak attack on you? *LAME*.

If your goal is Technical depth, then go play the sequel to Defender. That game was practically playing a piano. I don't want technical depth at all. I'll leave the game if it becomes forced to be that bad.

Separating attack from action? Good.
Give me an "Abort queue and shield" defense command? Good.
Give me the ability to say "My shield drops, and I start charging my attack"? Good. (You'd be surprised at how often I wind up with shield down and my attack not charging.)
Give me the ability to say "Drop shield and attack"? Good.

Give me the ability to keep my shield up while I do something else? Right now I can only do that if I put my shield on a mouse button, and then I'm forced to a single hand -- and I can't do that at all on a trackpad.

Now, your specifics:
1. Vials: I don't understand what you are trying to do here. I don't understand this section at all. Sorry.
2. Bombs: I agree that bombs need a major overhaul. The whole "You have to charge before use, and your charge is lost if you are hit" makes bombs a non-starter. Maybe an upgraded/heated bomb is fast enough, combined with some other "charge reduction" item, but that still means that a plain bomb is useless.

Beyond that, it looks like you are describing a completely new item, and calling it a bomb. So suggest a new item type.

3. Swords: Ahh. Now I see what you mean by "Technical".

** This isn't a "Memorize umpteen different attack combos" fighting game ***

Repeat: This isn't a street-fighter type of game where you memorize that right-left-twirl-punch-kick does a flying summersault with a half-twist landing.

If that's what you want, please go elsewhere.
If that's what we get, I will go elsewhere.

4. Guns: See swords.

5. Trinkets: Again, I think you are describing a completely new mechanic, and giving it an existing name. If you want a new mechanic, say so.

Your comment about "Just doubling up the same trinket" is a serious issue. Easiest solution is to say "you cannot use two of the same trinket". And frankly, I think trinkets are way too weak right now.

Shoebox don't start swearing please. He's making some valid points in his replies. Points that dont agree with your OP perhaps. But you can't expect everybody to agree on your ideas, and neither should you not try to think where those opposing ideas come from.. you have your view, he has his. Try to understand his too rather than make such a hassle about it?

i like the idea of a new iten in substituiton of our bombs, because bombs now are only help weapons, rather than secondary, and we need to pay 150-200 CE a month to be able to use then to the fullest, as a third weapon (now i don't remeber the cost). Having a bomb system that don't need us to buy a slot to be useable in some way is good, mostly because it would let us use our 4 slots more tatically.
also, he is not suggesting a new iten system with a new iten (mines), he is suggesting a total change in the bomb system itself, removing the actual bombs, and adding this new system to compensate.

first, i need to say..it was the thing that i least expected in an mmo....your age that is it, buuuuuut, this still doesn't change some tihngs...now, to the defendant's chair:
(edit): 46?!?

>Alright, if you know more about computer games than console ones, then try to tell us wich parts of the game itself you are refering: gameplay (what parts of the gameplay), ideas, systems, and so on, and not just throw the name and hope for someone to actually look at the internet to see what are you talking about. Stargate, as i said previously, is more known now as a tv series than a game, and i must say that, even the people that actually played the game, will need some time to ring the bell and remember the game, after rulminating the series out. Gauntlet isn't a very known game just because it wasn't so spread out in console games as it was in computer games (i played on version for PS), thus, making less probable that people will understand your references. Resuming: if you want to refere to another game that you know, fine, but outline what you want the people to know, what is important for the idea you are trying to show, and not simply saying to put the entire game as a reference (putting only the name is more or less like saying "see it all and try to rip ideas from it as most as you can"). This is valid even if iss for games like final fantasy series, megaman, and so on (a lot of people know about them, but, from these people, some actually only know it by name, and some can't remember some things, so saying to be sure is a good excercise).

>A side note here: i'm a nerd, not a geek: this means that i'm the kind of people that like to study, and geeks are the evolution of nerds, that now a lot of things from a single area, considered strange or diferent to the people in general, more focused at eletronics and fiction (i'm not trying to mock or insult anyone here, is just the way that i see things). Just to translate: you said a lot of things about computer and the star treek series...well...it was just dust in the wind for me, i never saw an entire series of star trek, and never cared to see it all, and i don't know much about computer insides and so on (you can just see that i can use a computer quite well, but i'm not concerned with wich video card i'm using, nor with how much ROM i have (that i thought it was 4Gb until yesterday, when i discovered it was 2Gb.)..i know some things of java programing that i learnt at universty, if it helps).

>Swords are meant to be aggressive at the time they are called weapons. Adding tatics to parry, get out of the way, and defend, even using the own sword, don't comes from the sword sharpness, but from the person who wield it (a person that wields well a sword can give it sword to someone untrained, and the untrained will lose badly). The point here, as you said about judo, is adding systems that actually let you use a sword in a defensive way, not transforming it in a defense/attack weapon, but in an addapted weapon style to a sword (i'm doing this quite frequently in pvp, by the fact that i'm timing better my attacks with the attacks of others, so i can use the best time to rush in with a combo, and the better time to do a single hit and shield back). Acting as a bastard sword fighter can turn to be a good defensive measure, as if you act unpredictable, while evading, and then rely on strenghtned sword hits to outclass some of the defenses, you can actually do a number on the opponent, but only if are skilled enough to it.

>as direct game references, i was trying to say: stop just adding a name and letting it be, so only people that know the game or people that bothered to search it canc omment (i don't bother, because i would need ot paly to understand clearly what are you saying, and i don't need more games to get in the way of some problems that i'm having). But this was already discussed some > above.

>again about the age (now that the number 46 fixed in my mind): no, by any means, it makes you anything at all that we might get concerned. You do as you please, and it is only problem to you (and maybe the guy that you try to throw the soda can, of this is one of the things you would wish to do). Just do what pleases you, and let you have some fun. I'm just impressed that there where oldies (sorry for the term, but you have almost the age of my father) that actually play mmos (i know that they exist, but just was not expecting to find one in a closed beta). correction: you seen to strict...as i would let a child paly this game..i would be reluctant only if it avtually begin to show bloody pools, or some kind of animated intuitive violence (like sometimes dividing an enemy in 2 in a comic way)...i think this game can easilly be rated with the same rate zeda, link to the past was (but i'm not the one that is taking care of your children, so, educate them as you please).

>References make conversations short enough to be possible. I don't complain when people make a lot of references to console games that I've never heard of. I try to understand from context as much as I can.; just wanted t ouline this test in particular: i'm jsut daying this because your references could not be refered to any contest at all (you began a topic saying something like "this game could be more like gauntlet.", and that's it, no contest to put it in...i'm not saying to don't put references (if you think a reference is important, and want to outline the main idea, do it. i, almost all times, get excited and write a lot of what i want people to see in the game too...but at least, every game reference that had something to do with the topic i outlined the main idea that i was trying to show, as the golem system from legend of mana. I do said something like okami and zelda, but, the only think people needed to know is that they are dungeon crawlers, so, no more to add))

Finishing one more long post...maybe we could gain forum points depending on the number of letters used in posts (a rac to the top between me and curtain)(this idea is a joke, please, consider it as a joke).

mostly because curtain have a title to get himself >_<

...however, there is always the possibilitty to ge the status to both of us... (sad face)

stop whiming...behindcurtai might be oldie, but now you are acting like a ranting child...
put your ideas, and see the critics, and respond to bad critics, and defend your ideals...what you are doing now is fleeing, as you know that no one will disagree with you via e-mail suggestion, but you do know that, even if they rear you att he e-mail suggestion, there's a higher chance of a better thing to come out if everyone helps lapidate an idea, and that's what we do here (with some/ a lot of oftopics, but get on with it, this is a beggining forum of a closed beta game, not a full forum of a released game, so this is normal, and most people do it for fun).

Let's see if i can help by suggesting anything more and going on topic again:

Just one thing, though: i was reading your gun ideas, and read the gun switch to sword...actually, i do agree with the part of continuing a combo by switching weapons, but, not the way you suggested. I would more likelly to use a combo that uses the actual combo number of the weapon. Example: you use a sword with 2 hits, a gun with 2 hits, and a sword with 3 hits. If you change for the gun after the first sword hit, then it will do the second shot, and cooldown as it is the last shot, thus, you can't add a third attack with the other sword, but, if it was 2, 3, 3, then you would be able to add the third attack with another weapon. Actually, with this change, i would be most likelly be able to combo very well a shot followed by a khoro seconder, adding to the combo very well...and, just adding, i hate the fact that if i change weapons and fastly attack, it will attack with the previous weapon, then change, even if i pressed the commands the opposite...i got killed so many times because this.

>Alright, if you know more about computer games than console ones, then try to tell us wich parts of the game itself you are refering: gameplay (what parts of the gameplay), ideas, systems, and so on,

Ok.

Stargate: You had to shoot alien invaders, and protect people on a planet. Invaders basically came in two types (technically 3), there were landers who would try to pick up a person, and if they took one to the top, they turned into an ultra aggressive nasty. If all of the humans were killed, your planet was destroyed, you were fighting in space, and all of those "landers" would start the level as the ultra aggressives. If you shot a lander carrying a person, the person would fall to the ground, and die if they went splat -- you had to catch them.

The "best" strategy turned out to be: Kill 9 of your 10 people, to prevent the nasty aliens, and then protect that one. Some people even went as far as to carry that last one, to make sure that no nasty aliens can occur.

The controls: An up/down joystick, a reverse button, a fire button, and a smart bomb/superzap button. One stick, 3 buttons.

Stargate -- the sequel -- had, if I recall, 6 buttons, new aliens to make that strategy unworkable, "carriers" that would split into 6 (?) enemies if shot, an alien battle plan that put all of those carriers in one spot before they opened up, with their location marked on your map, and even telling you how many seconds until their bunch-up -- literally, the game was saying, "your smart bomb is intended for use in this one spot, at this one time, and you have to fight your way there to use it"

Stargate was horrifically deadly. As I said, the arcade where they took playtesting information turned out to be the arcade where the world champion defender player played. I don't know if they ever patched that.

The issue I was referring to regarding these two was the controls of stargate: Too many buttons! I don't even remember what they all did.

Gauntlet: You went down into an endless series of dungeon levels. Some had room layouts that made "sense"; some seemed to be random assortments of hallways. Some would be similar, but not identical, to others -- the minor differences meant that almost identical levels took very different strategies. One of the features was "traps" that would make walls disappear, as well as walls made of "doors" that would open by using a key -- very similar to the "shoot this block and all connected walls go poof" feature that we have.

Gauntlet is the closest thing to this game that I've seen in the arcades. The biggest difference is that we don't have "Generators" that spawn endless waves of monsters (depending on the game's difficulty switches, roughly a 20% to 80% "fill" rate for a corridor), and the monsters that we do have tend to be harder to kill. Additionally, the "ghosts" in that game were single damage infliction -- they hit you, they go away. They don't stay around and keep hitting you.

Some of the levels -- the layouts, etc -- would make great levels for this game.

Star Trek: Well, I thought my examples would be well-enough known. In one, Spock -- an alien from a culture with a high value on logic over emotions -- dies at the end of one movie, and is brought back to life in the next movie. Later, he is asked what death is like, and responds (approximately), "We have no common experiences to reference. I cannot describe it."

As for Data, he is the first fully intelligent android (talk about not understanding computers -- roughly 400 years from now and only just getting a computer brain able to think as well as a human brain), however, he has no emotional response at all, at least, not initially. (The sequel series' version of Spock from the first series.) When he does get an emotion chip installed (yea, one chip to enable emotions -- go figure :-), one of the first things he does is catalog specific emotional responses -- as in, "This sense of anger is not quite the same as that sense of anger", and catalogs over 1,000 different emotions in under 24 hours. In an earlier episode, where he gets a momentary burst of emotions, he tries to discuss what emotions are, and what they feel like, with an engineer on board the ship, and asks, (again, paraphrased), "Can you describe anger without referring to another emotion?", to which the engineer answers, "no".

The point of these two was to indicate the important of references, and shared, common references.

Oh: "your references could not be referred to any contest at all ": The word you want is "Context", with an "X". You have the same misspelling multiple times.

As for a race for forum posts, well, you lose :-). Look at the puzzle pirates forums, and see who [s]leads[/s] [b]is in second place for[/b] the top post count over there.

sorry for not telling that i knew some parts of the star trek series (and saw the recent movie), i just intended to say that i was not too familiarized to remeber each text of an specific episode.

Now, let's try to minimize it a little, just some people don't beggin ranting against us by the lenght of our posts:

-No need to describe when the game was released, for wich plataform, or strategies of the game itself, unless it concerns deeply to the thread;
-About stargate, you could simply resume to something like: "stargate was a game where you need to protect your people from invading aliens, that would try to get your people. There where only 3 buttons (reverse direction, fire, and super bomb), and the joystick up/down. When the sequel was released, they added so there was 6 buttons and the joystick, where the main dificulty passed to be masterizing the buttons rather then masterizing thechics and strategys. Putting it here, it would be the same as changing priorities of a game dificulty." (here, resumed your 10 line text in an almost 3 line text, saying what you wanted too (i hope);
-about gauntlet, you could had let out some of the infos about rooms, or not told some of them, as here in this post, you could only say that the level formation was pretty similar, apaprt from the specific diferences that you would outline (door walls, similar levels that required completelly diferent strategys to pass, and so on). The spawn rate is an undesarible extra here, as the developers would know that it is insane to make somthing spawn endleslly monsters to lag our life.
-i think most of the information regarding star trek is extra, and doesn't concern about this thread at all, but i'm to lazy and late to try to resume it (also, i thought that spock was an alien/vulcan, that are born with the capacity to supress totally their emotions, to let them think rationally to the extreme, and not a computer at all. you said in the first part that it was an alien, but them changed it saying it was a computer brain/android).

-You have the same misspelling multiple times. Thanks, teacher
I'm Brazilian, and i must admit that i know far much more about english than the great part of this country, but, i'm not "fluent" in writing, and you would have your ears bleeding in no time if you tried to understand me talking in english, mostly because of drastic speech errors...But i try (most of what i learnt was by self tutoring, while playing video-games, because i wanted to understand what the people where talking, and mostly because i like RPGs, and you can't progress in any RPG if you don't read the texts (now it is right, know it all >_<).

This is the thread that never ends
It goes on and on my friends
Someone started qq'ing
And not enough pewpewing
And they'll continue adding to forever because...

This is the thread that never ends
It goes on and on my friends
Someone started qq'ing
And not enough pewpewing
And they'll continue adding to forever because...

This is the thread that never ends
It goes on and on my friends
Someone started qq'ing
And not enough pewpewing
And they'll continue adding to forever because...

This is the thread that never ends
It goes on and on my friends
Someone started qq'ing
And not enough pewpewing
And they'll continue adding to forever because...

rose made a poem for this thread, and shoebox finally showed how he fell towards another person...cuteness in person (sarcasm only to shoebox, but i liked how you make your poem rose >_<).

Let's try to stay on topic...

About the trinkets, i more or less agree with your idea, but i'd rather have these as secret achievments, where you gain just one of the trinket, rathe than a main way to get trinkets (if i understood your idea).

as my title said. Visual equips in some harder achievments, usefull untreadable equips for harder ones, some crowns and heat (and itens, sometimes) for most of them. But, for some achievs, it would need to have a little more requeriments to make them worth. Examples:

-Finish a tier 1 floor without receiving damage, using a full tier 1 armor, without trinkets, to receive a visual equip, along with crowns and heat;
-Go from Haven to Moorcraft using full tier 1, without trinkets, and without receiving more than 6 damage, to receive a 2* exclusive equip, along with crowns and heat;
-Repeat both of the above for higher tiers, but add 1 trinket max for moor, and 2 trinkets max for ember;
-Kill a determined number of a monter race (devil, beast, construct) to get crowns and heat;
-Kill a determined number of a specific monster (fired deviling, healer gremlim, ironwood) to get a visual equip set based on that monster;
-Get X amount of a kind of material to open a kind of trade NPC, that let you trade huge amount of materials for crowns, more than its sell value at normal NPC (at the current rate, it could be something like 300 crowns for 80 0* equip);

PS joke:
-Kill a shield gremlin without receive damage, using a tier 1 full set, without trinkets: 300.000k crown, level 10 5* full set, with weapons, trinkets, and shield included. Also, invincibilitty against the frst 1k goblins at each level.