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About Featured Auctions and promo items

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Mar, 08/07/2012 - 18:19
Imagen de Tersakaff
Tersakaff

OOO, don't.
Don't you remember the negative reaction from the community with the 1st gen Regalia?
Please, don't do that again. With anything.

We do need variety but NOT promo items. Some people kept some just to resell later, it's a business, that you're affecting, in a negative way. So, please, don't.

It's really not something the community wants or likes, so please don't do it. :< (I am not stating that I know the absolute will of the community, it is simply something I've noticed on the forums and in-game that may not apply to everybody)
We do like variety but not with promo items...

Give a +1 if you agree, to show OOO that they shouldn't be doing this.

Edit: Here I've answered a few arguments you might bring up: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/61776#comment-458155

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 18:31
#1
Imagen de Lightyourfire
Lightyourfire
+1

Bringing back old promos is practically the one thing I don't like about how OOO runs Spiral Knights. You should have seen me when I found out that two more of the main things on my signature set, what I call my Fire Suit(which secretly but not a secret as of now is based off a Charizard) were available in the last promo.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:00
#2
Imagen de Villainus
Villainus
+1

I must admit that I appreciate the new items on the auction (rare mohawks!) but I would prefer promo items to stay with the promo.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:08
#3
Imagen de Milkman
Milkman
-1

As much as I don't like seeing promo items on the featured auctions, the only reasons against it (that I can think of) are selfish. From OOO's perspective there is little to no reason for not doing this (as long as they don't go overboard and add large amounts of one promo item to the featured auctions).

Also you have no idea what the community wants or likes, don't speak on their behalf.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:16
#4
Imagen de Retequizzle
Retequizzle
-1

"Also you have no idea what the community wants or likes, don't speak on their behalf."

Bingo. I personally have no problem with promo items being released on the Auction House and in fact encourage it. I wouldn't want to see a huge influx of items mind you, as Milkman has already pointed out himself, but I see absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be up there - and by reason, I mean something that would go against the community directly, and not just a few players here and there.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:38
#5
Imagen de Rommil
Rommil
well then

give me groundbreaker armor/helm and steam mask on featured auctions.

Either its all sacred or none of it is.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:40
#6
Imagen de Milkman
Milkman
Promo items and groundbreaker

Promo items and groundbreaker are different things. Don't be silly.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:43
#7
Imagen de Pokenuevo
Pokenuevo

Milkman spoke the words I was going to say. As long as OOO keeps it calm, I see no harm. Promo and rare items on the featured auctions are rare and are super-duper expensive. Whoever gets it will probably spend more than its original worth.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:44
#8
Imagen de Canozo
Canozo
--

Heh, im too poor for featured auctions.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:47
#9
Imagen de Rommil
Rommil
different to you

but not to everyone. Just as tersk doesn't speak for the whole community neither do you. I am a member of the community, and i feel like both promo items and groundbreaker gear were limited time only deals. But now they have set a precedent for re-releasing limited edition gear. Same thing with 1st gen rose regalia.

OOO has stated that they have the right and intention of putting anything on featured auctions that they think players might want. (paraphrasing).

--and i don't mean that as snarkey as it sounds. i like you milkman :)
--but again, either things are sacred or they are not. Just as people who didn't invest in promo items don't think there is anything wrong in them being re-introduced by a "third party" many of us who started the game a month late do not feel like there would be anything wrong with the reintroduction of those items via "3rd party"

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:47
#10
Imagen de Little-Juances
Little-Juances

The feeling that the item would never come back and become rare was an incentive to buy more energy packs during promos.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:48
#11
Imagen de Milkman
Milkman
Groundbreaker was not a deal

Groundbreaker was not a deal of any kind. It was an award, a 'thank you', for those who helped beta tested the game. Nobody tested the game for the purpose of getting the groundbreaker set. Promotional items are purchased with (but not exclusively) with CE 'deals'.

Also I never spoke for the whole community. Don't put words in my mouth.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 19:57
#12
Imagen de Headbash
Headbash
-1

Let more people have it -and keep promo items as bonus not 'investment' . Also suggestion forum ;p

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 20:02
#13
Imagen de Venomousbiohazard
Venomousbiohazard
-1

It is unfair to people who havent been around for the promos. I always thought it a little bit evil to keep promo items for a few months and wait for it to cost more. I know it is hard for people with 50 million ce, but OOO is just giving others a chance.
Also, you ASKED FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. NOW YOU ARE COMPLAINING. Seerusly.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 20:05
#14
Imagen de Njthug
Njthug
Lmao

Groundbreaker will never be given out in the game over featured auction <---- That is a fact.

@Rommil --- aren't you jelly of my groundbreaker <69.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 20:32
#15
Imagen de Dukeplatypus
Dukeplatypus
If they do it reasonably, I

If they do it reasonably, I don't mind. Love Aura, Tails Tails, Metal Sonic, and PAX Bombheads are one thing, old Rose Regalia is a whole other thing.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 20:45
#16
Imagen de Tersakaff
Tersakaff

"Also you have no idea what the community wants or likes, don't speak on their behalf."

It's up to the community to confirm or infirm what I've stated. The only reason I've said that, was from seeing past reactions. It may be worded wrongly, but let's keep on topic, yes?

"Let more people have it -and keep promo items as bonus not 'investment' . "

It is obvious you are not a merchant, buying promo items cheap and reselling is a major source of profit.

"It is unfair to people who haven't been around for the promos."

Actually, they could buy the items from players that saved up. Oldest promo ever was 1st gen Regalia and we still get some around. But some items, will just end up staying unique and while it may be frustrating that you were not there when they were given out (Grounbreaker let's say) you have to deal with it.

"you ASKED FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT. NOW YOU ARE COMPLAINING."

Excuse me, different =/= promo. Different = items that are rare but never featured.

It's obvious most of the persons here have not been in either of these situations:
A. You bought a, let's say, Sprinkle Aura to resell. BAM featured auction, one of your potential clients is lost, value is lowered. You have to wait more.
B. You bought a Sprinkle Aura right before a FA for way more than it ended for. BAM quit. True story.
C. You wanted a Sprinkle Aura but missed the FA. Now nobody is willing to sell theirs until price goes up. BAM you both have to wait.

Oh, and about it being evil...
Tell me more about how businessmen are evil for buying cheap and reselling expensive.

Also, this is not a SUGGESTION. It is a DISCUSSION.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 21:52
#17
Imagen de Venomousbiohazard
Venomousbiohazard
...

You sound like me when I raged about an officer kicking me outta a guild. In other terms, you sound like a highly opinionated person. As for the sprinkle aura, well, too bad. Now there are two sprinkle auras that are unbound in the game, but both are probably already put on. So, no harm done. In theory, the sprinkle is STILL the only existing aura. If they give 1st gen regalia, now THAT would be bad. I would be unhappy if extremely old promos come to life again. These are recent, it isnt bad. But as I said before, they are trying to give other players a chance. And I have always thought hoarding limited time only accessories is a little unfair. Although I might as well talk to a wall. I can tell that you are highly opinionated about this, and nothing will ever change your mind.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 22:07
#18
Imagen de Xairathan
Xairathan
+1

I agree with the whole argument for the merchanting community. As with Tersakoffs story about the Sprinkle, that is pretty justifiable and 100% true. As the unfortunate person who got face-slammed by the Sprinkle, I can say that having the Sprinkle Aura on the Auction House was pretty much a death sentence for that market. My guildmates and some friends can recall me panicking that afternoon, debating whether I should sell my Sprinkle off for under the current market value, or hold off until the Sprinkle had passed. Not only does this affect me, but I am sure that there are other players in the Spanish, French, and German servers who are bound to have unbound Sprinkle Auras- I hope I'm not the only one.

As for the rest of the promo items, here's my take on it.

Sonic Set- There are still hundreds of unbound pieces out there. Why put in another pair to compete with those already in the market, other than to eliminate the middleman? (Other merchants)

Arcane Halo- ARE YOU KIDDING ME. These things just went out! They are not that rare! You could probably find one by asking around in under an hour. Why put it on the Featured Auctions, when there are still plenty of merchants out there that are now struggling harder than ever to scrape a profit by?

This is literally my guild's reaction when we saw the featured auctions. "What the HELL is going on now?!" as I like to put it, "OOO is throwing everything sacred out the door", and one of our darkfang-shield bearers in the guild has professed a fear that OOO will soon violate THAT rarity.

tl;dr- OOO has the right to put up anything they want on the Auction House. However, what their right is, and how far it overshadows player's efforts, are two different things. OOO claims to put player's interests first. What they are doing now, is the opposite of that.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 22:20
#19
Imagen de Rommil
Rommil
its all good.

i don't want GB armor unless i can get a steam mask with it XD

But really, there are enough items on the game that I consider it too soon and bad form to redo promos, limited editions items, and 1 time only items into the featured auctions.

But i will say its nice that they are finally putting up some of the rare-accessories that have been so lacking over the months (but of course, they just gave out a billion of 90% of the limited items that they have been recycling). Main point is, there are soo many rare and wonderful accessories that the COMMUNITY AT LARGE would love to see more of in the game, that it seems to soon to be re-releasing promo items that are not very old.

Either way, i'm happy for the new goods in Featured Auction house. The re-released stuff is a little irksome but not a big deal, those items will still appreciate in value as time goes on. As these items are never going to be more common then they were at the time of release.

As a whole, its fairly obvious. The community at large wants promo items released in featured auctions. I'll bet they'd prefer 1st gen rose regalia re-released there as well. It becomes a matter of haves-vs-havenots. The haves will obviously favor rarity. The have nots will obviously not favor rarity. The have nots will always greatly outnumber the haves. Thus the majority of the players on the game will always favor a chance to hopefully gain an item for cheaper (altho thats a bit of a fallacy. Nearly anytime there is an item in the featured Auctions, if its available in game by collectors, it will be cheaper from a "merchant" as featured auctions always seem to be the highest selling items on the game.) Or at the very least, they will favor any opportunity that allows them to easily attempt to acquire an item.

Its neither right nor wrong on either side of the coin. Just like any employer would like to add more responsibility onto the employee (within reason) for the same salary, any employee would prefer more (much more) money for doing the exact same job. Both have a fundamentally vested interest in their own position, and neither is wrong. Its just the natural laws of human interaction. Usually a happy medium, a just balance, is reached.

The problem with situations in fictional worlds, such as SK, is that the balance isn't reached, its dictated. In the end tho, its still spiral knights, and none of it is important to anything bearing real world consequences. Nobody's life is greatly harmed by the release of any item in Featured actions--tho there SK experience might be greatly affected. And nobody's life is greatly harmed by any item not being introduced into the game via whatever means. The long and short of it is: its just a game; to be consumed for fun; and has no bearing on our real lives.

tl;dr
Its a game. Play it. Have fun. Champion your own cause, but be empathetic towards your fellow knights.

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 22:22
#20
Imagen de Lightyourfire
Lightyourfire
Totally agree with you

That was stated very well, Xair

And if OOO starts to put up dragon wings, you have no idea to what depth my rage will go

Mar, 08/07/2012 - 23:03
#21
Imagen de Njthug
Njthug
=0

It's obvious most of the persons here have not been in either of these situations:
A. You bought a, let's say, Sprinkle Aura to resell. BAM featured auction, one of your potential clients is lost, value is lowered. You have to wait more.

^

Just a merchant point-of-view:

You buy an item not knowing its value if you will be able to break-even or make any sort of profit. You might hope to make 200%+ profit, but end of the day its not set in stone. Featured Auction brings up a new Sprinkle Aura (Lets say it goes for 4mil), well now as a seller you can sell this item for 4mil Crowns easily.

B. You bought a Sprinkle Aura right before a FA for way more than it ended for. BAM quit. True story.

^
Well it sucks that you over-paid for an item, but end of the day you clicked that trade button. Only true reason to be upset is if Three Rings put up 100 Sprinkle Auras.

Btw: Sprinkle Aura isn't worth more than 35k Ce (I said that well-before the featured auctions). My pricing is based on desire for an item.

C. You wanted a Sprinkle Aura but missed the FA. Now nobody is willing to sell theirs until price goes up. BAM you both have to wait.

^

If you wanted a sprinkle aura and you missed the FA and Promo Event <---- you just have bad timing, or you can buy or create 80k Ce and try to buy one for that much I am sure you will find a seller (If anyone has an unbound sprinkle aura).

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 00:05
#22
Imagen de Tersakaff
Tersakaff

"And I have always thought hoarding limited time only accessories is a little unfair. "

You definitely don't know much about merching. :(
Also sorry for trying to make a point and defending it haha?

"And if OOO starts to put up dragon wings, you have no idea to what depth my rage will go"

So, so much rage.

"Featured Auction brings up a new Sprinkle Aura (Lets say it goes for 4mil), well now as a seller you can sell this item for 4mil Crowns easily. "

But as I said, that's one client lost. And the item could've gone for more.

"Well it sucks that you over-paid for an item, but end of the day you clicked that trade button. Only true reason to be upset is if Three Rings put up 100 Sprinkle Auras. "

That wasn't me, and it wasn't overpaying. It's just that the dude got it for the current fair price at that moment then the FA messed it up.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 03:24
#23
Imagen de Enclavean
Enclavean
+1 FINALLY someone said

+1

FINALLY someone said something. So much for a "limited" time promotion if your putting them up on AH in a few weeks. Love Aura's have been on AH for months now too. And lets not forget Volcanic Dragon and Valk Wings were added back in the last promo making their prices drop. (Think about those who bought one just before the promo or the ones who stacked up on them!)

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 03:45
#24
Imagen de Shoebox
Shoebox
The Feature Auctions are a

The Feature Auctions are a Crown Sink.

If the items on there weren't valuable or desirable, they wouldn't be serving their purpose.

Also, OOO never said any of the promotional items were limited time only.
They've only ever said the promotions themselves were limited.

That said, the way it has been handled really cements the idea OOO is comfortable being RMT middlemen.
They sell items that made them a lot of money in the past, for a lot of money again.
Stimulate the energy exchange with the CE to CR conversions, and everyone except the merchants who are making money outside of their system benefit.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 05:57
#25
Imagen de Exerpa
Exerpa
Just insert the word

Just insert the word 'Vintage' in the name of pre-existing promo stuff.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 06:22
#26
Imagen de Gaidal
Gaidal
This isn't a discussion. It's

This isn't a discussion. It's a "I'm right and if you don't agree with me then you're wrong." If you want a true discussion then you should be open minded.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 07:10
#27
Imagen de Fehzor
Fehzor

OOO has chosen their path. They cannot and should not make some promotional items "special" while freely devaluing other items just so that they can fix the economy for a weekend.

This includes groundbreaker and all rose regalia... If they are willing to kill the value of Valkyrie wings, then why shouldn't they be willing to kill the value, sentimental or otherwise of rose regalia and ground breaker? The argument that ground breaker is "untradable" and holds "significance" to beta players falls short in the exact way that re-releasing other promotional items falls short in. If one item is re-released, then all should have the potential for such. Similarly, the original rose regalia is worth a retardedly high amount of money right now. If OOO is willing to sacrifice the value of other items, why not rose regalia?

Of course, I would absolutely love for OOO to come in and, after re-releasing ground breaker+original rose regalia, put a tag of "limited" on items or so. This tag would be an absolute promise that OOO would not re-release the item in question. It would allow them to take back their ruling, and to agree with players like Tersakoff. It would help their game in the long run, and would not come at that much of a cost. But as it is, it is impossible for them to truly say that any one item is special, and no exceptions should be made.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 07:11
#28
Imagen de Coneykrab
Coneykrab
+1

I've picked up a promo or two with the intention of selling them MUCH later, but I guess their value is gonna go up rather than down, thanks to these featured promos.

Since most of these items are going to make a return on the featured auctions, what's my motivation to use real money to buy the promo, rather than crowns to bid on the auction?

I agree with the "all is sacred or nothing is". Why should I gamble with promos and guess whether or not they'll make a return? Put up a groundbreaker set or two. :P

Before featured auctions existed, it was purchase-from-someone-who-saved-one or bust. It may "not be fair" to you because you can't afford it, but it worked before.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 07:55
#29
Imagen de Fallconn
Fallconn
FALCON PUNCH!

+1 -1, I don't really think it's that bad but then again it they did say it's limited time only...

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 08:08
#30
Imagen de Derpules
Derpules
Storm in a teacup.

Each time a featured like this goes up, there's one more of that item in the market. One. More. Item. How many Arc Halos are there out there already? Dozens at least. How many Sonics? Hundreds left, I'll bet. One more does not do much to the value of the remainder.

Now, something like a Sprinkle or 1st gen chap is another thing. But even then, I think it'll disturb the price in the medium to long run only if 1) sellers panic or 2) OOO keeps putting them up. What was the long-term effect of those 1st gen featured pieces? Zilch, apparently--they still go for stupid money. And unless another Sprinkle gets put up, I'll bet the same will be true there.

From the (hypothetical) PoV of a buyer who wants the item, the featured value helps me only if the sellers allow it to. It doesn't matter what the Sprinkle went for on the AH if you're the only one who has one for sale now. Waiting for another to hit featured is just not feasible.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 08:17
#31
Imagen de Headbash
Headbash
Tersakaff dismissing people's

Tersakaff dismissing people's views as "not being merchants" is totally missing the point and rude. I'm not gonna let you hide behind this. I do trade in accessories I just wouldn't mind if they are more widely available as I feel it's better for the game and OOO's vision. You're very clearly not open to the other side of the debate when you dismiss it as ignorance.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 08:41
#32
Imagen de Tiffanie
Tiffanie
-1

Accessories in a virtual world will always be accessories in a virtual world. OOO has the right to re-release items that remain their intellectual property. The community cannot alter this. This is a "debate" that shouldn't be happening.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 08:51
#33
Imagen de Asukalan
Asukalan
You want accesories? You

You want accesories? You should have bought them when they were cheap.
You want them now? Your problem pay the price. You should have think before.
Oh you are so jealous that smart people can make money on them and now you just want them to be ruined and you pwease OOO to release those things again? Way to go.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 09:56
#34
Imagen de Yukarie
Yukarie
I'm just waiting for them to

I'm just waiting for them to release non-promo rare accessories, kinda like what they did with scarves.

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 10:07
#35
Imagen de Trying
Trying

Why does nobody care for the poor Spiral Bombhead?!

Mié, 08/08/2012 - 10:12
#36
Halifix
-1

I don't care about the prices of items that much. They constantly change, and I try my best to make money off it, but in the end we have no guarantee that an item's value will continue its current trend. What I care about is OOO keeping its word. If an item is declared to be limited edition, never to appear elsewhere, it better be limited.

As for all of Tersakoff's arguments...

A. You bought a, let's say, Sprinkle Aura to resell. BAM featured auction, one of your potential clients is lost, value is lowered. You have to wait more.
The buyer wins, OOO wins by taking crowns out, you lose. That's all.
B. You bought a Sprinkle Aura right before a FA for way more than it ended for. BAM quit. True story.
You lose a bit due to unseen forces, the seller gains a bit. If you quit, other sellers benefit from decreased competition.
C. You wanted a Sprinkle Aura but missed the FA. Now nobody is willing to sell theirs until price goes up. BAM you both have to wait.
No, you don't have to wait. If no one is selling for a certain price, THAT'S NOT THE MARKET VALUE. You can just pay the old price (or near it) if you figure you want it more than whatever you're trading away.

(Opinion: I would prefer that this game simply give you lots of customization options for relatively simple prices. I don't like paying more for an item just because it was released long ago, but that's the model they chose. It's also the model that lets you MERCHANT IN THE FIRST PLACE, in terms of rarity increasing value. However, I do like the existence of merchants, for the times when they have agreeable offers, and like that this system keeps them here. From what I can tell, limited items increase in value until they hit a certain price, probably in the millions of crowns, where it then stays stable. This seems fine to me. Merchants can simply sell off the items that are no longer accruing value, and buy the new promo items.)

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