i been playing SK since april 2011, so played at a time when CE were significantly lower. CE prices have been raising steadily overtime. as many new knights have commented, it can be difficult to craft higher level items with the current CE prices. do the ppl here feel that SK will gradually move from a F2P towards a P2P platform ? granted new knights can still play without using real money, but the grinding the new knights need to do will be more tedious than the grinding in 2011. would u ppl agree ? is this the usual trend for MMORPG (cos SK is my first MMORPG)?
is SK moving towards P2P ?
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 01:54
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 01:57
#2
No
No. Puzzle Pirates started as a subscription game and it mostly went F2P before F2P really became popular (outside of Korea). SK was built from the ground up based on F2P, it likely isn't easy to change at this point without some huge changes.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 02:00
#3
IMO it isn't even a remotely
IMO it isn't even a remotely possible situation, P2P games are dying, even WoW tanked recently (it lost 1.1m subscribers), SWTOR already announced it's transition to F2P, etc.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 02:00
#4
It already is both!
SK is already P2P for some people. It remains F2P at the same time. I don't see it moving exclusively to P2P because they are obviously doing well enough with the current model. It isn't impossible to remain F2P at T3. It all depends on how much time you spend playing and how much patience you have. OOO makes most of their money off of impulsiveness and impatience. That suuuper expensive revive for example, Promo packages is another. If you can't stomach waiting for tomorrow then you'll hand over the cash. It's like buying time. It all depends on how you personally balance your priorities of time, money, and patience. That is my 2 cents. ^^
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 02:05
#5
I'm a paying player
And I don't mind. I like this game, there are certainly some changes I would impose if I were dev, but I digress. Like Virtuewis, It's now a mixture of the two thanks to the new Expansion mission.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 05:23
#6
throws the bomb
DLC = only paid content
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 05:54
#7
SK *IS* P2P
All Spiral Knights Fun Money, AKA Crystal Energy represents real money that someone injected into the system.
Imagine a coin-operated arcade game that has a feature where if player 1 also pays for player 2, player 1 gets some additional bonus. The game operator still gets the income of 2 players, potentially more than that if the bonus encourages more generous payments from paying players.
This is how Spiral Knights works. All players are paid for - anyone who did not put a coin in the slot should thank the person who did it for them.
This of course is also the reason why unbind costs are so high and why a fixed ce-cr price could never happen - no unbind fee would let you reclaim your burnt fun money, a fixed price would mean fun money is injected without payment.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 05:59
#8
what
@Exerpa If it was P2P they should have announced from the start, but some players are considered F2P since we have mist energies and buyable with virtual game money for crystal energies. I know what everything up there ye tried to point were ridiculous money-eating, but we still can play for FREE.
FREE. I said free. The players can choose not to pay or to pay. It's their choice, not Three Rings's.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 06:35
#9
#freemium
#freemium
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 06:38
#10
my bad
i didnt intend to make this into a F2P VS P2P discussion / debate - nor was it my intention to start a discussion on whether SK should / should not be considered a P2P. as have previously been pointed, the majority of the content can still be accessed free, so most ppl would still consider SK F2P.
actually the point of my initial question was - as the CE continue to rise, more knights will experience difficulties when it comes to crafting higher grade items (eg it used to be 4k for 100 CE; now its 8K - so it just feels like more grinding needs to be done). Also, some have pointed out that HOH have removed another source of income. so it does feel like - even as it is harder to generate crowns, its also taking more crowns to earn the same amount of CE.
if this continues, becos of market forces (eg reaching 10 k for 100 CE), wouldnt it be against great odds before a new knight can obtain his / her first 5* item ? i guess 000 have been introducing measures to ensure new knights do not feel that 5* items are placed out of their reach ....
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 06:43
#11
NA
NA
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 06:58
#12
Only reason CE prices are so
Only reason CE prices are so high is because players are just endlessly grinding Firestorm Citadel (IE: King of Ashes) for mass profit: You're able to get 100CE in a single full run using only 50 Energy.
As long as this mission remains, CE prices will remain at 8k or go even higher. However, it's pretty clear that OOO doesn't plan on removing it because more people are buying CE to resell for 8k/100.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 07:10
#13
The problem with Pay to Play
The problem with Pay to Play models is that people enter into them knowing they will only have to spend a set amount per month, so they very rarely stray from that $10/$15 a month that most MMO subscriptions cost. So in order to make their money they really need to get as many people signed up for as long as possible. Their product is usually of a higher quality than free to play games and they tend to have a number of long term goals for the player to achieve. But if the game dips in popularity so does the game's chances of surviving the next financial review.
Free to Play models offer all of the same things that most Pay to Play MMOs do, but they offer them all on a 'pay as you go' style. So you don't need to buy everything at once, but you can and are actively encouraged to. Most microtranscation models boil down to something like 'The game is free but you can pay as you much you think it's worth for it' rather than 'We do this to convenience when you decide to pay for the game rather than making you pay for a month of game time you probably won't end up using most of'.
I think it's a big mistake to only try to appeal to the core base of paying customers by offering them all of the advantages.
Especially when what you're selling to people isn't a pay as you go product as it seems (Crystal Energy) but rather just one half of a Universal Currency.
It's extremely easy to spend thousands of CE and having nothing to show for it, which is both a merit to the people who designed the system (managing to waste people's money twice so they have to buy more CE) and a gigantic flaw, because people can feel punished for supporting the game and quit altogether.
While this system obviously appears to be working for them, I don't think the model itself is really as refined as it should be.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:59
#14
I wonder how long this game
I wonder how long this game would last if no one pumped $$$ into it.. so we can all be "free to play".
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:28
#15
F2P vs P2P
We can all be "free to play" if we choose. That is the point. The people that P2P, are doing it by choice. There is a conscious choice that goes into buying CE with real money. It is possible to wait for mist to recharge. The only way it isn't possible to wait is if you cannot control your impulses.
For the OP, CE price has always fluctuated over time. The truth is, if you were even able to make 1 cr from your mist, you'd be able to craft 5* items eventually. I know that is a ridiculous example, but it is true. As long as CE is available for purchase with cr, the game is not heading towards P2P. Individuals may be headed for P2P in the future, but not the entire game. When I started, I went F2P for a long time. I even made my first couple 5* items that way (and yes, CE prices were > 8k cr off an on back then). By using the AH and spending my cr wisely, I was able to buy enough CE to make my 5* shiny things without spending real money. Was it quick? Absolutely not. Was it fun? Of course it was fun, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. Actually spending the time stuck in my 3 and 4* gear was good for me. I learned alot about dodging, shielding, damage types and teamwork so that I was ready for the next tier. It's all about patience, as I sated before.
TL;DR: F2P vs P2P is about how you prioritize your time, money and patience.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:28
#16
Forever Alone
It would last forever. Money just makes updates thats all. and make some people happy for selling nothing real for real money :3
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:31
#17
So servers are free, and GMs work on good will?
We need a balance between both worlds.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:36
#18
Some of these replies are
Some of these replies are silly. People can choose to be free to play, but the game will not live if everyone was free to play. Nor would a single person get gear above 2 star if everyone was free to play... because no one would be pumping that precious CE you guys buy from the market into the game. Hating on P2P players is an extremely silly concept.
I suppose in short, F2P players need P2P players just to progress in this game.
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 15:33
#19
Wodanct
I don't know what you want people to say. Yes, the game requires people to pay for CE for the game to stay afloat. Is there a real concern that the money isn't being spent? Are you implying that the P2P'ers are only buying CE to keep the game going? If that's the case, you are wrong. People buy CE b/c they want it, not because they are the martyrs for the F2P'ers.
It is common knowledge that F2P players need P2P players to "progress" in this game (at least gearwise). I don't see how the replies in this thread are silly. No one is asking for everyone to quit buying CE. There is no hating on P2P players anywhere in this thread. I have done it both ways (P2P/F2P).
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 15:53
#20
is this...
is this the only MMO game with a liberal economy? Economy run by players instead of a fixed price?
am i the only one who finds this weird? Why am i asking all these questions? Is Here really There without the T????
Sun, 08/12/2012 - 05:03
#21
nope it's just easier to make
nope it's just easier to make crown compared to then...
Mon, 08/13/2012 - 12:05
#22
No, but the amount of CE in the market is lowering, hence the high prices. You can progress without buying CE, but slowly. So no, SK will never be P2P.
F2P players take sometime to finish upgrading their stuffs. And I know that it'll be very hard to farm crowns for the current situation on the market prices.
As long a single cent is not needed to spend on knight creation, Spiral Knights is not considered P2P.