Grinding is only painful if you obligate yourself to it. What if you just WAIT? Seriously, I haven't crafted anything significant since the dragon wings promo, I think. Learn to be patient, SK's progression isn't fast. If you want a game to quickly feed you meaningless upgrades, play a flash game. There are millions on the internet.
Fixing the grinding problem...
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:29
#52
--
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:47
#53
...
ok u got me i only have 3748ce...but i was grinding jk so i culd bid for acssorys+i whant anther antigun +i need all the ce for upgrading weapons+i need heat for that...so it was a heat/money run...
@addsound
i hate flashgames...
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:51
#54
-_-
You could sell your CE.
Again, I'm not believing.
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:53
#55
Your bad poker face is bad
Your words do not satisfy.
You still need to prove you have a Groundbreaker set which you claimed to have.
Set up a meeting time and place or all of your claims are assumed to be false.
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:55
#56
Wait,
Can you link me that post?
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:02
#57
If I can find it
I remember it was a bragging contest Killerot provoked.
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:28
#58
general response
It's a little stacked against F2P players, but that's to be expected as the game is designed to be best played with the purchase of a pack. The F2P option is really more of a privilege than anything else. I'd also wager the majority of F2P players don't contribute much to the overall success of SK. Every dollar spent is a tangible contribution to the success of SK, however small. F2P players provide "community" and sink time into the game, but their effects are mostly collective, and so long as a sufficient number remain (only OOO has access to this data, so we can't really judge the current status), I doubt anything will be done.
If you view grinding as a chore, then it is time to move on to a different game. No one is entitled to anything- OOO would do well to keep an ear to the ground, but they are not obligated to do anything for you. Personally, I find grinding a little dull, but never boring; sometimes I'll mix it up and carry a random party, or do some T1 runs to meet and greet newbies and even distribute equipment if they are polite. If I didn't think SK were fun, I wouldn't play it.
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:40
#59
Processing Thoughts of You Always
Luguiru is correct.
Killerot first claimed to have been on the website for two years, which would have put him firmly in the beta testing. When I questioned him for proof of this, evidence of having Groundbreaker gear, he then went on to say that he had the kit but had no way of proving it. I suggested taking a screenshot and posting it on some kind of image hosting site, to which he replied that he was 'not a geek sorry lol' and that he had no idea of how to take a screenshot. I explained the process to him in clear, concise detail; I'm pretty sure they teach computer sav in the first year of secondary schools now, but whatever.
I am still awaiting a reply from that one.
@OP: The grinding in this game is excessive, yes. Lowering the prices somewhat will probably have an effect of keeping players around for longer.
Beyond that I am running out of brain to form a cohesive argument, so good night.
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 14:58
#60
You two are the cancer killing the game.
@Addisond
Damn right the progression is slow. Any slower and it would be the speed of a standing brick. Tell me something lad, have you even readed how much time and effort it takes to get to tier 3 without resorting to pay real money? A simple answer: Too bloody long and too much effort. And this suggestion is to try to cut that in hal at least. And people are only obligated because they have NO CHOICE to.
@Mohandar
Yes, p2pers have the benefit to not WORK as much as the f2p, but the difference in the WORKING between both is simply unfair, or with a better term, ABYSMAL. And while 3rongs doesn't have to do anything for the players, they should listen to them because it's the costumer, or better yet, the community that is always right. Small note: dull and boring are synonyms. And one more thing: being the game fun is NOT an excuse for making the access to tier 3 an enormous pain in the ass.
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 12:00
#61
This game didn't constructed
This game didn't constructed to run it cycled & cycled each day to be strucked dumb. Better try to buy some 2* & chained to it 3* recipes & craft items entering to game in same time, to craft items from mist energy schemed - one day two 2* items, two days per one 3* item, then sell it on AH (cost around 20K cr). Necessary resources costs 10K cr, then 10K cr per day income & in weekend may to play.
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 12:24
#62
@Deltikon
Exhibit A:
If I didn't think SK were fun, I wouldn't play it.
If you don't like it, don't play. It is OOO's problem if you quit, but if you're still here despite the complaining, they are clearly doing something right, and you are somehow still enjoying the game. That, or we are all masochists (certainly a possibility). Something tangential to consider, but interesting nonetheless: One business found that paying customers were more polite than non-paying ones.
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 12:52
#63
I still do enjoy the game, thank you very much.
And that's why I'm making these suggestions so 3rings/sega can do something about it, so other people can enjoy it too. Seriously, how many people do you think there are on tier 2 and unhappy with the huge amount of effort it takes to get past to the next tier? People simply get fed up with it and get all "cranky", as you say, and simply leave. Does it look good for a MMO that besides limiting how much time per day a player can play, but also shoves him on the face with grinding?
And people pay for stuff because they are happy with it, and not the other way around.
@Atmarozag
It doesn't work so well if people don't have elevator passes, you know? People want to play the game afterall...
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:41
#64
Another simple solution...
...is to just take the payout of KoA and put it back on par with your usual Stratum 6. Of course, lowering the crafting costs, I wouldn't be against.
And keep in mind, the one who's saying he wouldn't be against it is someone who's crafted a Mad Bomber Mask, Volcanic Demo Suit, Perfect Mask of Seerus, full Sunset, multiple 4* and lower guns, and multiple 5* and lower bombs, as well as an Avenger and a few other swords, plus an Aegis and a standard Bomb Focus Module.
Have I spent a lot of CE? Yes. Did I have to grind RJP the whole way? No, I had an elevator pass for practically everything since my first pass was bought. If I only cared about myself, I would be against this. But I am not against this, I am for it. Ridiculous grinds drive people away.
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:45
#65
"You are so retarded I won't even bother answering to you."
'Answering you'*
And I fail to see what it is that makes me so 'retarded'. I stated a fact, whether you believe me or not. Play any game, and you'll find you'd get bored of it sooner the faster you reach the end.
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 17:01
#66
Debates are fine but please
Suggestions are fine but please do not resort to calling each other names or otherwise insulting other players. Thank you.
Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:36
#67
Voss, that actually seems
Voss, that actually seems fair, except insofar as I think it's weird that you would bother complaining about the preferences of other players ("There must not be debate concerning tastes"). It's not going to get you anywhere in most cases, especially when you're acknowledging that "many of the player base" feel that way (if it goes so far as most or nearly all, then there's really not much reason for OOO to cater to you over the many others who feel differently).
That being said, since this is the first post you've made in this topic, AFAICT, could you either state whether you agree with Deltikon or have your own views as to what good ways to change things would be done (sorry if you've made other topics in the past).
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:43
#68
@psychorazor
The difference is that this game has REPLAY VALUE, which is a thing many games miss these days. If you reach endgame, sooner or later, you'll still want to play the game for being so fun. So why even bother trying to hold us back?
@Atlanta
Sorry, I'll keep the sharp tongue less sharp.
@Vossida
^this. I might sound butthurt, but it's just like he said.
@Holythorsdaybot
The problem is that the current community is accepting this abusive grinding too well, and just looking down and focusing on the CE prices to be honest, and I was trying to open their eyes to see that there's easier and better ways to dwindle the grinding than just trying to cheapen the CE.
EDIT: Ironically, people care more about having chestplates than the real problems of the game.
And I believe he agrees with me. Honestly many people who would agree with me probably just stopped playing the game...
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 04:07
#69
N00bs these days...
back when I played It wasnt just doing the missions over and over again. We went in the Arcade and always did different levels. Doing clockworks actually gives you MORE money coz 3 levels full of enemies rather than 2 + a boss. but CE prices are way too expensive, even for me, a 5 star dude with severel sets with Max UVs.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 04:09
#70
There was grinding????
I never really cared too much about the CE prices for crafting. The only thing that bugged me a bit was how elevators required energy. But I have to agree, CE prices are quite expensive. But then again the CE to CR trading market isn't controlled by OOO, so partially our own fault
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 04:32
#71
uh
@Vossida
"Even though the image Deltikon posted in the first page was induced by a 3 day stomach ache induced rage, I meant every word except "bless" and all it's variations."
Fixed that for ye, Eurydice style.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 05:56
#72
-
Making missions unrepeatable solves many problems like a shoestring. This will reduce the amount of grinder slaves (Eventually they will start grinding FSC in Arcade), massively lowers ce prices, makes fire and undead mats valuable, and makes players reach the game's main thing: Arcade and Clockworks. And lowering FSC payout wont solve problem, they are unstoppable due to tokens. It also makes basil get rid of cobwebs and lowers valuable recipes' and mats' unbelievable AH costs like giving 55kcr to just a Polaris recipe or giving 1kcr to just a warp dust. I know, my suggestion is like "Make world that has only 1 country", but it is just a idea.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:46
#73
It's not a bad idea
It has been said many times, but it helps make the game more even between midgame and endgame players. Still, it's better if we get more ambitious and "attack" the real cause of the problem, which is the fact of the crafting costs being too high and based too much on the CE.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 08:41
#74
As I have seen people write
As I have seen people write about this over and over, I feel the urgent need to clarify something:
We do not have any control over the market.
Yes, it is us who set the offers for CE and CR. BUT we do not have any control over the amount of CE that can be offered. The need for it, is, by OOO, made to be high. The source are players that pay money. With this CE is made the rarest good and as such automatically prone to be expensive.
If CE where farmable, than yes, by all means, it's our market. But as it is now we have almost no control over it.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:55
#75
Not quite right
Remember that it's the part of the community that sells the energy and the other that buys it too. Players make it expensive because they are willing to throw away 8,5K of cr for a pack of 100CE. My suggestion helps that the crafting costs don't be influenced as much by the market itself. Because you need that much CE in order to craft something.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:58
#76
oh wow, 4 posts at once
this really is bugged
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:58
#77
...
....
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:59
#78
...
...
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:57
#79
Woah, dat quad post.
el oh el
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:03
#80
I love how people see "admin"
I love how people see "admin" icon next to suggestion and they are like "OMGOMG ADMIN ANSWERED THEY READ DAT SUGGESTION" and when they look there, its just moderation note.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:28
#81
....
Is this a fight or just agreeing that we can do something about CE?
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:37
#82
It's not exactly the CE we're talking about
It's about the grinding on SK and how expensive crafting is. Some people just seem to call it either a "feature" or claiming that OOO will go bankrupt if the crafting costs are halved. Which I find silly for both.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:41
#83
To control a market you only
To control a market you only need a good the consumer wants and that you can limit. As long as there a players they can control the market. If you honestly think that by "just not buying CE" you could lower the prices than you obviously know nothing of how economy works and shouldn't talk about it in the first place.
Basically you are trying to solve the oil problem. That, too, is not a problem you can solve by telling everyone to "just use less" because society itself is build upon using it as a primary energy source for all kinds of things. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? The consumer has no influence on a market under such conditions as ours.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:30
#84
I'm not telling to use less energy
I'm saying to make things more affordable. People will still buy energy the same way as always, it just becomes easier to craft with it. Which is something that tier 2 misses.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:59
#85
I know how much we need to
I know how much we need to pay for crafting in total.
For 2* gear, you pay 200 - 250 energy and a few crowns to pass the 2* hall of heroes.
For 3* gear, you pay 800 - 1000 energy and alot of crowns to pass the 3* hall of heroes
For 4* gear, you pay like 1600 - 2000 energy and alot of crowns to pass the 4* hall of heroes
For 5*,gear, we have to pay like 3200 - 4000 energy and lots of crowns.
Also, we pay 20 mist or energy to get the hot edge and frost gun.
So if you add all of that up, you pay 7270 energy for crafting gear. Im not talking about the energy depot. Its the crafting costs in total.
For HoH, you need coat, helm, shield and 1 weapon that meets the *. That's what I'm talking about
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:30
#86
A few corrections, if you don't mind.
Let's assume we use full mist tanks the whole time. Just with that it cuts down the 2*'s cost on CE to full (2 days to do so). Now for the rest:
3* - 100*4=400+4 days
4* - 300*4=1200+4days
5* - 700*4=2800+4days
Total of 4400 CE
No need to add those guns since we are using just 1/5 of the mist. So the max total, and assuming that 100CE is 8,5K cr, the optimal total to go all the way to 5* is 374K and 16 days of wait for the CE to recharge!
And to make it scarier, without using those tanks, it would cost (doing some math 1st: 200+800+1600+3200=5800 for 4 pieces all the way to 5*) which multiplying for 8,5 (cost in Kcr)) it would result on a dreadful 493000cr! (almost half a million!)
And what if the costs were halved?
Lets see, considering 3* and higher crafting costs cut to half, without tanks, it would be needed 200+400+800+1600 = 3000, which is a total of 255000 cr.
Nothing surprising, really, it's expected to be about halved. But what if the mist was part of it?
2* and 3* would basically be for free, given you have enough mats, Cr and 8 days. Now, 400+1200 for just 4* and 5* = 1600. multiplying with 8,5 would result on an amazing 136000cr! It's a brutal reduction from 374Kcr to just 136Kcr, which is about the same amount of effort people these days take to pass from tier 2 to tier 3!!!
So, in short, crafting 4 pieces of equipment+assuming that 100CE = 8,5Kcr; and the total of the money spend on the progress from 0* to 5*, disregarding recipes:
Now, without mist: 493Kcr
Halved, without mist: 255Kcr
Now, with mist: 374Kcr+16 days
Halved, with mist: 136Kcr+16 days!
Not just the idea wouldn't just reduce the grinding in half, but it can very well almost literally cut it into a 1/3!!!!
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:08
#87
Youre right buddy
@El-Odio
Youre completely right...
The problem with this game is: They instead of do something to outline the situation, they prefered to use this excuse as long they can...
When developers prefer to think more about profit rather than the gamer experience, well THIS is a problem.
Still waiting for some "rewards/treasure on Missions points"...same as for the stun fix...maybe in 2020.
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 08:56
#88
Hooray for Atalanta doing her job!!
Sorry about that, I mostly look for the avatars to determine who posts what. It gets even more confusing for mewhen someone else has a Chromalisk avatar, if you could imagine
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:04
#89
@Lightyourfire
That's Atalanta. Not Eurydice.
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:26
#90
@Lightyourfire
Did you see
@Lightyourfire
Did you see the name? It said Atalanta, not Eury.
Sun, 08/26/2012 - 04:46
#91
@Benightz Did you see
@Benightz
Did you see the post above yours, made >20 mins before it? It's been pointed out.
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 02:21
#92
I'm starting to understand....................
For the past few weeks I didn't notice anything about the rising CE prices until earlier today. After doing 2 FsC runs and 1 Roarmulus Twins run, I decided to get the Blitz to make FsC easier(Or so I'm told it makes FsC easier :P). An FsC run (Starting directly from the Blackstone Bridge) earns about 7000-8000cr and consumes 50 mist (unless you use the energy to revive which could consume about 60-an infinite amount of energy). Everyday you can earn about 15000cr, this lets you buy 100ce and leaves you with a remainder of around 6400cr.
Now, lets say you are trying to craft the Blitz Needle. I believe that many people prefer to craft it rather than buying it from the AH. To craft an auto gun you need 1000cr for the recipe, 400 for the crafting, and 50ce as well. Lets say you just did a run earlier that day and you currently have 6400cr and 100ce. After crafting the autogun you are left with 5000cr and 50ce. The next day you do another run, after that you have 250ce and 3000cr (hoping that the ce prices are 8500cr per 100ce). Now, since you need to buy the recipe you probably will want to keep your ce in cr (if you don't then well, you can really get the recipe). After buying the recipe you will have around 7500cr and 150ce left. You don't have enough ce to craft so you wait another day. The next day you do some runs and craft the Needle Shot and you have 14000cr with you and 50ce left. At the rate this is going at it it wll probably take you a week to craft the Blitz BUT.................
That only applies to people who have tier 3 clearance. For new players its going to be a pain in the butt earning all of that. Everyday (according to my experience) a tier 1 player will earn about 2000-3000cr. At that pace if will take you a few weeks to get tier 2 clearance (and the items to be able to get to the end without dying a million times). Since I doubt everybody plays EVERY SINGLE day it could take up to a month to get tier 2 clearance. Now after that you earn about 6000cr every time if you manage to do jk or rt 3 times a day. But since you have missions to worry about you wait for another week. After that you earn about 14000-16000cr a day.
So so far it has taken about 2-3 months to get to tier 2. Again, I don't think anybody plays everyday so it could take at the very least 4 months. Depending on your age, you parents probably won't be too happy with you playing that much. If you are over the age of 18 you probably have more important things to do than play video games all day long. 5 months............. To get a full 5* set it could take 4-6 months. Slightly less than 2/3 of a year. Some people are able to be persistent all the way to the end but I doubt that not the case at all.
@El-Odio's is also right in quite a few ways. But it would still be nice if something GOOD happened to the ce prices
I didn't check for grammar or spelling mistakes btw, so there might be a few hicupps :P
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 11:31
#93
Xxpapaya
You hit the mark spot on. *Glares at Vanaduke.* YOU, SIR, NEED TO STOP STUFFING YOUR BONEHEADS WITH MONEY! AT THIS RATE YOU WILL *SMACK* owowowow...*collapses*
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 13:07
#94
@Xxpapaya
Getting to Tier 2 takes no grinding whatsoever anymore; you're given free 2* stuff from missions.
That is all.
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 13:08
#95
Slightly Irrelevant
This is slightly irrelevant but it's also related to buying energy so I think it fits in here. Everybody remembers the Rose Regalia Energy Bonus? Remember how it would always give you either a Tabard or Chapeau, nothing else? (Links to the event announcement http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/5957 http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/23422 ) I think they should release more energy packs like that. Currently all of the energy packs have a % chance of giving you ONE item out of like 40. *Checks the forums* Look at the items you can obtain from the Hunter Energy Pack
30% - 1 Variant Ticket
20% - 2 Variant Ticket
15% - 3 Variant Ticket
13% - Hunter Side Blade, Hunter Wings, Hunter Bomb Bundle, Hunter Crest, Hunter Parrying Blade, Hunter Plume, Hunter Ribbon, Hunter Scarf, Hunter Dapper Combo, Hunter Power Scanner, Hunter Glasses, Hunter Round Shades, Hunter Com Unit, Hunter Mecha Wings, Hunter Vertical Vents, Hunter Bolted Vee, Hunter Headband, Hunter Maid Headband, Hunter Toupee
10.5% - Hunter Fur Cap, Hunter Hood, Hunter Pith Helm, Hunter Plate Helm, Hunter Sallet, Hunter Scaled Helm, Hunter Tailed Helm, Hunter Winged Helm
10.5% - Hunter Fur Coat, Hunter Cloak, Hunter Brigandine, Hunter Plate Mail, Hunter Cuirass, Hunter Scale Mail, Hunter Culet, Hunter Raiment
1% - Green Leafy Aura
Its ridiculous in my opinion. I'm pretty sure the Rose Regalia set is still wanted by many players, that energy bonus let everyone get what they were looking for, and OOO and Sega got the money. Everyones Happy. For the Hunter event, most players went away disappointed because they didn't get the item they wanted, because of this not many people want to buy energy and wait for a better pack. We don't get what we want, OOO and Sega doesn't get too much profit, every ones not too happy.
Conclusion *Yay*: If OOO and Sega are going to release more energy bonuses they should be like the Rose Regalia one, win win situation for everyone. *Well, maybe not for the F2P players but thats another discussion.
The year of the snake is next so they should release an energy pack related to the snake. Maybe some kind of accessory? Snake tail? Snakes coming out of your back (kinda like wings)? But either way I hope its like the Rose Regalia set, and hopefully it WON'T be like the Hunter pack energy bonus
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 13:40
#96
@Zeddy
True, but what about to tier 3?
Tue, 08/28/2012 - 01:14
#97
@Zeddy
Oh, I forgot about mission rewards and you are right about that :P Then again, what if the recipes and items given to you by missions are not the ones you want? @Deltikon yeah, what about Tier 3???
Tue, 08/28/2012 - 02:46
#98
@Deltikon
I wasn't arguing for anything else. Only that getting to Tier 2 is no cinch at all anymore.
@Xxpapaya Then again, what if the recipes and items given to you by missions are not the ones you want?
What about it? You're still in Tier 2 and 2* items are practically free to craft.
Tue, 08/28/2012 - 04:32
#99
Thumbs up!
Thnx man for posting this topic on my topic.
Now I see someone I can trust and who is smart.
YES BOUT TIME!
Tue, 08/28/2012 - 05:03
#100
@Zeddy What about it? You're
@Zeddy What about it? You're still in Tier 2 and 2* items are practically free to craft
3*? 4*? 5*? Makes you wonder why they don't give you 5* recipes as a reward for Rank 9 missions :P
And lol.
If he has that kind of CE, why grind JK?
He could go to 5* and do KoA!
You fail at bluffing.
Pictures or no proof.