Spiral Knights - The evolution of SK and a bit about the community

The evolution of SK and a bit about the community

17 replies [Last post]

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:03

Riodaisho

Well, here I am, after *looks into the forum option* 1 year and 44 weeks and I have to say, the community grew louder, more random, a tad annoying with a mix of stupidity. We had a real nice community, minus Chris, once and it's all going down, but that's not the actual point. This almost happens to every community anyway.

People have to get away from their ego trip, seriously. It's all about money how only your opinion is important and the rest should just shut up (Yep, seen just some minutes ago in a thread). Most of the people I know aren't really playing anymore or I just miss them, because of my own lack of interest. Just before I posted in a thread were somebody said we don't need new content, I mean seriously? Old players are keeping away from this game because of stuff like that. Now you can ask, what do the old players have to do with me? You'll be one sooner or later and then have the same lack of interest as us.
Then there are the energy threads popping up. People complained when it was 3k, 4k, 5k and so on. That's just because a few players have most of the crowns and the crowd has nearly nothing, but it's still not like you can't make enough money with 100 ME to buy yourself enough CE. If you need a boost in the beginning because the crown payout sucks in the beginning, get yourself some for 5$.
And atleast, there are that .. let's call it other stuff you can buy with real money. Shadow Keys are freakin expensive actually, but are kinda alright if you divide the price through 4, it was still a kick in the balls for most of the players and most for the endgame players, which got through all of this without paying once (Actually not me, I paid). Next are the lockboxes... Jesus christ who thought of those? Cosmetical stuff is nice and everything but those Silver Key prices are an abdomination. Let's continue with Operation Crimson Hammer. Alright, a DLC for a MMO is new to me, I still can like it. Let's buy it with my CE I've been collectin --- Oh yeah right. It doesn't use it's own frickin ingame currency. Seriously, who thought this up? You already spent your money, to get a ingame currency and are not allowed to buy the ingame DLC with it. This threw me off on so many levels, I can't even begin with it and it would fill another page with all of my hate. And those costumes and accessoire patches instead of actual content, Nick once told us, it wouldn't stop the development of the "real" content, but I am not really believing that part.
Last and worst, making the recipes cheaper and almost doubling the crafting price. Another huge slap in the face for every player, that wanted to avoid paying. I am not even sure how many of you can remember this or played already at that time, but it made a huge change in the economy and not a good one, it's one of those things, that pissed me off more than the DLC.

Well, that's everything folks. It's a huge rant I guess, from somebody that played since the second or third Preview Event, I am not sure anymore. Now you can go hate me or whatever the flying f*** you want. It's just my view of the things currently. Oh and don't get me wrong, I am still playing and I still like this game. But there can't be change without complaining a bit. I'm not even sure if everything I wrote is in the right tense, but I am to lazy to check.

PS: Maybe I'll edit some mistakes later.
Edit1: Added something because, like always, the wrong people feel like they're meant. lol.
Edit2: Made the beginning a bit nicer.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:12

Thunderbog

...

*cricket sound appears nowhere*

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:16

Icegill

Speaking of egos...

Who the hell do you think you are insulting the community like this? Go away.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:24

Riodaisho

@Icegill I am not less dumb,

@Icegill I am not less dumb, since I talk about it. And for that who the hell, you'll have to figure it out yourself. That thread is not as much about the community as about SK itself, but nice to see people only complain about that. ;)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:39

Xylka-Mkii

Constructive Criticizm!

Ok I actually took the time to read through your whole thing...and didn't really see much from it. :/

Now hear me out, everything you adressed is pretty true. We always complain once new stuff comes out for the game, and OOO always makes some sort of mistake as they update it. Even so, people eventually get used to it and the hysteria dies down.

The only thing I didn't see in your post was any solutions to the problems being adressed. All you really did was practically take your standpoint on a lot of issues that arose through the game in the year its been out, but its not really set out.

However I think you're going a tad bit overboard calling out people for having a big ego and being greedy. Half the game, practically, requires you to use the currency exchange if you ever want any of the 5* "end-game" items or accessories. I know when I was a newbie in the Steam release, and wanted to get a set of Skolver soley because of the look of it. That was around the time vog clones were more common. The thing is, I never really cared about stats until I reached Tier 3. I've gotten my friends to play now, and am teaching them how to use a shield, and they always say they're jealous of my gear. And not once did they inspect me for it.

So really, while this points out a lot of flaws in the game, a lot of them have already been adressed or done with, and your statement towards the other forumers is a little much, even though we are all kinda bad.

That's all I got to say for now. And to all the other regular forum goers, lets TRY to keep this a little more civilized this one time. Just once? We've had enough raging, complaining and flaming here.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:54

Riodaisho

@Xylka-Mkii

Thanks, now for your arguments.
Yes it was simply my view of things how they developed through.
There are so many ideas on how to improve the problems already in the forum, I didn't see a point in repeating which people with better ideas already said. The thing with going a bit overboard is more or less there to catch the reader's attention, might be pointless thinking about it afterwards yes. I'm more or less about the big egos, which think, only their opinion is valid and ignore everything else, sometimes I may not be better, but I've already seen people... that was just too much.

Of course people are free to say their ideas how to improve the points in the first post, I didn't see this thread going anywhere anyway.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 07:39

Njthug

@Rio

@Rio:

Sadly you are right on a few of your points I remember when the Shadow Keys came out so much money wasted I try to forget about it tbh..My guild mates at least 2 of them took a break from Sk. (1 of them basically gave out all his gear and money came back and re-did it all). I still am surprised the DLC isn't tradable via the non-steam-client (I been trying to find a way to get Xerox this for ages).

Oh and content the team did a bit of content for the summer personally I would rate my own satisfaction at a mere 85%.

What I expected (to be done by August)

1. Guild Updates
2. Expansion problem to be fixed
3. New Expansion (Not so mad about this)
4. Re-adding sleep levels (best levels in the game to be honest)
5. ^its an add-on to #4 its either they could do #4 or add a few new levels to the clockworks (I know they added a bit of new rooms here n their, but new levels be rl fun).

I have to admit as a free player (Im not one of these), but these danger missions are a gift from Three Rings:

1. 180 Epeen for those who care about that # or wish to reach 45k.

2. Payout isn't bad

3. Its great new content which doesn't cost you *DLC, but meh every game does expansion I don't mind paying for this tbh would just want client trade option*

4. End of the day you received 6 new levels (tier 2 + Tier 3), new bosses and a bit of a challenge for free (Not as great as shadow lair run obviously, but not horrible).

As for Ce prices people will always complain thus the lets raise the ce price thread to just get their undies in a bunch. When I saw players complaining it hit 2k back when this game went public I always wondered how many of them would complain if it ever hit 10k. I mean to really get your money out of this game its simple just buy an ele pass and no-life. (I have guild members with these and some of them make from running just 100k+ a day)

Recipe price change ---- I think three rings kinda learned from this. Back when they re-changed the prices of recipes they didn't give back anything to the players who had those recipes the biggest loss I saw a friend take was about 1.2mil crowns or so, and back then that was a bit.....But anyways they learned via the Crystal bombs (you can rage saying it was messed up for them to do rage-crafters etc.), but the economy really never took any hit due to that from what I saw.

Anyways glad to see an old friend who doesn't keep in contact with us anymore since he mean <69. Rio feel free to pop-into mumble or just chill with Eos I know we aren't as cool as your German friends...tbh who can be cooler than KLOTZ....but I am sure we can have fun with our das beer boot <69.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 07:44

Lepreal

RIOOOO = The GERMAN. Mongarde

RIOOOO = The GERMAN. Mongarde has been long standing I salut you!

PS. I lol'ed at Chris comment :D

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 08:12

Riodaisho

Aw Nj, but you know I still

Aw Nj, but you know I still love you :o
I just hope the guild update will fix my interest, it's the only thing I am now looking forward to.

And hey Lepreal \o/ Thanks!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 08:19

Njthug

@Rio

Yes, man I love you so much as well. I do hate your guild with a passion its the only thing from stopping you to be Eos, but sadly you have to make a place for all your German Lovers =(.

Im very excited for those guild update man....=0 I been looking forward to them forever lol.......=0

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 08:33

#10

Eltia

@OP

OP raised some good points. In particular, I agree with the opinion on CE price rage threads. CE market is run by players and OOO has already said they are not going to intervene. But what if CE market sucks because of a few jerks who manipulate market? Well that's part of the game too. Is there a way around it? Sure, you buy from the banker a.k.a. OOO. In fact, I start to think this is the right way to do it because developing SK costs money. So instead of feeding your hard farmed CR to a few jerks, how about invest your money by buying the SK development team better meals?

You heard that right guys. There has always been a solution to the CE pricing crisis and most of us ignored it because we still believe in this game is F2P. "Free" is a marketing jargon because at some point, someone has to pay and support the development. The problem is that our own ego equates "pay = not proficient", because you can brag on the forum saying "you paid so much? I played this game without paying a dime". It's all about exposing our epenis online, and that ego blinds us to the fact that this CE pricing crisis is moot. There has always been a solution and it has been built into the system since Day 1.

I do disagree with the OP on this. DLC in MMO is not something new. WoW has it, GW has it, FF11 has it. (They called it expansion though. DLC doesn't need to be free. Look at Fallout 3 and New Vegas for examples.) So is it ok for SK to have P2P DLC? Sure why not. Though I would say the current payment method (real money only) is less than perfect.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 08:39

#11

Kaijuhunter

Lol Njthug is Eury, of course

Lol Njthug is Eury, of course shed expect those things, she KNOWS theyll happen.

At least theres gonna be a guild update....

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:42

#12

Aumir

@Eltia

"I do disagree with the OP on this. DLC in MMO is not something new. WoW has it, GW has it, FF11 has it. (They called it expansion though. DLC doesn't need to be free. Look at Fallout 3 and New Vegas for examples.) So is it ok for SK to have P2P DLC? Sure why not. Though I would say the current payment method (real money only) is less than perfect."

Hm, try not to compare a really long chain of quests plus gameplay changes plus features to a mission that can be ended in an hour and you just have to complete 9 times maximum to get everything out of it...

And kudos to OP, at least some people (like Eltia) try to rise their voices. It is funny I didn't read any complain about RSS in your post though. o.o

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:00

#13

Asukalan

"So is it ok for SK to have

"So is it ok for SK to have P2P DLC? Sure why not."

Sure why not, but wait? Arent the Steam players only ones who who have the ability to trade DLC for CE? The ability that even official client players dont have.

Sure, OOO announced some time ago they work on fix to make it traceable withing game client (because it seems they didnt planned it when they released OCH, oh wow what a surprise) but when we will see it? Who knows.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 03:21

#14

Shoebox

Remember when video games were about fun? Me either.

The reason they didn't make the Expansion tradeable for CE is that too much CE is already is already in circulation simply due to people being encouraged to buy more than they need for promos.
This means that if they made the Expansions tradeable for CE, they would lose out on any potential profits they could get out of other players.
There wouldn't be too much consequence to them making the Expansion CE tradeable now, but I think if they made them tradeable for OCH retroactively, they would also need to make all future Expansion CE tradeable or be accused of being money grubbing scum all over again.

I've said this a few times in-game but the reason they made the Expansion Paid DLC in the first place was because the Clockworks bosses and the like, with their new weapons and levels, really weren't causing people to make a mad dash for their wallets to get the new gear.
The crafting cost is relatively small when you're running levels repeatedly to get tokens and recipes, so they had to find a way to get what is effectively, the crafting cost of all the notable items summed up in one little up front payment. That's why the items are rewards.
This gets them their investment back on the content they created.

Of course the reason we haven't seen more Expansions recently is because, not only was there a huge backlash over them, but they get far more money from recolouring items and charging $10 for a 30% chance at them than they ever did actually making content.
The danger missions are nice, but in terms of what is being created, there may only be a few minor edits to pre-existing monsters and some new level designs. Which in terms of post-production, are pretty economical to produce. I'd expect to see more Expansion Missions in the future, though.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:26

#15

Derpules

Nice analysis, Shoebox.

Except. . . how would making OCH tradeable for CE right at the start have resulted in lost profits? Each OCH in existence still will have to have been bought by someone.

Although now that I think about it, I may have an answer to my own question.

Imagine that Player A really wants OCH and has plenty of CE, and Player B has not enough.

Scenario 1: OCH is tradeable. Player B buys OCH, sells it to Player A for CE. One OCH sold.
Scenario 2: OCH is not tradeable. Player A buys OCH. Player B buys CE to sell instead. One OCH and one CE package sold.

So I guess what you said re: lost profits does make sense. Although really, the prevalence of Steam-users now makes the point almost moot.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:24

#16

Asukalan

Shoebox, do you have also an

Shoebox, do you have also an explanation for favourising Steam players who could trade OCH with other steam players with CE?

If OOO would plan to make it COMPLETLY untradeable, not sellable with CE they would do it. Yet they made it in a way that steam players could trade it while for kongregate and official client users it remained as p2p only content.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 16:10

#17

Shoebox

Letting it be traded over

Letting it be traded over Steam with the DLC thing was a smart idea but it doesn't translate over well into the game because:
1. For it to be tradeable it would have to become an item (like a shadow key) to be transferable between players
2. It would probably be difficult to add an item like that in the game then differentiate between the one the player has used and the ones the player wishes to trade as well as give everyone who already purchased OCH the item as well. Then have it all compatible with the current way the Steam trade works so people can trade the one they buy on Steam in-game instead of just through Steam.

This leaves them with few options.
A transaction level gifting option outside of the Steam Client, which would lead to a lot of really awful scams.
Or leaving people who already own OCH in the dark with the new trading thing. Making the Steam and in-game purchases entirely separate (so if you buy it on Steam you have to trade it on Steam, if you buy it in-game you have to trade it in-game. And I feel like that would be bad for business.

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The evolution of SK and a bit about the community