So yeah, rather irritated at seeing people spam teleport adverts for crowns. If you lock the Vault to prevent players from spamming the delicious goodies there, the same should happen with clockworks.
I also ask this because when I join tier 3 parties expecting a serious group, they are at a clockworks checkpoint and have no plans to go further. So I waste my energy as well as not have a group to dive with.
Well, I don't need a group now since I do solo tier 3 runs because the distribution system is rubbish. Point of the matter is, you should not be able to sell teleports to view Basil's stock. And a friend put up a very good point that someone can be invited the floor before basil and check out the inventory, so that should be locked too.
They already fixed the broken part of it. You sued to be able to sit on floor 12 and have people join you constantly, kicking them whenever they have loaded. They each got their own random terminal floor, with recipe lists.
They fixed it. It isn't broken now.
The fact recipes can be seriously annoying to find makes this market strategy valid. I'm personally auto-ignoring anyone who tries to do it, but that's a personal issue. There's nothing wrong with being able to join on terminal floors.
And what good reason is there for people to not be able to sell teleports to Basil? It's no different than selling recipes or crafting because all things require a certain amount of effort.
Selling a teleport to Basil:
Requires:
Another person to help you (or perhaps an alternate account?). Meaning you HAVE to split the money or have an understanding with that other person.
You can't do anything else while you wait there, you must stand there all day.
You must explicitly state the items you have, and even then it may not be enough to get someone to buy from you. Profits are smaller since you'd have to offer a cheaper price than someone selling an actual recipe to get a hook.
Risk:
Some of those people you invite may even split their party to sell the same Basil.
Some people may buy MULTIPLE recipes from your basil then sell them, doubling the amount of money they made off of you.
You MUST stay online, if you leave, you lose.
Reward: Slower sustained profit, but over time.
Selling recipes:
Requires: Nothing specific except to have visited Basil
Risk: Someone may not want the recipe you bought. Could take days to sell if you pick the wrong one, and at worst cause you to have to sell for less than you bought it for.
Reward: You can generally charge up to 5k more than what you bought it for (assuming a 5 star popular recipe). You don't have to make an instant sell to get your money back. All profit goes to you and you alone.
Crafting:
Requires:
Recipes, popular ones and maybe even pre-leveled items.
Risk:
Time. Especially if you are pre-leveling items.
Also possibly being labeled as a scammer if anything goes wrong.
Should you precraft certain things, there is no guarantee of a sale.
Reward: Cashing in on the material value of your items or on someone else's.. Dungeon running isn't necessary. UV finding is increased. All profit goes to you and you alone.
In all three of the above instances, the game didn't say you could do either of these things outside of for yourself, people turned them into services.
Also, people can be invited to the floor above jelly king? Guess we'll lock those up too eh? I'm sure people will be VERY happy about that. Not only will you mess up people who like to risk taking on JK with lowered health (if they port in before the very end), you ruin people who just want to play all of depth 16 and skip JK himself (for heat/crown purposes).
If OOO thinks its bad, they will remove this in the coming patches. End of story, all done here.
ok what ever man just hit the damn solo button and go down and wait for someone to join u problem solved
I would hate to have that floor locked because people hate portal sellers. It's a legit service, and I have payed for it before after countless trips into T3 wasting energy only to get all 4* recipes. After getting sick and tired, I depended on those Basil sellers to find my recipes I wanted. Also, if I do end up getting a nice haul at basil I tell my friends, and guildies and they come get what they want form him. Whether they go solo and sell it is their deal, doesn't bother me none.
Point is, I like to help people, and giving them a port to Basil to get that recipe they were looking for for ages. Lockign it doesn't just hurt the Portal business, it would ruin it for the people who do want to help their friends or guildies.
What you suggest is using a cannon against a fly.
While the spam really annoys me, I have to agree, as long as they are legit, they deserve to make profit WHILE helping others. And locking those floors would be the worst way of solving this problem. It would hurt other players (especially guilds) the most. And it's a small CE and major crown sink, so it helps OOO. I doubt they will remove it.
I feel that if you don't put the effort in the previous (and worst crowns/heat) floors, then you shouldn't get the rewards of the terminal and after levels. Being able to 'sell' teleports in this manner is fine because you are being forced to pay for the previous missed area (20-30 energy you saved should cost you 800-1200 crowns for equality, less is better in the buyers case). However, one person selling teleports can cause too much of a one-way transaction (infinite people can be brought in, while he stands around doing nothing...making his ROI climb infinitely). In my opinion, 1 person should not have that much power, so instead of locking the terminal altogether, possibly increase exponentially the ability to invite people. For example, after 3 people are invited, he'll be charged 1 ME to invite the 4th, 10 ME for the 5th, 100 ME for the 6th, etc. etc. Eventually it'll just be too costly for him to stick around. This allows guildies/friends to be invited up to a full party without any harm, but putting pressure on campers.
I'm not opposed to players teleporting to Basil, as they are overcoming a mechanic that relies on randomness to extend gameplay. It doesn't strike me as the solution to the real problem, which is said randomness mechanic limiting player progress.
A better solution would be to incorporate something that allows players to substitute something (Money, heat, more risk by playing a harder difficulty) to get a better chance of getting missing recipes. Then players would not need to use teleporters to fill out their recipe lists, as they could feel the joy of accomplishment at earning them in a way other than rolling a die repeatedly until it happens to hit their number completely by chance.
Players unwilling to pay the price (or take the risk) can continue to rely on chance to get their recipes.
So yeah, rather irritated at seeing people spam crafting adverts for crowns. If you disable trading of equipment to prevent players from spamming the delicious servicing they provide, the same should happen with clockworks.
I also ask this because when I join tier 3 parties expecting a serious group, the group is locked and they're selling Basil ports so I can't join them. So I don't waste my energy as well as not have a group to dive with.
But really - You can't spam Basil ports no more than you can spam crafting services, offers to sell items, or anything else in trade. It's a legitimate service that helps a lot of people.
This suggestion is rubbish. Those people are offering a legitimate service, if you don't like the "spam" then leave the trade channel. 'Cause that's all you'll get from it. Ever. And if they're spamming it in zone chat, report them because they're not supposed to use zone chat for things like that. Simple as that.
I've used them at least once to get a recipe that had been eluding me for awhile. And you wouldn't believe how many people will thank you for offering the service, because they have the same issue of doing numerous runs only to come out empty-handed.
And really, the alternative (assuming you're fed up with just doing runs to try to get the recipes you're looking for, because really, the first floors of a run are not nearly as lucrative as post-Basil; and if you're only recipe-hunting it can be very disheartening that you have to waste so much time/energy/etc) is to pay someone between 5-10k more than the recipe is worth. Whereas they usually only sell ports for 2-5k.
It annoys me that someone can make a profit just by spamming. If someone wants to make a profit by selling recipes, fine - make them buy the recipe themselves, then go sell it. That would require the seller to have the capital to buy the recipe, and be knowledgeable about what recipes are good sales. This would be closer to a real market.
Alternatively, remove the random element by having all recipes available in Haven, perhaps at a premium to encourage player trading without requiring it.
"It annoys me that the trade channel exists" is what you're saying to me. EVERYONE spams on the trade channel, not just the people selling ports. If someone wants to make a profit selling recipes- guess what. They're going to have to spam it too. If someone wants to make profits off of anything, they're going to spam it in the trade channel. Period, end of story.
Saying that they'd have to be knowledgeable about what recipes are good is pretty dumb too, because in order to market your ports properly you're going to have to advertise the good recipes that everyone wants. Otherwise you're not going to get anyone who wants to port. And if we're talking about capital here, I'd say time is a pretty good capital. I sat in that terminal for over 2 hours helping people accomplish their dreams for a measly 1-2k per port. I could have done roughly 3 jelly king runs in that time and gotten 30k or more, plus 12-15 jelly gems. Pretty much all of your points are moot.
All in all, I'm tired of your baseless whining.
Making all recipes available in Haven is not at all a good idea. It wouldn't encourage player trading whatsoever. It would, in fact, do the exact opposite of that. And that is not what this game is about.
When the Auction House is implemented, I'd expect 90% of most of the spam to go away. But hell, we still have people spamming zone chat with trade talk.
Without an AH, yes, everyone has to spam. This would be at least mitigated if someone had to actually buy and sell something, because they'd have a limited inventory. Right now there's no reason not to list as many recipes as can fit in the character limit, which is precisely what people do.
You felt like you wasted that 2 hours sitting in a portal, and yet you did it anyway. Why, may I ask? My hunch is that most people selling ports do it because it is a zero risk endeavor that you can be half afk for, not because they're feeling magnanimous.
As far as all recipes being available in Haven, my point is that through the trade spam, they already are. Get rid of that by making them available from vendors, at a premium rate and instantly learned, so that you can have fun browsing the bargain bin when you get to Basil.
When the hell did I ever say I felt like I wasted my time? You need to learn to read or something dude. I even said that I was helping people accomplish their hopes and dreams. And I stayed at my keyboard for most of the time, because you know, I'm in a guild that I can talk to. And the people that pop in to get recipes talk too, because it's awkward just being quiet.
Also, you don't have to buy/sell materials. They just fricking drop most of the time! Again, your point is moot. And people spam mats waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more often than they do ports. SO STOP WHINING.
Why would you want a bargain bin that you have to waste energy to get to? Seems less like a bargain bin to me, especially if the "premiums" are only 5-10k. There'd literally be no point in trying to get through Tier3, where most of the best recipes are. Considering that the drops/heat/crowns are not nearly as impressive, for at least twice as much work.
And really, what seems better? You spending 45k on a DA recipe and then selling it for 55k, or you being able to let multiple people in to buy it themselves for a total of 48k? Which would feel better on your conscious? Knowing that you helped several people out, or that you overpriced a recipe to get more profit out of it?
The point still stands that this is a terrible idea, and I really hope the devs don't even consider it for a second.
Points above. All methods of their risks and rewards and profit to scale that.
And as far as recipe lists concerning spam...I see no difference in people listing recipes they own vs people listing recipes at Basil. The only point I will grant you is that an AH would mean the recipe sellers wouldn't really need to use trade chat anymore but Basil sellers would, but meh so what, then trade chat becomes Basil Chat. Not the biggest deal. At least you'd know if you go on trade chat, there's only one thing you're looking for and even then, it still wouldn't be half as profitable since people could then just check the AH. Honestly, if an AH comes, I already pretty much decided I'd "/leave 2" indefinitely.
Also, even through trade chat, all recipes are not available, on and off for 6 hours on Friday, I was looking to buy a Shivermist Buster recipe. No one had it. (One person did but 60k for a 45k recipe...no way man). To be honest, even today I'd still be looking for this recipe I bet, it just so happened a friend remembered I was looking for one and he was at Basil when I logged on today. So I got to come to his Basil and buy my recipe. Would've been "free" but I gave him and his friend (the real worker) a 1.5k tip each for the service. But yeah, I got this because of a FRIEND not even a service. Locking basil messes up friends and guilds.
And all recipes will not be available in haven. They want you to explore the game. You want some recipes? That's what Kozma is for. Having everything in haven basically allows you to instant win the game if you have enough crowns (from selling CE more than likely). Even if you sit in Haven waiting 6 hours for that one recipe, SOMEONE still had to go out and explore. And also instant learning? You'll kill not only Basil but recipe sellers period. You may force crafting services to be relied on more but that's always a risky business.
But whatever, I'm done here, x3ntaro won the thread long ago. "If OOO thinks its bad, they will remove this in the coming patches. End of story, all done here." And tysta's post alludes to the fact they already changed something related to how Basil works awhile back anyway so I doubt they'll change it again. I may visit this thread again, but I'm done writing here.
Sure is buttfrustrated in here. Like so many other people have said, it's a legitimate service, and a helpful one at that. Sure, the spam can get annoying, but it seems like everyone against it conveniently overlooks the much more prevalent spam, the spam that is all about selling mats or equipment (WTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vog Cub Coat, !). I'd say that I see less Basil spam and more of the aforementioned variety.
Side-note: Something I also noticed here --> "Stop making money easier than me!"
Pointless thread is pointless
/fail
/thread
Good points Neigma.
You didn't waste your energy, you spent 10 energy to skip four of the more worthless depths of a tier (as you should know the latter half of a tier offers much MUCH more in terms of heat and crowns than the first half).
As far as not having a group to work with, invite some friends, that's not hard. When you party with random people, you accept that they will do random things without your consent. And one of those random things is not continuing on because they don't want to, whereas you do.