Im just wondering if their are any swords that have a mix of pierce and elemental because my plan is to go with the Umbra Driver and a sword that will counter the guns weakness of fiends and undead.
Any suggestion would be nice
IGN Liquid-Engine
Elemental + Pierce dmg
Thu, 08/30/2012 - 20:27
Thu, 08/30/2012 - 21:10
#2
Ionized Salt was split normal-pierce.
On the contrary, duke of platypusesusesusesauces, having two specialized damage types is overpowered; if one is resisted (pierce on a Lumber) but the other is more effective (element on a Lumber), they cancel out the loss and improvement of damage to deal neutral damage. Normally resisted damage only does about 20% its neutral damage while more effective deals around 140% neutral damage.
Thu, 08/30/2012 - 22:02
#3
@Linguinininini
Whatever, I never cared for ISB.
Also super effective damage seems to do a set amount of extra damage, decided by tier and the strength of the weapon, compared to a resisted attack's ~20% of neutral damage. It ended up being that if you hit with an AP, you'd do a fair amount below or slightly below average damage (my memory isn't that precise and the wiki doesn't seem to want to back me up) to constructs and beasts, and be left with a weapon that didn't do as much damage as or was effective on fiends and undead than Callahan or any other elemental gun respectively. In fact, many people crafted it just for Vanaduke, who was effectively the only mob who took the full force of AP's typing. Compare this to now, where many more people craft AP because of its more traditional typing and better realized potential damage. Testing on drones showed that AP actually does slightly less damage now, after the patch, on neutral mobs, but there's no question that AP became more useful and powerful now that it's been unhampered by the removal of its pierce damage.
Fri, 08/31/2012 - 05:26
#4
doesn't make sense
Luguiru, I think that you're confused about how vulnerabilities and resistances work. It's the other way around. The vulnerability bonus is small (e.g. on swords at depth 28 you get 75 extra points of damage), while the resistance penalty is huge (e.g. on swords at depth 28 you lose 84% of your damage). So using a split elemental/piercing sword on a construct or beast would result in less damage than a comparable normal weapon.
As Duke said, this is why the split-damage weapons were not popular. They are hard to fit into a loadout with other weapons, such that all monster families are covered.
Fri, 08/31/2012 - 05:59
#5
Processing Thoughts of You Always
Nah, you've gotten mixed up Bopp :B
Luguiru said that a damage type resisted deals only 20% of its neutral damage.
An effective weapon does 140% (although whether or not this figure is correct, I couldn't say).
It roughly matches up with what you were trying to say.
But yeah, split-specialised damage weapons aren't all that useful given the game's current mechanics.
You would probably be best off with a toothpick of some kind, since it will do neutral damage to undead as well as being fast, with wide swipes and lots of interrupting power, making it easy to hit fiends. In contrast, there aren't any fast elemental-type swords, and most of them have a much smaller hitbox on their normal charge (barring the Rocket Hammer, which is only available to P2Pers).
Fri, 08/31/2012 - 07:19
#6
Old argent peacemaker was bad, but old RSS were cool. Split damage can work, depending the conditions.
Fri, 08/31/2012 - 16:07
#7
Do I understand this
Do I understand this right?
If I deal 200 split damage, say 100 pierce and 100 elemental vs. a Construct, I do:
20 damage from Pierce
140 damage from Elemental
160 damage total (80% of neutral)
Or do you not treat the two damage types as components, and simply combine the bonuses?
In that case:
0.2 * 1.4 * 200 = 56 damage total (~26% neutral damage)
Either way seems bad for split damage.
Fri, 08/31/2012 - 18:49
#8
Aureate
Aureate, I can understand what you're saying from what he posted, except for his statement that "having two specialized damage types is overpowered".
Haven, you have it basically right, but the numbers are more like 16 for piercing, and 125 for elemental, so 141 overall. But even this is made up, because the elemental bonus should be 75 points. You see, this thought experiment doesn't quite work, because we have no mixed piercing+elemental swords to compare it to.
Sat, 09/01/2012 - 01:01
#9
Ah, so 20% and 140% are
Ah, so 20% and 140% are approximations. At any rate, split damage does not seem to "cancel the loss" to deal neutral damage and is disadvantageous.
Argent Peacemaker, Radiant Sun Shards, and Ionized Salt Bomb all used to do split elemental/pierce damage, but they've all been changed now. AP because the split damage was limiting its potential, ISB because its slime damage bonus was contradicting its damage type, and RSS is a sensitive topic. Sadly, there were never any swords of the type, nor will there probably ever be because split damage has the habit of making a weapon really mediocre on almost anything.