Sense of exploration?
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 16:09
The game is meant to take place on some unique, ever changing and unknown world.
Does it feel like you're exploring some unique, ever changing and unknown world?
Or does it feel like you're constantly doing the same thing over and over in a different coloured hallway?
Or in the case of Clockwork Tunnels, the same coloured hallway with different coloured monsters?
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 17:26
#2
It might end up being Arena
It might end up being Arena after arena after ....
or they could add the deconstruction zone in!
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 17:30
#3
When I first started playing
When I first started playing - yes, yes I did. I hadn't (and still haven't) seen all of the different areas that the game has to offer.
For what its worth, I think they have done very well so far with this. There is only so much you can do right now with randomly generated levels like the Clockwork tunnel.
As with all things, they won't stay new. And I won't mince words here, you are doing the same thing over and over, in the same places, over and over. Is that a bad thing? Yes and no, because I sure am hell having alot of fun doing that same thing over and over. Though I'd never be opposed to new things and areas.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 18:00
#4
When it ends up just having
When it ends up just having only 1 gate going to the core, it feels like I'm doing the same thing over and over.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 18:46
#5
Yep
The game currently lacks diversity.
More stages, enemies, and random blocks for the random levels need to be included.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 19:16
#6
More stages, enemies, and
More stages, enemies, and random blocks for the random levels need to be included.
I don't think that's going to fix the problem. Exploring game content is easy, but do all the enormous, conveniently placed buttons make you feel like you're exploring an unknown world?
What about the fact every switch, button and key is identical, no matter where you go?
Apparently, Cradle is some anomaly that creates 'slabs of alien planets'. But it doesn't feel like anything that it's described to be.
Literally, no matter how much they change the themes of levels or the amount of monsters, it won't change the fact they're just different colours to mask up that everything is linear and you're just running down differently coloured hallways on your way to a place that's still 'under construction'.
I know it's a video game, but all this stuff is right there on the front page.
Every day is just another step closer to release and I'm still confused as to what they're trying to create here.
There is only so much you can do right now with randomly generated levels
You could do a lot with them.
Aside from just adding more chunks, there needs to be more interactive set pieces.
If clockwork tunnels let you walk along the enormous cogs as they rotate, beating back maintenance bots as you try to cross to the elevator on the other side.
Or if there was moving platforms, like vertical elevators, but horizontal, that took you into a kind of rail shooter level with some big bad beasties flying around and landing on your platform.
If they incorporated more into level design beyond the current pieces with different coloured monsters, tilesets and status effect themes, the game would become a whole lot more interesting and engaging.
They're holding onto conventions from generations past, instead of working towards modernising it.
It's like they're making something generic even when they have the creative freedom (as an independent developer) to go and make something grand, beyond the scope of other dungeon crawlers and action games combined.
It's kind of a shame that you think that is the limit, when there's very clearly much more there to give.
When it ends up just having only 1 gate going to the core, it feels like I'm doing the same thing over and over.
The Gate system is very much a big picture thing. Right now, it doesn't work, the current scope just doesn't allow it to work.
But in greater numbers of both players and possible levels, the spectrum of Gates should (hopefully) change.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 19:19
#7
No matter what, you will be
No matter what, you will be doing the same thing over and over.
"Yellow" levels -- the fixed ones, like spiral court, etc -- will be repeats eventually.
Clockwork tunnels are at least all different, even if the parts are the same.
You have a choice:
1. Maze of twisty little passages, all different (CT #1)
2. Twisty maze of little passages, all different (CT #2)
3. Little maze of twisty passages, all alike (yellow floor that will be the same each time you run it).
Large amounts of little pieces, or little amounts of large pieces. Take your pick.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 19:40
#8
Oh trust me, I know there is
Oh trust me, I know there is a ton more they can add and do to it.
Just, I was referring to a much larger scope when I said that, and I wasn't very clear about it. If you are talking about a truly unique experience every time you enter a dungeon, then with our current tech, that isn't reasonable and I would say there is a limit. But if you are talking about new prefabs and various kinds of level designs, that we might see over and over again, then yes, there is tons they can add (and I sure hope they do go with some unique forms of puzzles and levels).
My other main point was that... the game is still dang fun as it is now. I would love some more content now, but I'm not feeling any discontent over a lack of content (how many more contents can I add!).
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 19:56
#9
actually...
they could make change a little the sistem in the gate creation. Instead of creating a single level, there ould e created a single group level, each one with 2 or 3 leves, that will rotate "apparently" random, mking so you almost never have a predictable run, even if you try the same gate over and over untill it's gone.
-Clockwork tunnels could be didvided in clockwork maze (more movment and timed puzzles, with more rewards based on chest drops, but less rare monster chance), clockwork gears (where the jagged gears made an excelent home to native monsters, thus having a high probability of getting rare monsters, but with less chests), and the clockwork security room (some goblins to fight, but in a compressed level, more likelly a treasure vault with a little pesky intruders...after the treasure vaults are fixed). These 3 could cicle between them without players being able to know wich one they are going, but a player could hover the mouse above the image of the group to see wich stages will be avaible for him to pick, so letting he try to get the desired level now, or wait untill the groups cicle (like floors cicle today), to try the other group. A group would never have less than 2 floors to choose, so peoplle would not have an assured level to go (unless in boss fights, that would be considered single floors).
There's a lot of things that can be done this way, and people would need to try to see what they will got, maybe making the use of a single gate very popular, if the persn want to fight an secific monster that only appears a specific level, that is easilly gotten from that specific gate.
Wed, 12/01/2010 - 23:18
#10
As always, I'm not going to say much in terms of specifics...
Just wanted to pop in and say that I appreciate the concern expressed in this thread. I'm of the strong opinion that the whole 'revolving content' system will be a major feature that sets Spiral Knights apart from the crowd, and I'm super excited to explore its potential.
The design focus right now is progression (gear advancement, etc), and as a small team, we have to keep our attention focused. You may not see movement on this stuff in the immediate future, but change is sure to come.
Thu, 12/02/2010 - 00:41
#11
Probably not raising any unknown concerns.
I'm of the strong opinion that the whole 'revolving content' system will be a major feature that sets Spiral Knights apart from the crowd, and I'm super excited to explore its potential.
I think, because the internal as well as gate cycling is completely transparent, it also takes away a lot of the mystery when it comes to entering into the Clockworks.
I'm all for the maps, but once again, it's counter-intuitive to the expected result, since people will just wait for what they want instead of rushing on.
Something needs to be done about that, eventually.
Thu, 12/02/2010 - 01:09
#12
Well, the latest gate opened,
Well, the latest gate opened, and boy is it quite diverse (And it goes to the core!) This new gate is the kind of gate I'd like to see more of, so many different areas.
Thu, 12/02/2010 - 23:25
#13
> Just wanted to pop in and
> Just wanted to pop in and say that I appreciate the concern expressed in this thread. I'm of the strong opinion that the whole 'revolving content' system will be a major feature that sets Spiral Knights apart from the crowd, and I'm super excited to explore its potential.
I understand that you aren't focusing on this right now, but please keep in mind:
Right now the progression of change of the gate connections -- the lines to the next floor on the gate map -- are predictable, and deterministic. And lacking. The lines cycle faster than the floor gears, and when the floor gear does change, so does the line. Far too often there's a wait until :15, :30, or :45 for the level you want. I've seen floors with three levels that alternate between level 1 or level 3, never going to level 2 in the middle.
I don't know the solution here. If there's a real choice as to what level you go on, people will wait for the level that they want. If different people in the party (and you really don't have control over party members by default) want different things, that's a problem, unless the party can split and reform on every level (say two people go on the elevator to this next floor, the other two stay behind for the change, and new people join in from another level on that floor or town gate).
I agree that there's potential here.
I'm just thinking that the current system is probably a placeholder at best.
I don't know what would work best.
I do think that larger theme blocks is a way to go. (Firefly, for example, gives you two floors of Aurora Isles, with a real choice at each floor.)
I do think that for most levels, CT is easier than almost all of the fixed levels at any depth -- Lichenous Lair is the only thing consistently easier than CT so far (with Graveyard varying from even easier to much harder, and that seems to depend on your weapon.)
Clockwork tunnels are currently the bane of my little pixelated knight's existence. Hopefully the red for red campaign will help create a gate that isn't the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over.