hardcore mode
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:59
The quality of SK is superb, sadly the quantity is very limited.
New content like new levels, depth, monsters, bosses, etc. are highly anticipated, but bare great efforts and time for three rings.
So my question is this: Would people be interested in a "hardcore modus" similar to the one used i diablo 2
Intent is to give players, especially the ones who already have accomplished most, to give another challenge that is seemingly easily implemented while waiting for new content.
edit:
gosh im sorry i did not explain the hardcore modus itself...as some of you have pointed out it means death = death. In SK it suppose it would work in the way that you can revive comrades, but you cannot pay energy to revive, furthermore to die in a level and not making it to the exit alive would result in the loss of the character/acc since it is dead.
As the name implies this modus would be aimed for hardcore players with skilled friends to not get wiped out ever.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:43
#2
Permanent death.
Permanent death.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:46
#3
Would this be anything like a
Would this be anything like a tier 3 danger room? Those already exist.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:47
#4
OP means when you die theres
OP means when you die theres no rez or respawn, your char is deleted.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 08:51
#5
hehe, I can already see the
hehe, I can already see the support requests for such a feature.
"HALP PLZ I GOT HACKED"
I guess the OP isn't serious about this feature? You could always delete your character yourself when you die. :P
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:03
#6
Maybe only without rez and
Maybe only without rez and without healing
Obviously not the part where your char is deleted
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:15
#7
Well that was what hardcore
Well that was what hardcore mode was in Diablo 2 if I recall correctly.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:34
#8
As edited in op i tried to
As edited in op i tried to clarify that a hardcore modus would delete your account when you die.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 09:56
#9
Screw that. I used to play
Screw that. I used to play Diablo 2, and I would get sucked into hardcore mode, only to lag 2 months into my character and die a miserable death and sulk about it for weeks, until I eventually returned. Diabloii.net used to have a hilarious listing of people who died hardcore deaths and their stories of how it would draw them back in. It made players addicted.
Edit: found it. It's slow. http://classic-web.archive.org/web/20080321021601/http://www.diabloii.ne...
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 10:48
#10
They should try hard mode
They should try hard mode bosses or something. Where you do something to activate it (like freeing ALL the spirits in the fire citadel or clearing it without dying), and it'll tweak the bosses to be even more challenging. I think hardcore mode will discourage people if someone possibly spend real money on CE to get geared out, then from one unlucky lag spike it could all disappear instantly.
EDIT: Someone beat me to lag point
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 10:07
#11
I absolutely totally agree
I absolutely totally agree with the idea from sirthinh. Doing something with no deaths or going above and beyond would be a cool way to unlock different things, and stuff like that totally depends on your skill, not your gear.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 10:48
#12
um...I don't see the point of
um...I don't see the point of this in this game...delete yourself if it means that much to you. Also, I don't know about anyone else but this lags occasionally and at worst crashes. Even if I had the skill, it's no good if your computer ends everything randomly.
As far as rewards for a mode like this, we don't even have any sort of accomplishment awards in this game that'd be much simpler (like pvp leaderboards, most minerals or something). So I doubt you'll see this any time soon if ever until they show some sort of willingness to give rewards for competitive things.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 10:51
#13
In a game where resurrecting
In a game where resurrecting and character advancement is tied to real world currency values - no. If someone spent 200 dollars equipping their character with amazing UVs and lost it all, that would just be terrible. I think if you wanted to go "No rez, no healing" mode, that would be acceptable for those wanting a challenge, though.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 11:27
#14
Well, Diablo 2 hardcore mode
Well, Diablo 2 hardcore mode just added a challenge. It had its own server, ladder, and economy. If you were level 99 in HC, you knew that person was solid since you can't just deck him out and cow/baal/tristram run all day. But since SK doesn't have any levels or ladder/leaderboard, only way to know someone was good is if they had a fang of vog or something you can't just buy. They could disable or limit buying CE in hardcore. It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it'll draw enough interest for developers to get $$ or for players to join. Since I already mentioned D2, I wanted to say I really like the hard modes like what WoW offers. They make it so hardcore raiders have something to challenge them, while the casual gamers still able to have a realistic goal too.
A basic example of what SK could do as a hard mode on Vanaduke is making him spawn more zombies, slag guards, enemies doing 15% more damage and having 15% more life, adding more fire/falling debris and more bullets during helm phase. Activating this mode could be as simple as pushing a hidden button, and the rewards for completing it is more heat/crowns + always dropping 5 (maybe more?) tokens.
About the lag, try restarting your game often. I have heard SK leaks memory and that might be what is causing your crashes? I only lag because my internet isn't very stable..
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 12:56
#15
Lag spikes don't happen too
Lag spikes don't happen too often for me, usually maybe once every other whole day session (and a session for me could be three hours, more if I take breaks)
The crashes are definitely based on memory, but generally only happen if I'm foolish enough to run Firefox and this game at the same time (but sometimes I want to check the forums, like for the friend recruitment thread, but whenever I do that, I've gotta go fast, I can only say I'm safe for about 5 minutes.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 13:13
#16
You know in depth 29? How
You know in depth 29? How that Knight dude says that he sent his scouts into the core but never came back? I bet that would be the hardcore mode of SK! I really want to checkout the Clockworks core and maybe never come back! Who knows! Maybe the Knights never returned because they found lots of life time supply of CANDY!
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 13:43
#17
Don't see a death = death
Don't see a death = death mode working out for OOO as it would likely dishearten many players, rather than encourage them to keep buying energy and feeding them money.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 14:19
#18
since ooo needs money, make
since ooo needs money, make revives cost real money, like 5$ on 1st death, 10$ 2nd, 20$ 3rd...
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 14:34
#19
They'll come up with
They'll come up with something, just give it time. The game has only been offically out for a month now.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 15:30
#20
Perma-death?
Who still considers this a good idea?
No, seriously, what about this idea appeals to people? Specifically the people I'm addressing in this thread. While I have a lot of respect for the amount of courage required in temporary art types (sand castles and the like), I never understood the draw to spending days and days logged in only to have the possibility that a bad set of circumstances could wipe away everything?
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 15:36
#21
Kaybol: "For those of us who
Kaybol: "For those of us who don't have Diablo 2 readily in memory, what would hardcode mode do?"
People who don't have Diablo 2 readily in memory don't deserve to be playing games. You have squandered the last 11 years. Sell your computer and learn to crochet.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 15:45
#22
I would play this if playing
I would play this if playing in hardcore mode allowed for faster advancement.
Not that I need to be rewarded for it, but putting in a month of effort only to scratch T2 and die would become tedious really quickly.
Alternately, don't delete the account, but give each player an item that is lost forever if they die while equipped with it. The item accumulates an infinite amount of heat, though gaining levels does nothing for it. The player who accumulates the most heat with it before perishing is declared the winner. Add some restrictions to prevent that player from playing T1 forever at no risk.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 17:34
#23
This kind of mode is not
This kind of mode is not suited to every game. From what I understand, OOO targets somewhat casual players. SK is a game where you dress up like puppies and shoot at mustachioed jell-o molds... losing three months of work in a fountain of blood seems kind of un-thematic, somehow.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 17:41
#24
I don't see SK as targeting
I don't see SK as targeting casuals. The graveyard levels and danger rooms suggest 3R is willing to put out for players looking for a more challenging. The game design contains some leeway for more casual play, but it doesn't seem like the primary intended audience.
Cute character designs do not alone determine the type of players intended to play a game. Conker's Bad Fur Day taught us this years ago.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:01
#25
I've seen this work extremely
I've seen this work extremely successfully in a game (an MMO) other than Diablo II (in fact the game drew a lot of its inspiration from the Diablo series). There was no leader board or anything, but plenty of people tried it for the challenge.
The point is its optional, so casual players can still play normal mode and have fun, while the more frequent (or 'hardcore') players have some more to do when they've finished the normal game. As sirthinh said this is how it worked in WoW and I don't see why it shouldn't working in SK.
I think it shouldn't delete the account - just the character (during the character creation there should be a checkbox to select hardcore mode). That way any CE bought would still be available on the other characters on that account. Investing CE into a hardcore character is a risk that some people are willing to take if it will earn them bragging rights so I don't see that as being to much of a problem (and as many people have pointed out you can earn enough crowns from a tier 2 run to buy yourself 100CE). If you have a problem with ME being shared then you can make hardcore and non-hardcore characters have separate mist bars.
I do agree that lag will be annoying, but if you are someone who regularly experiences lag then don't play hardcore mode.
Also something fundamental to this mode would be that hardcore characters can only trade, party etc. with other hardcore characters. (this increases difficulty and prevents mist bar abuse by having hardcore and non-hardcore characters on the same account).
PS: Hardcore characters should get a little symbol or something next to their name to denote their hardcore status.
Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:11
#26
Sure...
I like the idea of a hardcore server in addition to the language servers. I haven't bought CE yet, though I did start from early opening so I've been playing a month and a day. In another month, I'll have seen all the existing adventure content, and all that will be left is building alternate 5* sets for amusement. Of course, more content is probably (hopefully) coming, but... it is true that the game's content can be run through very quickly. People that have an edge on me by actually spending money on CE have already done everything that can be done. A hardcore server gives a new way to approach that content. It's certainly not for everybody, of course. It's really a way of replaying the game with an added challenge to spice it up. If new content comes out slowly enough, I'd likely play hardcore mode for that reason.
Of course, the competition for being the first to grab a health capsule would be severe, heh.
A twist on it would be to allow health revives as 'in game ressurection' but not allow auto-revive (when the party escapes) nor energy revives. Health revives are kind of an in-character action, after all. This would mean that death would be a whole party at a time, of course (or if your teammates callously abandon you, of course.) Soloing would then be extra-risky in a way.
My only concern is that right now you can easily be killed by a network outage, since a disconnected player still takes damage. Not too big a deal when it's so easy to revive, but in hardcore mode it would matter a lot. That would need to be redesigned, certainly.
Tue, 05/03/2011 - 01:48
#27
My only concern ...
My only concern is that right now you can easily be killed by a network outage, since a disconnected player still takes damage. Not too big a deal when it's so easy to revive, but in hardcore mode it would matter a lot. That would need to be redesigned, certainly.
And just when it was getting interesting, you decided to stop writing... redesigned how? Redesigned so that a disconnected character takes no damage? That would turn hardcore into softcore. If your character's near dying you just yank the network cable from your computer and you're saved. That's like backing up your saved games into a different directory and restoring them if you die.
The way I see hardcore described here (it's certainly not a concept I'm familiar with, but it seems to have an audience) it's definitely not for whiners. It's for people who take lag like a man. Or like a female with lots of testosterone.
So please don't stop, a suggestion would be great here.
Wed, 05/04/2011 - 08:53
#28
I could see this working a
I could see this working a couple different ways but with a few tweaks.
You could implement it like Guild Wars does (and maybe WoW?). "Hard Mode" is available after you meet certain conditions. Since SK doesn't really have a campaign/story line I'd say you have to have all 5* gear AND have beaten JK and Vanaduke since those are the only bosses at the moment. Then when you enter a gate there's an additional option of entering in Hard Mode. Hard Mode would offer better mat drops, more crowns, and heat, but all enemies act like they do in Tier 3. Enemies in Tier 1 have the equivalent damage and health of Tier 3 enemies, and they just get stronger as you go further down. Your damage of course stay the same. It is called hard mode for a reason. You can not invite people into the party that do not have access to hard mode if you are playing in hard mode.
Or you could create a separate server for the Hardcore players. Separate auction house (when implemented), guilds, and Knights. CE can still be shared between it and your regular Knights. You wouldn't be able to mail or actually interact with any Knights not on the hardcore server (to prevent you mailing your hardcore character items mostly). Your party can revive you, moving to the next floor does not and you can't revive yourself. Death and no revive means your character is deleted.
~Gwen
Wed, 05/04/2011 - 16:44
#29
Hmm. Deleting an account and
Hmm. Deleting an account and all your possessions seems excessive. But what about taking away all rewards for that run? Then, if you successfully complete the run without dying, you could get all the materials that had dropped, and some small bonus (5% more crowns and heat, for instance. Maybe more if there's a boss fight involved).
It would make dying more risky, but at the same time, not cause you to lose several months and tens or hundreds of dollars of investment in a character. (At 650 energy for a 2--->5* crafting path, a full set of tier 3 equipment costs $10, even if you spend energy on nothing else)
For those of us who don't have Diablo 2 readily in memory, what would hardcode mode do? I guess something more hardcore than Tier 3.